BOD 2nd Greatest Irish Sportsmen Ever

[Sauvignon Blank]

She did not win olympic gold therefore it is true that she did not have that little bit extra. .... Greatness should always be linked with success at the highest level and Sonia never achieved this.

So three Gold medals in World Championships equates to not achieving success at the highest level? Tough crowd.

Golf is a solitary and excruciatingly difficult game to play(at major level).

I don't recall Sonia having an assistant running alongside her carrying her spare shoes and water bottle and giving advice on when to speed up.

No, thats done in between preparing for the big races i.e. training.

[Broken Wing]

Golf is a solitary and excruciatingly difficult game to play(at major level).

I don't recall Sonia having an assistant running alongside her carrying her spare shoes and water bottle and giving advice on when to speed up.

No, thats done in between preparing for the big races i.e. training.

Golfers don't train?

[Sauvignon Blank]

Golf is a solitary and excruciatingly difficult game to play(at major level).

I don't recall Sonia having an assistant running alongside her carrying her spare shoes and water bottle and giving advice on when to speed up.

No, thats done in between preparing for the big races i.e. training.

Golfers don't train?[/quote]

Golfers dont train, they practice.
Golfers face three adversaries 1.The course 2. The opposition 3. Themselves.

The greatest Golfer of all time Jack Nicklaus maintains number 3 is the most difficult to master. Padraig Harrington confronted and subsequently overcame no 3(after years of trying) in front of the 'barry Burne' at Carnoustie's 18th hole to clinch his 1st Major. Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods were/are also quite adept at this......hence their Major haul. It is this facet or factor in sport that seperates the wheat from the chaff.
It is why Clive woodward's England won the WC, SA and Australia their 2 World cups. And why the Kiwis have floundered since 1987.
Unfortunately Sonia could not overcome No3.

[Broken Wing]

Golfers dont train, they practice.

You say tomato...

Golfers face three adversaries 1.The course 2. The opposition 3. Themselves.

The greatest Golfer of all time Jack Nicklaus maintains number 3 is the most difficult to master. Padraig Harrington confronted and subsequently overcame no 3(after years of trying) in front of the 'barry Burne' at Carnoustie's 18th hole to clinch his 1st Major. Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods were/are also quite adept at this......hence their Major haul. It is this facet or factor in sport that seperates the wheat from the chaff.
It is why Clive woodward's England won the WC, SA and Australia their 2 World cups. And why the Kiwis have floundered since 1987.
Unfortunately Sonia could not overcome No3.

Luckily for her the opposition in the world championships had an even tougher job overcoming No. 3 and she managed to win three golds as a result.

[Sauvignon Blank]

Golfers dont train, they practice.

You say tomato...

Golfers face three adversaries 1.The course 2. The opposition 3. Themselves.

The greatest Golfer of all time Jack Nicklaus maintains number 3 is the most difficult to master. Padraig Harrington confronted and subsequently overcame no 3(after years of trying) in front of the 'barry Burne' at Carnoustie's 18th hole to clinch his 1st Major. Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods were/are also quite adept at this......hence their Major haul. It is this facet or factor in sport that seperates the wheat from the chaff.
It is why Clive woodward's England won the WC, SA and Australia their 2 World cups. And why the Kiwis have floundered since 1987.
Unfortunately Sonia could not overcome No3.

Luckily for her the opposition in the world championships had an even tougher job overcoming No. 3 and she managed to win three golds as a result.

The world championships DO NOT count as the ultimate prize for an Athlete, The Olympics do....Sonia will tell you this.
Majors are the ultimate prize for a golfer. Listen to anyone who has ever won one.........No 3 is the central theme.
My point still stands.

[Laura F]

Brian should have been number one no question about it. I was sad to see no GAA players there too I don't understand it

[Grumpy Old Man]

Golfers dont train, they practice.

You say tomato...

Golfers face three adversaries 1.The course 2. The opposition 3. Themselves.

The greatest Golfer of all time Jack Nicklaus maintains number 3 is the most difficult to master. Padraig Harrington confronted and subsequently overcame no 3(after years of trying) in front of the 'barry Burne' at Carnoustie's 18th hole to clinch his 1st Major. Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods were/are also quite adept at this......hence their Major haul. It is this facet or factor in sport that seperates the wheat from the chaff.
It is why Clive woodward's England won the WC, SA and Australia their 2 World cups. And why the Kiwis have floundered since 1987.
Unfortunately Sonia could not overcome No3.

Luckily for her the opposition in the world championships had an even tougher job overcoming No. 3 and she managed to win three golds as a result.

The world championships DO NOT count as the ultimate prize for an Athlete, The Olympics do....Sonia will tell you this.
Majors are the ultimate prize for a golfer. Listen to anyone who has ever won one.........No 3 is the central theme.
My point still stands.

While I agree with a lot of the above, I think the comparison is slightly unfair. Harrington has 16 opportunities to win a major for every one that Sonia got. On the other hand, she did win three world championships which, while not having the prestige of the Olympics, often had better fields.

Slightly surprised that no-one has mentioned Pat O'Callaghan.

[Sauvignon Blank]

[quote="Grumpy Old Man
While I agree with a lot of the above, I think the comparison is slightly unfair. Harrington has 16 opportunities to win a major for every one that Sonia got. On the other hand, she did win three world championships which, while not having the prestige of the Olympics, often had better fields.

Slightly surprised that no-one has mentioned Pat O'Callaghan.[/quote]

Harrington is lining up against a 'field' of golfers approx 150. Anything can happen on any given Sunday (excuse the cliche) and usually does. Out of those 150 there are 30 serious contenders. He has to overcome so many obstacles to finish top of the pile. One of which is his mindset.
Sonia in fairness has to record good 'times' along her way to the olympics. These indicate how she should fare against the opposition at the Final. Correct me if im wrong but she managed to ensure that her 'times' leading up to Olympic finals were in fact excellent which pointed towards her winning the Gold medal?
So my question is.......why didnt her times stand up at the olympics?
I think the fact she may have 'lost her bottle' so to speak is the reason she ultimately lost out. Sad but true.

[Broken Wing]

Harrington is lining up against a 'field' of golfers approx 150. Anything can happen on any given Sunday (excuse the cliche) and usually does. Out of those 150 there are 30 serious contenders. He has to overcome so many obstacles to finish top of the pile. One of which is his mindset.
Sonia in fairness has to record good 'times' along her way to the olympics. These indicate how she should fare against the opposition at the Final. Correct me if im wrong but she managed to ensure that her 'times' leading up to Olympic finals were in fact excellent which pointed towards her winning the Gold medal?
So my question is.......why didnt her times stand up at the olympics?
I think the fact she may have 'lost her bottle' so to speak is the reason she ultimately lost out. Sad but true.

Garbage. If it's just down to the athlete's timings in the lead up to the Olympics then why bother having the races at all? If, as you say, anything can happen on any given Sunday in golf then why exclude that possibility for Sonia? For Sonia that particular Sunday comes round just once every four years. On one of those Sunday's she won an Olympic Silver and on another she withdrew from the race through illness. I've no doubt she regrets the outcome but I would still put her accomplishments far above those of Harrington.

[munster11]

You say Harrington conquered 'no.3' at the Barry Burn. First of all, he was handed that major on a plate after making a balls of it and secondly, how many times did he fall short in majors before eventually winning one? In golf, if you keep showing up for majors, you'll win one eventually. Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Lucas Glover, Shaun Micheel, Todd Hamilton, Rich Beem etc etc. Who are these guys?! Again, this is not to denigrate Padraig Harrington, who I have said was a worthy winner of this top 10 list. It's a serious achievement to win 3 majors and please God he'll win more.

You cannot compare the few chances Sonia had to win a gold with a golfer's attempts at winning a major. Similarly, without a World Cup, surely BOD and POC's careers are tainted? Not in my book!! I wouldn't belittle either of those on the basis of the years and years of failed attempts to win Heineken Cups and Six Nations Championships. Against 5 other countries where rugby is hardly king. But I would put Sonia miles ahead of Paul O'Connell (for example) in this list, and my admiration for Paulie knows no bounds!

[Sauvignon Blank]

Harrington is lining up against a 'field' of golfers approx 150. Anything can happen on any given Sunday (excuse the cliche) and usually does. Out of those 150 there are 30 serious contenders. He has to overcome so many obstacles to finish top of the pile. One of which is his mindset.
Sonia in fairness has to record good 'times' along her way to the olympics. These indicate how she should fare against the opposition at the Final. Correct me if im wrong but she managed to ensure that her 'times' leading up to Olympic finals were in fact excellent which pointed towards her winning the Gold medal?
So my question is.......why didnt her times stand up at the olympics?
I think the fact she may have 'lost her bottle' so to speak is the reason she ultimately lost out. Sad but true.

Garbage. If it's just down to the athlete's timings in the lead up to the Olympics then why bother having the races at all? If, as you say, anything can happen on any given Sunday in golf then why exclude that possibility for Sonia? For Sonia that particular Sunday comes round just once every four years. On one of those Sunday's she won an Olympic Silver and on another she withdrew from the race through illness. I've no doubt she regrets the outcome but I would still put her accomplishments far above those of Harrington.[/quote]

No, that statement there is utter garbage.

Regards Athletes times leading up to the finals, listen to the Athletes themselves. All they talk about is how they are 'improving my times' along the way. They are improving them because they need to reach a standard to get into a semi or final as they know some of their counterparts record better times. They know they have no chance of beating them but making the final is sufficient for some. Sonia had better times coming into finals but couldn't dig deep and win the gold. It is also this reason why World records are broken. Commentators who follow the sport know certain Athletes are recording excellent times and expect/hope they break the WR/OR at an event. You dont get from A to Z quickly, you must go through the alphabet.

Harrington's extraordinary success is a culmination of many things but mainly knocking down skittles patiently along the way and going through the alphabet much like Michael Johnson did to become a truly great Athlete.

I dabbled in athletics in school and also play Golf to a very high standard. Golf is a tougher exacting game to master. A game which many of its finest proponents believe cannot ever be mastered. Thats what sets the Harringtons, Woods,Nicklauses, Hogans,Palmers, Watsons, Ballesteros, Faldos, Singhs, Sneads etc apart.
If you really want some perspective on Harringtons feats, just look at the company he is in as mentioned above. The true legendary greats in their field.
And whats more.......hes Irish.

[Grumpy Old Man]

.

Thats what sets the Harringtons, Woods,Nicklauses, Hogans,Palmers, Watsons, Ballesteros, Faldos, Singhs, Sneads etc apart.
If you really want some perspective on Harringtons feats, just look at the company he is in as mentioned above. The true legendary greats in their field.
And whats more.......hes Irish.

Horseshit. He's in the same category as Singh, Els, Norman and Goosen, all of whom have won three majors AFAIK.

When he wins 5 majors you can bump him up to seves level, six he can join Faldo etc.

It should also be noted that he won two of his majors when the dominant player in the world wasn't competing.

I have great admiration for the guy. But he is not at the level you are putting him at,

[Sauvignon Blank]

You say Harrington conquered 'no.3' at the Barry Burn. First of all, he was handed that major on a plate after making a balls of it. Bullshit. Check out Woods and Nicklauses major wins before making a silly statement like that. There has to be someone who cracks under pressure, thats how majors are won and lost. The pressure is ratcheted up bit by bit going down the back 9 on a sunday. You either embrace it or lose the prize. Sergio bottled it and couldnt overcome No3. Padraig embraced it with his 50yard chip to get into the playoff . He then went on to nail the Spaniard in the play-off. I might remind you he started the day 7 shots behind the so called great Spaniard. Unless you have played Golf(which I doubt you do) I dont think you know what you are on about in fairness

and secondly, how many times did he fall short in majors before eventually winning one? 24 times approx, thats called being a fighter, keep on coming back for more, learning, analysing, being patient and most of all believing.


In golf, if you keep showing up for majors, you'll win one eventually. Mate, if thats your logic then why hasn't every golfer that ever turned up won 1. Ask Colin Montgomery, Lee Westwood, Sergio Garcia why their attendance at Majors have been fruitless.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Lucas Glover, Shaun Micheel, Todd Hamilton, Rich Beem etc etc. Who are these guys?! Excellent Golfers who overcame No 3 one time. I suggest you read Beems autobiography. Again, this is not to denigrate Padraig Harrington, who I have said was a worthy winner of this top 10 list. It's a serious achievement to win 3 majors and please God he'll win more.

You cannot compare the few chances Sonia had to win a gold with a golfer's attempts at winning a major. Similarly, without a World Cup, surely BOD and POC's careers are tainted? Not in my book!! I wouldn't belittle either of those on the basis of the years and years of failed attempts to win Heineken Cups and Six Nations Championships. And neither would I, thats what the agenda driven press do
Against 5 other countries where rugby is hardly king. But I would put Sonia miles ahead of Paul O'Connell (for example) in this list, and my admiration for Paulie knows no bounds!

[Sauvignon Blank]

.

Thats what sets the Harringtons, Woods,Nicklauses, Hogans,Palmers, Watsons, Ballesteros, Faldos, Singhs, Sneads etc apart.
If you really want some perspective on Harringtons feats, just look at the company he is in as mentioned above. The true legendary greats in their field.
And whats more.......hes Irish.

Horseshit. He's in the same category as Singh, Els, Norman and Goosen, all of whom have won three majors AFAIK. You might want to revise this statement, because thats ..as you say, horseshit. Norman 2 majors. Goosen 2 majors
When he wins 5 majors you can bump him up to seves level, six he can join Faldo etc. All the more remarkable considering Faldo and seve taking up the game when they were practically infants. Harrington was a late comer and wasn't even regarded as particularly brilliant as an Amateur. His handicap was +1, Paul McGinley was +4, go figure. The resources at Faldo's disposal to tap into were immense. But then again you probably knew this

It should also be noted that he won two of his majors when the dominant player in the world wasn't competing.
Oh please, do me a favour. Woods has gone on record as saying Harringtons back 9s in Birkdale and Oakland Hills were 'the best back nines of golf to win a major he has ever witnessed' Woods 2009. I think i'll go with woods on this one Grumpy.

I have great admiration for the guy. But he is not at the level you are putting him at,

No but then again are you typically full of the Irish sense of begrudgery that unfortunately pervades this nation? Harrington is a WINNER. We should celebrate this and not look for holes in his achievements or my argument. He is thoroughly respected by his peers for his achievements, and that Mr grumpy is the ultimate accolade

[Broken Wing]

Harrington gets 4 attempts to win a major every year. Sonia gets one attempt to win a world title every 2 years and one attempt at an Olympic title every 4. Perhaps if Sonia had 24 attempts at an Olympic title she'd have more than a Silver medal to show for it.

I'm not saying Harrington isn't a great Irish sportsman. I'm just saying that I would rank Sonia higher than him in the roll of great Irish sportpeople.

No doubt my opinion is coloured by my family's background in athletics just as yours is by your golfing background. Obviously the only way to resolve this is to bring back the Milk Superstars.

[Broken Wing]

Harrington is a WINNER. We should celebrate this and not look for holes in his achievements or my argument. He is thoroughly respected by his peers for his achievements, and that Mr grumpy is the ultimate accolade

Just as Sonia is a winner and we should celebrate this and not look for holes in her achievements.

[Sauvignon Blank]

Harrington is a WINNER. We should celebrate this and not look for holes in his achievements or my argument. He is thoroughly respected by his peers for his achievements, and that Mr grumpy is the ultimate accolade

Just as Sonia is a winner and we should celebrate this and not look for holes in her achievements.

BW, I admired her for many years (her running that is) and she filled me with a sense of pride when I saw her winning her medals (just as evry Irish sportstar does)but even you can admit her story, when told to future generations will fall a tad short of what it could have been. She knows deep down she couldn't find that extra bit of whatever to get her over the line in the Olympics. And that will never go away or change. It is something she will have to learn to accept.

[Broken Wing]

Harrington is a WINNER. We should celebrate this and not look for holes in his achievements or my argument. He is thoroughly respected by his peers for his achievements, and that Mr grumpy is the ultimate accolade

Just as Sonia is a winner and we should celebrate this and not look for holes in her achievements.

BW, I admired her for many years (her running that is) and she filled me with a sense of pride when I saw her winning her medals (just as evry Irish sportstar does)but even you can admit her story, when told to future generations will fall a tad short of what it could have been. She knows deep down she couldn't find that extra bit of whatever to get her over the line in the Olympics. And that will never go away or change. It is something she will have to learn to accept.

I believe what was missing was the low moral fibre required to cheat.

The story falling short will depend entirely on the story teller.

[Sauvignon Blank]

Harrington gets 4 attempts to win a major every year. Sonia gets one attempt to win a world title every 2 years and one attempt at an Olympic title every 4. Perhaps if Sonia had 24 attempts at an Olympic title she'd have more than a Silver medal to show for it.

I'm not saying Harrington isn't a great Irish sportsman. I'm just saying that I would rank Sonia higher than him in the roll of great Irish sportpeople.

No doubt my opinion is coloured by my family's background in athletics just as yours is by your golfing background. Obviously the only way to resolve this is to bring back the Milk Superstars.

And I totally respect your opinion on O'Sullivan but do her peers hold her in such esteem? Do they rate her... privately or publically? Surely this is the ultimate accolade for a sporting figure as it is they who know what it takes to be a champion: The sacrifices, pain, denial, regimental focus and discipline.

[Broken Wing]

Harrington gets 4 attempts to win a major every year. Sonia gets one attempt to win a world title every 2 years and one attempt at an Olympic title every 4. Perhaps if Sonia had 24 attempts at an Olympic title she'd have more than a Silver medal to show for it.

I'm not saying Harrington isn't a great Irish sportsman. I'm just saying that I would rank Sonia higher than him in the roll of great Irish sportpeople.

No doubt my opinion is coloured by my family's background in athletics just as yours is by your golfing background. Obviously the only way to resolve this is to bring back the Milk Superstars.

And I totally respect your opinion on O'Sullivan but do her peers hold her in such esteem? Do they rate her... privately or publically? Surely this is the ultimate accolade for a sporting figure as it is they who know what it takes to be a champion: The sacrifices, pain, denial, regimental focus and discipline.

In 2008 Sonia was appointed team manager of the Australian team for the 2008 IAAF World Cross County Championships. She is Chef de Mission for Ireland's Olympic team for 2012. In 2004 she was named Ireland's greatest living sports person. I think that shows the esteem within which her peers hold her.