BOD 2nd Greatest Irish Sportsmen Ever

for discussion of other sports

Moderator: moderators

BOD 2nd Greatest Irish Sportsmen Ever

Postby Cianostays » January 1st, 2010, 6:36 pm

According to the RTE poll here's the list:

1st Padraig Harrington (Golf)
2nd Brian O'Driscoll (Rugby and LEGEND)
3rd Joey Dunlop (Motorsport)
4th George Best (Soccer)
5th Roy Keane (Soccer)
6th Sean Kelly (Cycling)
7th Sonia O'Sullivan (Athletics)
8th Christy Ring (Hurling)
9th Vincent O'Brien (Horse Racing)
10th Paul McGrath (Soccer)

He's in some pretty, pretty decent company there. A fitting testament to the great man :clap:
The sport that unites Catholic, Protestant and dissenter has had its day of days. Pity anybody who can't enjoy it. Some day.

Gerry Thornley 23/3/09. 'Nuff said.
Cianostays
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2803
Joined: April 20th, 2008, 1:48 pm
Location: Blackrock/Croke Park

Re: BOD 2nd Greatest Irish Sportsmen Ever

Postby Donald » January 1st, 2010, 7:10 pm

BOD deserves to be in that list but 6 of the names in the top ten are a joke. And not one Gaelic footballer!! Another silly poll to get people like me annoyed. No problem with BOD or Harrington tho. Two guys and great sportsmen and great role models for kids
Come live with me in SEALAND!!
User avatar
Donald
Mullet
 
Posts: 1168
Joined: October 8th, 2006, 9:51 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: BOD 2nd Greatest Irish Sportsmen Ever

Postby outcast eddie » January 1st, 2010, 7:15 pm

Delighted to see "yer maun" in the top ten but number 3?

Where's Willie John Mc B? An outrage!
The odds are good but the goods are odd.
User avatar
outcast eddie
Enlightened
 
Posts: 822
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 9:45 pm

Re: BOD 2nd Greatest Irish Sportsmen Ever

Postby Cianostays » January 1st, 2010, 7:16 pm

Donald wrote:BOD deserves to be in that list but 6 of the names in the top ten are a joke. And not one Gaelic footballer!! Another silly poll to get people like me annoyed. No problem with BOD or Harrington tho. Two guys and great sportsmen and great role models for kids


I was kind of surprised that Mick O'Dwyer wasn't there. Who are your 6 joke names? Dunlop, Kelly and O'Brien are from sports that I'm not that familiar with but their records in their respective sports are Incredible.
The sport that unites Catholic, Protestant and dissenter has had its day of days. Pity anybody who can't enjoy it. Some day.

Gerry Thornley 23/3/09. 'Nuff said.
Cianostays
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2803
Joined: April 20th, 2008, 1:48 pm
Location: Blackrock/Croke Park

Re: BOD 2nd Greatest Irish Sportsmen Ever

Postby tackle-bag » January 1st, 2010, 7:36 pm

My assessment would be as follows:-

1st Padraig Harrington (Golf) - Probably fair enough, definitely deserves to be in the top 3.

2nd Brian O'Driscoll (Rugby) - Could easily be number 1, definitely deserves to be in the top 3.

3rd Joey Dunlop (Motorsport) - Not really a sport in my opinion, but I'm sure people will argue otherwise.

4th George Best (Soccer) - An obvious choice.

5th Roy Keane (Soccer) - Grand.

6th Sean Kelly (Cycling) - Lucky enough to be included, the fact that he never won Le Tour (cycling's biggest prize by a country mile) really weighs against him - Roche could easily have been included instead.

7th Sonia O'Sullivan (Athletics) - Never won Olympic Gold, didn't truly dominate her sport in the way she was portrayed in the programme. Has no place in the list in my opinion, especially in light of the fact that she switched her affiliation to Australia towards the end of her career.

8th Christy Ring (Hurling) - Fair enough, DJ Carey could easily have been in here were more than 1 hurler included.

9th Vincent O'Brien (Horse Racing) - Not an athlete/sportsman. Has no place in the list. Good breeders are essentially just good businessmen. You might as well have Dermot Desmond/JP McManus in the list on the basis of all of their successful sporting investments.

10th Paul McGrath (Soccer) - Fair enough, although I thought Liam Brady was unlucky not to make the list.

In light of that list, I would say the following could consider themselves unlucky to miss out: Willie John McBride, Jack Kyle, Paul O'Connell, Keith Wood, Stephen Roche, Ronnie Delaney, Liam Brady, DJ Carey, Henry Shefflin, Pat Spillane, Mick O'Dwyer, Mick O'Connell, Jack O'Shea, Peter Canavan, Tony McCoy, Ruby Walsh, Richard Dunwoody, Steve Collins, Denis Taylor and Ken Doherty.
"Hickie, scorching down the wing... God, I've missed saying that!" - Ryle Nugent
User avatar
tackle-bag
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2971
Joined: March 25th, 2007, 2:48 pm

Re: BOD 2nd Greatest Irish Sportsmen Ever

Postby Grumpy Old Man » January 1st, 2010, 7:38 pm

Is Vincent O'Brien a sportsman? Was he ever a jockey?
A proud Winsome Fluter
User avatar
Grumpy Old Man
Rob Kearney
 
Posts: 6618
Joined: February 22nd, 2006, 4:22 pm
Location: Home for the Slightly Bewildered

Re: BOD 2nd Greatest Irish Sportsmen Ever

Postby Cianostays » January 1st, 2010, 7:44 pm

tackle-bag wrote:My assessment would be as follows:-

1st Padraig Harrington (Golf) - Probably fair enough, definitely deserves to be in the top 3.

2nd Brian O'Driscoll (Rugby) - Could easily be number 1, definitely deserves to be in the top 3.

3rd Joey Dunlop (Motorsport) - Not really a sport in my opinion, but I'm sure people will argue otherwise.

4th George Best (Soccer) - An obvious choice.

5th Roy Keane (Soccer) - Grand.

6th Sean Kelly (Cycling) - Lucky enough to be included, the fact that he never won Le Tour (cycling's biggest prize by a country mile) really weighs against him - Roche could easily have been included instead.

7th Sonia O'Sullivan (Athletics) - Never won Olympic Gold, didn't truly dominate her sport in the way she was portrayed in the programme. Has no place in the list in my opinion, especially in light of the fact that she switched her affiliation to Australia towards the end of her career.

8th Christy Ring (Hurling) - Fair enough, DJ Carey could easily have been in here were more than 1 hurler included.

9th Vincent O'Brien (Horse Racing) - Not an athlete/sportsman. Has no place in the list. Good breeders are essentially just good businessmen. You might as well have Dermot Desmond/JP McManus in the list on the basis of all of their successful sporting investments.

10th Paul McGrath (Soccer) - Fair enough, although I thought Liam Brady was unlucky not to make the list.

In light of that list, I would say the following could consider themselves unlucky to miss out: Willie John McBride, Jack Kyle, Paul O'Connell, Keith Wood, Stephen Roche, Ronnie Delaney, Liam Brady, DJ Carey, Henry Shefflin, Pat Spillane, Mick O'Dwyer, Mick O'Connell, Jack O'Shea, Peter Canavan, Tony McCoy, Ruby Walsh, Richard Dunwoody, Steve Collins, Denis Taylor and Ken Doherty.



Very interesting comments. About Dunlop, I'd tend to agree but he was sensational at what he did. Sonia O'Sullivan was a world champion on the track and the grass and there aren't too many of them about so I'd have her in there. O'Brien was also a world class trainer as well as breeder so maybe a bit harsh on him. The rest of your comments, I'd agree with.
The sport that unites Catholic, Protestant and dissenter has had its day of days. Pity anybody who can't enjoy it. Some day.

Gerry Thornley 23/3/09. 'Nuff said.
Cianostays
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2803
Joined: April 20th, 2008, 1:48 pm
Location: Blackrock/Croke Park

Re: BOD 2nd Greatest Irish Sportsmen Ever

Postby Vamos los azules » January 1st, 2010, 7:49 pm

Vincent O'Brien had huge success and trained some exceptionally good racehorses and has topped a number polls within racing circles for best/most influential and such like - he'd have got a lot of votes from people who follow racing. I'd have him in there before Sonia O'Sullivan.

Mind you, if we're counting sportsmen from the the North as apparently we are with Joey Dunlop and George Best I'd have Tony McCoy in there while we're talking horse racing. Ok most of his success has been over in the UK, but to ride over 3,000 winners and never not been champion jockey in 14 odd years is phenomenal. And he does it all while surviving on not much more than a lettuce leaf a day.
"You can’t defend like the boss one week and the cookie man the next".
User avatar
Vamos los azules
Mullet
 
Posts: 1836
Joined: April 15th, 2009, 11:17 pm

Re: BOD 2nd Greatest Irish Sportsmen Ever

Postby sarah_lennon » January 1st, 2010, 9:12 pm

Paul McGrath is fair enough but Sonia O'Sullivan - the World Champion is not?? Sheesh


Sports "People" by the way
Ici, ici, c'est Dublin 4
User avatar
sarah_lennon
Leo Cullen
 
Posts: 15361
Joined: April 19th, 2006, 4:14 pm

Re: BOD 2nd Greatest Irish Sportsmen Ever

Postby Bleu » January 1st, 2010, 9:46 pm

tackle-bag wrote:My assessment would be as follows:-

3rd Joey Dunlop (Motorsport) - Not really a sport in my opinion, but I'm sure people will argue otherwise.

7th Sonia O'Sullivan (Athletics) - Never won Olympic Gold, didn't truly dominate her sport in the way she was portrayed in the programme. Has no place in the list in my opinion, especially in light of the fact that she switched her affiliation to Australia towards the end of her career.

.


Can't believe such ignorant comments on two really outstanding Irish sports people. Obviously we could debate all day who should be in the top ten, but not, surely, on the basis of the total dismissal of one sport and some pathetic post-colonial inferiority sh!t about one of our greatest athletes ever. Shame.
User avatar
Bleu
Bookworm
 
Posts: 146
Joined: January 29th, 2007, 8:34 pm

Re: BOD 2nd Greatest Irish Sportsmen Ever

Postby Flakey 15 » January 1st, 2010, 9:52 pm

Would have to agree concerning Vincent O'Brien should'nt really be on the list, and also Sonia O'Sullivan is a bit much, what about the following - John Treacy (twice world cross country champion) Eamon Coughlan (world champion 5000 and dominated indoor mile for years, and certainly Ronnie Delaney (Olympic Champion) others spring to mind as we are including the north seemingly why no Alex Higgins, and no boxers (?) Stephen Collins, Barry McGuigan,Dave Macaulay,Wayne McCullough, all world champions...no Stephen Roche- World Champion, Tour de France and Italy all in one season (?) don't really worry about the GAA only having Rusty Ring there as I believe to be great you should obstensibly be proving yourself against the rest of the world,...anyway these lists are always rot anyway, Happy New Year everyone. :wink:
User avatar
Flakey 15
Bookworm
 
Posts: 201
Joined: April 19th, 2008, 10:34 pm

Re: BOD 2nd Greatest Irish Sportsmen Ever

Postby ceemec » January 2nd, 2010, 12:11 am

tackle-bag wrote:6th Sean Kelly (Cycling) - Lucky enough to be included, the fact that he never won Le Tour (cycling's biggest prize by a country mile) really weighs against him - Roche could easily have been included instead.


Kelly was one of the greatest cyclists ever regardless of nationality. Roche's fame is largely on the back of one exceptional year. Over their careers though, Roche doesn't come close to Kelly. He was ranked No. 1 in the world for several years in what is arguably the most physically demanding sport on earth and is second in the all time list of total race wins. If cycling had a higher profile he'd be top 3 and deservedly so.
Last edited by ceemec on January 2nd, 2010, 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
ceemec
Rob Kearney
 
Posts: 6794
Joined: April 23rd, 2006, 7:08 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: BOD 2nd Greatest Irish Sportsmen Ever

Postby Mackman15 » January 2nd, 2010, 1:03 am

Am i alone in thinking that to have made room for Stephen Roche on the list would suggest that there should have been room also for Michelle Smith given here three golds?

The absence of Willie John, Eamonn Coughlan, Mike Gibson, Ronnie Delaney, DJ.
The reality is that there is a heavily weighted bias towards those either currently participating or retired in the last 5-10 yrs.
"Since coming back to Ireland, Leinster really has become my home.............." Leinster & Ireland's No. 1 THP
User avatar
Mackman15
Mullet
 
Posts: 1669
Joined: May 7th, 2009, 5:49 pm
Location: Usually fringing the offside line

Re: BOD 2nd Greatest Irish Sportsmen Ever

Postby CiaranIrl » January 2nd, 2010, 2:43 am

It was voted on by the public, so it can't be "wrong". These things are always skewed by a sport's popularity
“As you all know first prize is a Cadillac El Dorado. Anyone wanna see second prize? Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is you're fired.”
User avatar
CiaranIrl
Malcolm O'Kelly
 
Posts: 3278
Joined: April 27th, 2009, 11:23 am
Location: Dun Laoghaire

Re: BOD 2nd Greatest Irish Sportsmen Ever

Postby Cianostays » January 2nd, 2010, 10:58 am

CiaranIrl wrote:It was voted on by the public, so it can't be "wrong". These things are always skewed by a sport's popularity


I agree with your first point but I think the fact that in the top 3 you have golf, rugby and motorsport as opposed to soccer or football would suggest that a significant proportion of people didn't simply follow their favourite sport.
The sport that unites Catholic, Protestant and dissenter has had its day of days. Pity anybody who can't enjoy it. Some day.

Gerry Thornley 23/3/09. 'Nuff said.
Cianostays
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2803
Joined: April 20th, 2008, 1:48 pm
Location: Blackrock/Croke Park

Re: BOD 2nd Greatest Irish Sportsmen Ever

Postby fourthirtythree » January 2nd, 2010, 12:37 pm

tackle-bag wrote:6th Sean Kelly (Cycling) - Lucky enough to be included, the fact that he never won Le Tour (cycling's biggest prize by a country mile) really weighs against him - Roche could easily have been included instead.



Well, not so much for people that follow cycling. Plus Roche's career was a little more tainted with suspicion than his. Obviously they were all at it. Kelly must be the last sprinter to be up in the running for the general category in the tour though. He also has a much longer and better career than Roche. Nowadays it's all about the behemoth tour rather than the Giro and Vuelta but back in Merckx's day his sponsors made him cycle them rather than the tour so it hasn't always been like that,
Kelly is the greater cyclist. Roche has his Tour. You couldn't have both of them on the list so they plumped for one.
Datta: what have we given?
My friend, blood shaking my heart
The awful daring of a moment's surrender
Which an age of prudence can never retract
What the thunder said to Brian Lenihan
User avatar
fourthirtythree
Devin Toner
 
Posts: 9155
Joined: April 12th, 2008, 11:33 pm
Location: Eight miles high

Re: BOD 2nd Greatest Irish Sportsmen Ever

Postby Hornet » January 2nd, 2010, 5:30 pm

Bleu wrote:
tackle-bag wrote:My assessment would be as follows:-

3rd Joey Dunlop (Motorsport) - Not really a sport in my opinion, but I'm sure people will argue otherwise.

7th Sonia O'Sullivan (Athletics) - Never won Olympic Gold, didn't truly dominate her sport in the way she was portrayed in the programme. Has no place in the list in my opinion, especially in light of the fact that she switched her affiliation to Australia towards the end of her career.

.


Can't believe such ignorant comments on two really outstanding Irish sports people. Obviously we could debate all day who should be in the top ten, but not, surely, on the basis of the total dismissal of one sport and some pathetic post-colonial inferiority sh!t about one of our greatest athletes ever. Shame.


+1 :clap: :clap: :clap:
"The one thing we learn from History, is that we never learn from History".
Hornet
Mullet
 
Posts: 1969
Joined: January 21st, 2007, 8:48 pm
Location: 32,000 feet over Liverpool

Re: BOD 2nd Greatest Irish Sportsmen Ever

Postby dipper » January 2nd, 2010, 7:01 pm

fourthirtythree wrote:
tackle-bag wrote:6th Sean Kelly (Cycling) - Lucky enough to be included, the fact that he never won Le Tour (cycling's biggest prize by a country mile) really weighs against him - Roche could easily have been included instead.



Well, not so much for people that follow cycling. Plus Roche's career was a little more tainted with suspicion than his. Obviously they were all at it. Kelly must be the last sprinter to be up in the running for the general category in the tour though. He also has a much longer and better career than Roche. Nowadays it's all about the behemoth tour rather than the Giro and Vuelta but back in Merckx's day his sponsors made him cycle them rather than the tour so it hasn't always been like that,
Kelly is the greater cyclist. Roche has his Tour. You couldn't have both of them on the list so they plumped for one.


Kelly took home the Sprints jersey 4 time on the Tour de France and 4 times on the Vuelta. He also finished top 10 overall four times on the tour and won the vuelta. It is absolutely unheard of for a sprinter to be that good on the overall classifications on a big tour race. He is generally regrded as the greatest classic rider of all time having won the Paris-Nice 7 times in a row. Most cycling experts place him in the top 10 riders of all time. Definitely deserves top 10 in our sporting greats.
User avatar
dipper
Knowledgeable
 
Posts: 382
Joined: April 14th, 2009, 10:22 pm
Location: Manila, Philippines

Re: BOD 2nd Greatest Irish Sportsmen Ever

Postby tackle-bag » January 2nd, 2010, 7:02 pm

Bleu wrote:
tackle-bag wrote:My assessment would be as follows:-

3rd Joey Dunlop (Motorsport) - Not really a sport in my opinion, but I'm sure people will argue otherwise.

7th Sonia O'Sullivan (Athletics) - Never won Olympic Gold, didn't truly dominate her sport in the way she was portrayed in the programme. Has no place in the list in my opinion, especially in light of the fact that she switched her affiliation to Australia towards the end of her career.

.


Can't believe such ignorant comments on two really outstanding Irish sports people. Obviously we could debate all day who should be in the top ten, but not, surely, on the basis of the total dismissal of one sport and some pathetic post-colonial inferiority sh!t about one of our greatest athletes ever. Shame.


What the hell is ignorant about those comments!?

In respect of Dunlop, I'm saying that I don't believe motor racing (of any kind) to be sport in the true sense of the word. I've also conceded that the issue is up for debate and people are clearly entitled to their opinion. From my perspective, success in motor racing depends massively on external factors which have nothing to do with the so-called sportsman's ability. Take Schumacher, probably the most talented F1 driver of all time - he had a period in his career where he fared poorly not because his competitors were even close to him in terms of ability, but rather because his car wasn't up to scratch. Sure, the cream does rise to the top to a large extent but the idea that in a given season, a team's engineering or budget can catapult their drivers above the all-time greats negates the appeal of motor racing for me.

As for Sonia, I fully accept that she was a great athlete. Nothing I have stated runs contrary to that. However, I think she is probably our most over-rated sportsperson. They portrayed her as being utterly dominant in her field during the programme but her failure to win Olympic Gold exposes this for the rubbish that it is. At any time in her career, there were always one or two people who were at least as good if not better than her, yet Jimmy Magee et al. were trying to portray her as the Gebreselassie of women's athletics. In terms of my remark about her declaration for Australia, I fully stand over that. Sonia received hundreds of thousands in grants and funding from the Irish Sports Council over the years, money that came directly from tax-payers like you and me. In those circumstances, I think it was wholely inappropriate for her to simply decide that she had gotten as much as she wanted from competing for Ireland, and to switch her allegiances to Australia instead.
"Hickie, scorching down the wing... God, I've missed saying that!" - Ryle Nugent
User avatar
tackle-bag
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2971
Joined: March 25th, 2007, 2:48 pm

Re: BOD 2nd Greatest Irish Sportsmen Ever

Postby Bleu » January 2nd, 2010, 8:14 pm

Tackle-bag.

Joey Dunlop was not just successful for one or two seasons on the back of a good bike - he had an extraordinary record over his career in motorcycling and is widely recognised as one of the greatest motorcyclists, and probably the greatest road racer, of all time. So yes indeed, as you say, the cream does rise to the top over time and there is no doubt that he was it. He fully deserves to be considered as one of our greatest sports people (note "sports people" - it's not restricted to athletes) ever.

As to Sonia, it's hard to know where to start. You seem to imply that only Irish people who win Olympic Gold should be considered: it would be a mighty short list. Apparently an Olympic silver is not good enough and her world and european golds at 5000 metres, 1500 metres and cross country are a trifling matter ! Boy, tackle, you do have high standards, I'll give you that. The cheap shot about the fact that she chose to run a few races for her husband's country, where she also lived, at the end of her career is neither here nor there. All those medals were won running for Ireland.

I can't believe I have to make these points.
User avatar
Bleu
Bookworm
 
Posts: 146
Joined: January 29th, 2007, 8:34 pm

Next

Return to Other Sports

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest