David Kelly tells it as it is ...(for once)

[Mauler]

Pale imitation of Thomond we know and love
NO bite, no b*****k. Bluff and bluster. Ireland may still fancy a jaunt to South Africa next year but their inaugural visit to Limerick was hardly inspiring stuff. Not to the locals more used to Hayes' heft, Rog's rockets and the raucous accompaniment from the Red Army.

It was the smell which told you something was different. A police horse unloading itself of its main meal was the first sign that Thomond Park was playing host to an altogether different occasion.

Aside from the fact they may have been better deployed directing traffic, it was unusual to hear the clodding clops of sturdy steeds steering their passage through the milling crowds outside the stadium as kick-off approached.

Soccer in Thomond Park? Well, if Rod Stewart, no mean devotee of the beautiful game himself, can strut his stuff here why not two international soccer teams? Eoin Hand finally got the chance to witness a soccer game here -- nearly 30 years after he was denied the chance to manage Limerick United at Thomond in a friendly against Spurs, a game that had to be moved to Lansdowne Road.

When you moved inside, the milling crowds were rather less milling. Society's decree, which soccer fans universally must obey, saw to it that there was no alcohol allowed for sale on the premises.

incessant

Normally at rugby occasions here, especially since the revamped stadium's re-opening 11 months ago, the match-day hype is fuelled by the incessant pre-game conjecture and controversy surrounding the many bars.

Sadly, soccer folk aren't trusted to concurrently drink and talk about football -- hence the presence of the horsey set outside the confines -- and there was a noticeably pallid nature to this friendly encounter.

Of course, that's the other thing about occasions such as these when contrasted with rugby affairs. You can't do 'friendlies' in rugby. You can't pull out of a tackle. You can't misplace a pass for fear of the unfortunate timing injuring your team-mate. And a rugby crowd can't do friendlies either.

Even the very contrived nature of how the respective games launch their proceedings illustrated the vast disparity in atmosphere created by a Thomond Park rugby crowd and last night's strangely awkward Thomond Park soccer crowd.

Rugby's kick-off immediately allows for a thunderously violent assault on the opposition's senses, and a consequently tumultuous upheaval amongst the crowd when they see their players either receiving and driving forward, or embracing the opposition's embryonic maul and forcing it to back-pedal at a furious rate of knots.

In soccer, a pair of players serenely tap the ball to each other and then, as we saw last night, proceed to concede possession to each other in double-quick time. Aside from early incisions from the wide duo of Aiden McGeady and Damien Duff -- whose maddening inconsistency would hardly be tolerated by the normally impatient Munster faithful in their rugby heroes -- there was little for the crowd to enthuse about on a balmy, dry evening.

When Robbie Keane waves his hand in phantom defiance of a decision that has gone against him, he looks faintly feminine when compared to rugby players used to obeying the referee's whistle even though they may have lost two front teeth and a tuft of hair.

Last November's earth-shuddering clash between a Munster and and All Blacks second string was one of the sporting occasions of the year, the bone-crushing intensity of it spiralling emotions to rapturous heights only seen during the famous storied sequence of Heineken Cup matches played here. Sale, Gloucester, Wasps, Clermont.

In the Irish soccer team's defence, Munster's early efforts in the revamped stadium -- and those of their supporters -- were suitably unnerved in the early throes of last season, particularly on lacklustre occasions against Montauban in their opening Heineken Cup fixture, when only a late Ronan O'Gara penalty saved the then defending champions' blushes.

When Munster were caned here by Ulster during the Christmas holidays, their coach Tony McGahan wondered whether the stadium was a bit too comforting now for opponents; thankfully their Heineken Cup obliteration, mentally and physically, of the Ospreys later firmly disabused us of this notion.

With South Africa due here in September -- the all-conquering Springboks will hold more interest when they visit Croke Park a month later -- soccer will be a regular occurrence in these parts which, apart from adding to the roster of Irish stadia the FAI have been forced to rent down the days, also serves to belatedly reacquaint the rest of the country with international football.

This was the only the third international to be held outside of the capital and, intriguingly, not the first to take place at the home of rugby either.

Being the FAI, they once laid claim to the turf at the Mardyke in court but, through the proverbial type of mis-management which was often their hallmark -- some charge it remains stubbornly so -- that venue was lost to the oval ball game just as Flower Lodge followed the same ignominious passage.

Seventy years ago, the magisterial Hungarian side, fresh from their 1938 World Cup final appearance against Italy, shacked up in the Mardyke and special match-day trains ferried supporters from Dublin, Waterford and Limerick.

Ireland snatched a creditable 2-2 draw thanks to a late Jackie Carey goal; the Hungarians, perhaps in tune with the rugby spirit of things, had only nine men on the field at the final whistle.

It took another 46 years for the FAI to decamp to the provinces. Forming part of the Cork 800 celebrations, Spain, who had denied Hand's side a berth at the 1984 European Championships, were invited to Flower Lodge -- now of course, the Lodge is Pairc Ui Rinn and firmly within the control of the GAA, who gleefully seized on yet another FAI mishap when it comes to their painful, historic association with stadium construction and retention.

The game, denied the services of Manchester United and Liverpool players, who formed the backbone of the Irish team, ended in a timid scoreless draw. Friendly matches were seemingly unenthusiastically staged even a generation ago.

The legendary Limerick stalwart Al Finucane was wheeled out to give the occasion a suitably local sense of colour. "Now that we have this magnificent stadium, we hope to have many more international matches here," said Finucane when presented to the crowd before the match by an over-enthusiastic local radio DJ.

Asked to enthuse about the state of Limerick soccer, Finucane politely demurred, much to the embarrassment of the blazers: "No, it's not in a good state unfortunately."

Next came Packie Bonner, the FAI's technical director, who revealed somewhat surprisingly that the players -- including McGeady, who had moaned about getting lost on his way to the south-east earlier in the week -- would retain the memories of their stay in this part of the country for their lifetime. One sensed he protested too much.

Bonner, clearly too late to affect the hitherto sluggish sales pitch, then suggested that the evening's crowd would produce an atmosphere to top anything witnessed in Croke Park -- not a bad shout, in truth -- or, much more incredibly, Lansdowne Road. After all that, a lie-down may have been in order.

realities

Earlier in the day, the FAI, like Liam Carroll unable to attach economic realities to their potential revenue streams (anyone for an Aviva Stadium Vantage seat, now?), had allowed 3,000 schoolboy tickets to be delivered into a marketplace scarcely hungry for an Australia team featuring not Matt Giteau, the world's best rugby out-half, but Matt, er, Spiranovic.

At least it had the effect of pushing the attendance into the early 20,000s, in essence a realistic attendance for a gig such as this, especially given the ridiculously over-priced tickets; much was made in the Shannon clubhouse of the vast discrepancy between the cost of watching Munster or Ireland, compared to an as yet unproven Irish team, whose stock has been of the laughing variety until the expensively acquired and composed Il Trap.

Il Trap's conservative approach did little to enthrall the locals though, save the odd intervention from the front four, and there was little of the magical awe inspired by a Keith Earls break or a Paul O'Connell surge.

Need to know any more? Ireland were booed off at half-time. That never happens Munster. This was Thomond Park. But not as we know it.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/ ... 58589.html

[ronk]

What a load of rubbish.

I prefer rugby but I don't have to put other sports down to enjoy it. What exactly is the point in moaning about how you don't see the attraction of a popular sport you're being paid to cover. Other people paid good money to see the game. I'd much rather hear from them than lazy hacks.

Yes, the FAI are an administrative shambles, but what has that got to do with a soccer friendly in Thomand Park (a good idea). No point kicking them just because rugby is on a high while soccer is on a low.

Alcohol and soccer do mix. The fact that beer wasn't available at the game was as much to do with (possibly excessive) caution because of the unfamiliar audience and deficiencies in Thomand Park.

In England it's easy to get a pint at a game. I recall it being quite easy with more bars available last time I was at a game. In Murrayfield and Twickenham you can have a drink while watching the match, you couldn't in Lansdowne Road and you can't in Croker. Are they better, more responsible fans?

Perhaps one of the reasons the atmosphere wasn't as good was that fans were put off by the fact that booze wasn't allowed, for once.

[gfo]

what a terrible article. just a load of tosh abusing the irish soccer team and its fans

arsehole

[Mauler]

what a terrible article. just a load of tosh abusing the irish soccer team and its fans

arsehole

b*%&!cks - he is spot on. Its a joke of a past time (would not consider it a real sport). It should be banned!

[Avenger]

b*%&!cks - he is spot on. Its a joke of a past time (would not consider it a real sport). It should be banned!

Whether you like it or not, football is the most popular sport in the world. An estimated 3.5 billion people either watch or play football.
Take off the blinkers

[Mauler]

b*%&!cks - he is spot on. Its a joke of a past time (would not consider it a real sport). It should be banned!

Whether you like it or not, football is the most popular sport in the world. An estimated 3.5 billion people either watch or play football.
Take off the blinkers

Fishing is actually. But it does not change the fact that I personally would rather watch paint dry than watch 90 minutes of hair dressers feigning injury, imitating Greg Louganis or faintly feminine looking players like Robbie Keane waving their arms in the air. If 3.5 billion people are foolish enough to waste their time on these imposters and posers then fair play to them. But it aint for me.

[ronk]

b*%&!cks - he is spot on. Its a joke of a past time (would not consider it a real sport). It should be banned!

Whether you like it or not, football is the most popular sport in the world. An estimated 3.5 billion people either watch or play football.
Take off the blinkers

Fishing is actually. But it does not change the fact that I personally would rather watch paint dry than watch 90 minutes of hair dressers feigning injury, imitating Greg Louganis or faintly feminine looking players like Robbie Keane waving their arms in the air. If 3.5 billion people are foolish enough to waste their time on these imposters and posers then fair play to them. But it aint for me.

http://forum.leinsterfans.com/viewtopic ... 4&start=80

[Mauler]

http://forum.leinsterfans.com/viewtopic ... 4&start=80

Agreed, and look how my sport has dealt with cheating. Handing down an initial one year ban on a player who was found guilty of cheating, fining the club €250,000 (increased to €300,000 on appeal) or the equivalent of €25m in relative terms compared to turn over of Merchandise United. And as we know, the ERC subsequently banned the coach Dean Richards, a former two time H Cup winning coach & England International for 3 years. My sport takes cheating seriously. Compare this to the 6 game ban UEFA handed down to Didier Drogba and the four game ban on José Bosingwa for abusing and threatening the ref. Or what about the Liverfool player El Hadji Diouf who got a measly two match ban for spitting at Celtic fans? Or AC Milan’s Dida also banned for only two games after he faked injury when a Celtic fan tapped him gently on the forehead. So if you want to compare the two sports, then I'm afraid, the only thing they have in common is that both are played on grass.

[Slipper1]

http://forum.leinsterfans.com/viewtopic ... 4&start=80

Agreed, and look how my sport has dealt with cheating. Handing down an initial one year ban on a player who was found guilty of cheating, fining the club €250,000 (increased to €300,000 on appeal) or the equivalent of €25m in relative terms compared to turn over of Merchandise United. And as we know, the ERC subsequently banned the coach Dean Richards, a former two time H Cup winning coach & England International for 3 years. My sport takes cheating seriously. Compare this to the 6 game ban UEFA handed down to Didier Drogba and the four game ban on José Bosingwa for abusing and threatening the ref. Or what about the Liverfool player El Hadji Diouf who got a measly two match ban for spitting at Celtic fans? Or AC Milan’s Dida also banned for only two games after he faked injury when a Celtic fan tapped him gently on the forehead. So if you want to compare the two sports, then I'm afraid, the only thing they have in common is that both are played on grass.

We've been known to play on sand sometimes.

[olaf the fat]

http://forum.leinsterfans.com/viewtopic ... 4&start=80

Agreed, and look how my sport has dealt with cheating. Handing down an initial one year ban on a player who was found guilty of cheating, fining the club €250,000 (increased to €300,000 on appeal) or the equivalent of €25m in relative terms compared to turn over of Merchandise United. And as we know, the ERC subsequently banned the coach Dean Richards, a former two time H Cup winning coach & England International for 3 years. My sport takes cheating seriously. Compare this to the 6 game ban UEFA handed down to Didier Drogba and the four game ban on José Bosingwa for abusing and threatening the ref. Or what about the Liverfool player El Hadji Diouf who got a measly two match ban for spitting at Celtic fans? Or AC Milan’s Dida also banned for only two games after he faked injury when a Celtic fan tapped him gently on the forehead. So if you want to compare the two sports, then I'm afraid, the only thing they have in common is that both are played on grass.

Jeez Mauler, you do know a fair bit about puff ball

I am on the Mauler side of the wall on this one- God damn boring game
But Kelly is only doing a tom humpries on it

[gfo]

like football or not, its still an insulting article

[ronk]

http://forum.leinsterfans.com/viewtopic ... 4&start=80

Agreed, and look how my sport has dealt with cheating. Handing down an initial one year ban on a player who was found guilty of cheating, fining the club €250,000 (increased to €300,000 on appeal) or the equivalent of €25m in relative terms compared to turn over of Merchandise United. And as we know, the ERC subsequently banned the coach Dean Richards, a former two time H Cup winning coach & England International for 3 years. My sport takes cheating seriously. Compare this to the 6 game ban UEFA handed down to Didier Drogba and the four game ban on José Bosingwa for abusing and threatening the ref. Or what about the Liverfool player El Hadji Diouf who got a measly two match ban for spitting at Celtic fans? Or AC Milan’s Dida also banned for only two games after he faked injury when a Celtic fan tapped him gently on the forehead. So if you want to compare the two sports, then I'm afraid, the only thing they have in common is that both are played on grass.

Or compare it to what Burger, Quinlan, Parisse got.

It's unusual for incidents like the Quins one being punished at all. It seems that it was the fifth time during Richards' career this has happened.

Nevertheless, this is all irrelevant as to which sport is better. The article itself misses the point. Rugby should be enjoyed for what it is rather than because it's an alternative to soccer.

It would be rude to go to a hockey match and bleat on about how much better hurling is (or vice-versa). That sort of attitude is not something that I want to see associated with rugby. Are we, as fans, that petty and small-minded. That article did more damage to the image of rugby than it did to the image of soccer. Those players put on an Irish jersey and represent Ireland. I don't want to see any Irish sports teams fail, whether it be soccer, boxing or archery. That applies whether I have any knowledge or interest in the sport.

[Mauler]

like football or not, its still an insulting article

What was even more insulting was that my sports home ground was torn up in a riot in Feb'95 by Puffball fans. When St. Patrick's Athletic play Steaua Bucharest in the away leg of their Europa Cup play-off in a couple of weeks, the game will be played behind close doors because of crowd disturbances over there. And its not too long ago that Bohemians supporters were arrested and sentenced to 3 months in jail for smashing up a pub in Derry. In short, if puffball fans cant be trusted to behave themselves, then they should treated as they are, the Garda are right to police them as they do, and ban alcohol from the grounds. Failing that, the past-time should be banned completely.

[Mauler]

Or compare it to what Burger, Quinlan, Parisse got.

It's unusual for incidents like the Quins one being punished at all. It seems that it was the fifth time during Richards' career this has happened.

Nevertheless, this is all irrelevant as to which sport is better. The article itself misses the point. Rugby should be enjoyed for what it is rather than because it's an alternative to soccer.

It would be rude to go to a hockey match and bleat on about how much better hurling is (or vice-versa). That sort of attitude is not something that I want to see associated with rugby. Are we, as fans, that petty and small-minded. That article did more damage to the image of rugby than it did to the image of soccer. Those players put on an Irish jersey and represent Ireland. I don't want to see any Irish sports teams fail, whether it be soccer, boxing or archery. That applies whether I have any knowledge or interest in the sport.

Burger, Quinlan and Parrisse committed acts of foul play. Neil Best got 18 weeks for the same act. And they all got banned for varying amounts of time. Quinlan missed out on a Lions Tour for his actions. The did not try to pervert the outcome of the game. Richards got 3 years and may get more if and when the ERC pass on their report to the RFU who govern the other competitions which Quins participate in - Guinness Premiership / Anglo Welsh Cup.

David Kelly was a football journalist first, who then turned to covering rugby. Much the same way as Gerry Thornley moved in the opposite direction. Kelly was commenting on the atmosphere in Thomond, the lack of commitment and passion shown by both supporters and players and the difference in the way the crowd is treated at football and rugby (or indeed GAA games). And if you want to defend the actions of sections of the Irish supporters who also support Leeds who booed Kewell due to his decision to move to Galatasaray or when Peter Madsen was mistakenly announced as Lovenkrands over the Lansdowne Road PA system and his every touch was loudly booed by the Shake a Shamrock Re-Pub-A-Lick-A-Oir-Land intelligentsia who thought he played for Rangers then that’s up to you. But it’s a sport which I really don’t want anything to do with, and I could not care one way or the other if they win lose or draw.

[tones]

Or compare it to what Burger, Quinlan, Parisse got.

It's unusual for incidents like the Quins one being punished at all. It seems that it was the fifth time during Richards' career this has happened.

Nevertheless, this is all irrelevant as to which sport is better. The article itself misses the point. Rugby should be enjoyed for what it is rather than because it's an alternative to soccer.

It would be rude to go to a hockey match and bleat on about how much better hurling is (or vice-versa). That sort of attitude is not something that I want to see associated with rugby. Are we, as fans, that petty and small-minded. That article did more damage to the image of rugby than it did to the image of soccer. Those players put on an Irish jersey and represent Ireland. I don't want to see any Irish sports teams fail, whether it be soccer, boxing or archery. That applies whether I have any knowledge or interest in the sport.

Burger, Quinlan and Parrisse committed acts of foul play. Neil Best got 18 weeks for the same act. And they all got banned for varying amounts of time. Quinlan missed out on a Lions Tour for his actions. The did not try to pervert the outcome of the game. Richards got 3 years and may get more if and when the ERC pass on their report to the RFU who govern the other competitions which Quins participate in - Guinness Premiership / Anglo Welsh Cup.

David Kelly was a football journalist first, who then turned to covering rugby. Much the same way as Gerry Thornley moved in the opposite direction. Kelly was commenting on the atmosphere in Thomond, the lack of commitment and passion shown by both supporters and players and the difference in the way the crowd is treated at football and rugby (or indeed GAA games). And if you want to defend the actions of sections of the Irish supporters who also support Leeds who booed Kewell due to his decision to move to Galatasaray or when Peter Madsen was mistakenly announced as Lovenkrands over the Lansdowne Road PA system and his every touch was loudly booed by the Shake a Shamrock Re-Pub-A-Lick-A-Oir-Land intelligentsia who thought he played for Rangers then that’s up to you. But it’s a sport which I really don’t want anything to do with, and I could not care one way or the other if they win lose or draw.

Exactly my sentiments. While the bans highlighted in a rather desperate attempt were not stringent enough, I could not imagine a soccer organisation dealing with something like that. Take Joey Barton for example.
Our sport has problems - every sport does, however, we definitely still are far better off than that of soccer and command alot more respect. Chatting to people who know a bit of sport, definitiely have a more positive image of rugby and their followers. Some would not feel comfortable in the surroundings of soccer fans. And English co-worker commented on his amazement at the atmosphere at the HC semi-final recently in comparison to his experiences of growing up around soccer matches and hooligans. He was amazed and pleasantly so.