BOD 2nd Greatest Irish Sportsmen Ever

[tackle-bag]

It should also be noted that he won two of his majors when the dominant player in the world wasn't competing.

Roger Federer won his record breaking Grand Slam title when the then world's best player and defending Wimbledon champion, Rafael Nadal, was injured. Because of that, do we say that Federer is still level with Sampras?

Behind him actually. This isn't an appropriate dicussion for this thread but there's no denying that Sampras won 14 slams in an era which included several of the all-time greats (Becker, Agassi, Edberg, Courier and Lendl) as well as a number of other true legends of the game (Ivanisevic, Safin, Stich, Chang, Kafelnikov, Rafter and Kuerten to name but a few). Federer won the first half of his haul when tennis was in the doldrums, without any real opposition apart from an erratic Andy Roddick and a declining Lleyton Hewitt.

[Sauvignon Blank]

You know I didn't begrudge Harrington for winning it by playing a game, but after seeing what SB has to say about Sonia, I now do.

Honestly, saying that a golf "Major " is an achievement on a higher plane of human accomplishment than a World Championship gold medal

Look: Harrington certainly won the silly trousers event okay? The best Irishman at the long walk and silly trousers in history so far. Athletics has all the mental toughness with added excruciating pain and grit and determination and physical stress.

Darts you have to beat your mythical "number 3" (is that when you sh!t your brains out?) too you know.

Ha ha Are you drinking?

[Sauvignon Blank]

It should also be noted that he won two of his majors when the dominant player in the world wasn't competing.

Roger Federer won his record breaking Grand Slam title when the then world's best player and defending Wimbledon champion, Rafael Nadal, was injured. Because of that, do we say that Federer is still level with Sampras?

Behind him actually. This isn't an appropriate dicussion for this thread but there's no denying that Sampras won 14 slams in an era which included several of the all-time greats (Becker, Agassi, Edberg, Courier and Lendl) as well as a number of other true legends of the game (Ivanisevic, Safin, Stich, Chang, Kafelnikov, Rafter and Kuerten to name but a few). Federer won the first half of his haul when tennis was in the doldrums, without any real opposition apart from an erratic Andy Roddick and a declining Lleyton Hewitt.

Interesting stuff Tackle bag, not a tennis buff by any stretch unlike yourself but Ive always thought Sampras was the real deal and could have won more.

[fourthirtythree]

You know I didn't begrudge Harrington for winning it by playing a game, but after seeing what SB has to say about Sonia, I now do.

Honestly, saying that a golf "Major " is an achievement on a higher plane of human accomplishment than a World Championship gold medal

Look: Harrington certainly won the silly trousers event okay? The best Irishman at the long walk and silly trousers in history so far. Athletics has all the mental toughness with added excruciating pain and grit and determination and physical stress.

Darts you have to beat your mythical "number 3" (is that when you sh!t your brains out?) too you know.

Ha ha Are you drinking?

No, just having a bit of a WUM. In fairness, I wondered if you were too. Smoking you out really.

You seem to believe that television decides a sportsperson's accomplishment, just like those people who only count the Tour de France in cycling. How many olympic medals an athlete can win is often a function of exactly when the olympics come in the cycles of their careers. Your points about times in running coming up to championships and the numbers competing apply to golf.

Sorry though: I genuinely don't respect the Long Walk in Silly Trousers as a sport. Any achievement in it is a long, long, long way off track and field, or say tennis.
And a long way ahead of darts.

Maybe around about with bowling or something. Just a bit ahead.

But greats in sport? Greats in TV and advertising revenue and getting old men to buy expensive clothes.

[Sauvignon Blank]

You know I didn't begrudge Harrington for winning it by playing a game, but after seeing what SB has to say about Sonia, I now do.

Honestly, saying that a golf "Major " is an achievement on a higher plane of human accomplishment than a World Championship gold medal

Look: Harrington certainly won the silly trousers event okay? The best Irishman at the long walk and silly trousers in history so far. Athletics has all the mental toughness with added excruciating pain and grit and determination and physical stress.

Darts you have to beat your mythical "number 3" (is that when you sh!t your brains out?) too you know.

Ha ha Are you drinking?

No, just having a bit of a WUM. In fairness, I wondered if you were too. Smoking you out really.

You seem to believe that television decides a sportsperson's accomplishment, No I Do not. Where did I state this?
just like those people who only count the Tour de France in cycling. How many olympic medals an athlete can win is often a function of exactly when the olympics come in the cycles of their careers. Your points about times in running coming up to championships and the numbers competing apply to golf. No, they most certainly do not.

Sorry though: I genuinely don't respect the Long Walk in Silly Trousers as a sport. Any achievement in it is a long, long, long way off track and field, or say tennis. Thats plain silly. It's your opinion, however anyone who has played Golf will tell you how difficult a game it is. Don't be fooled by the weekend hackers.
And a long way ahead of darts.

Maybe around about with bowling or something. Just a bit ahead.

But greats in sport? Greats in TV and advertising revenue and getting old men to buy expensive clothes.

Just to educate you further on the game of Golf, why is Tiger Woods the most revered sportsman in the world (marital indiscretions notwithstanding). Apart from the Nike marketing etc, he is revered because of his proximity to sheer perfection on the fairways in a game recognised by most as an excruciatingly difficult sport.
You honestly cant tell me a track and field slogger could ever command such respect from the great sporting fraternity?

[fourthirtythree]

He's the most valuable sneaker pimp for the crassest marketing company in the world (you know the ones, their logo adorns everything he does. I fear a Bill Clinton moment coming up. We'll finally get the answer to the question: is it really tatooed there?)

That's pretty much it.

It's a game. Like skittles.

[Sauvignon Blank]

He's the most valuable sneaker pimp for the crassest marketing company in the world (you know the ones, their logo adorns everything he does. I fear a Bill Clinton moment coming up. We'll finally get the answer to the question: is it really tatooed there?)

That's pretty much it.

It's a game. Like skittles.

muwaaahahahaha

[fourthirtythree]

Here you go SB: an end to the loud trousers brigade.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/gallery ... =357813132

Seriously, they'll do anything to make it look like real athletes play it.

[Sauvignon Blank]

Here you go SB: an end to the loud trousers brigade.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/gallery ... =357813132

Seriously, they'll do anything to make it look like real athletes play it.

Ha ha
Ive just ordered a pair.

[ribs]

What about Katie Taylor. Pound for Pound best Female in the world right now and an international i n football to boot.

Women and Boxing. Never the twain shall meet

Best of luck to her, hope she does it for her own sake.

Personally, I'm anti Boxing anyway, so seeing a woman Boxing just makes me cringe.

So any discussion that Katie Taylor might be one of the greatest Irish sportspersons is dismissed because 1. you don't like the sport? and 2. she is a woman?
There are plenty of sports which I don't like but I will respect great achievements within them. Particularly when achieved in adversity. I certainly won't dismiss them by being sexist. I don't think I need to explain why that is b*llshit.

[Sauvignon Blank]

Women and Boxing. Never the twain shall meet

Best of luck to her, hope she does it for her own sake.

Personally, I'm anti Boxing anyway, so seeing a woman Boxing just makes me cringe.

So any discussion that Katie Taylor might be one of the greatest Irish sportspersons is dismissed because 1. you don't like the sport? and 2. she is a woman?
There are plenty of sports which I don't like but I will respect great achievements within them. Particularly when achieved in adversity. I certainly won't dismiss them by being sexist. I don't think I need to explain why that is b*llshit.

ermm....
I said I'm anti Boxing (for the same reasons the medical profession are)...ergo.. Womens Boxing even more so.
How does this constitute sexism?

[ribs]

Best of luck to her, hope she does it for her own sake.

Personally, I'm anti Boxing anyway, so seeing a woman Boxing just makes me cringe.

So any discussion that Katie Taylor might be one of the greatest Irish sportspersons is dismissed because 1. you don't like the sport? and 2. she is a woman?
There are plenty of sports which I don't like but I will respect great achievements within them. Particularly when achieved in adversity. I certainly won't dismiss them by being sexist. I don't think I need to explain why that is b*llshit.

ermm....
I said I'm anti Boxing (for the same reasons the medical profession are)...ergo.. Womens Boxing even more so.
How does this constitute sexism?

I have no problem with your opinion against boxing for the dangers involved - I'm sure there are many people that feel the same way. My problem is that you seem to think that women boxing is even worse - that is the sexist part.

[Scott]

ermm....
I said I'm anti Boxing (for the same reasons the medical profession are)...ergo.. Womens Boxing even more so.
How does this constitute sexism?

I have no problem with your opinion against boxing for the dangers involved - I'm sure there are many people that feel the same way. My problem is that you seem to think that women boxing is even worse - that is the sexist part.

Foxy boxing! I love foxy boxing! It combines my two favorite things; boxing... and referees.

[Sauvignon Blank]

So any discussion that Katie Taylor might be one of the greatest Irish sportspersons is dismissed because 1. you don't like the sport? and 2. she is a woman?
There are plenty of sports which I don't like but I will respect great achievements within them. Particularly when achieved in adversity. I certainly won't dismiss them by being sexist. I don't think I need to explain why that is b*llshit.

ermm....
I said I'm anti Boxing (for the same reasons the medical profession are)...ergo.. Womens Boxing even more so.
How does this constitute sexism?

I have no problem with your opinion against boxing for the dangers involved - I'm sure there are many people that feel the same way. My problem is that you seem to think that women boxing is even worse - that is the sexist part.

Jesus wept.....
Boxing is barbaric...in my opinion. It damages the Brain.
Women, who I hold in the highest regard and have the ultimate utmost respect for, should never ever stand toe to toe boxing the shite out of each other. Its ludicrous, its ugly, its shameful...and cringeworthy. femininity should be celebrated and not perversed. Its about being a Lady.....not a feckin Ladette

Now if you think thats sexist, then you have a problem.

[tackle-bag]

Jesus wept.....
Boxing is barbaric...in my opinion. It damages the Brain.
Women, who I hold in the highest regard and have the ultimate utmost respect for, should never ever stand toe to toe boxing the shite out of each other. Its ludicrous, its ugly, its shameful...and cringeworthy. femininity should be celebrated and not perversed. Its about being a Lady.....not a feckin Ladette

Now if you think thats sexist, then you have a problem.

Don't worry mate, the political correctness brigade will always be here to stamp out any form of demarcation between genders, irrespective of how logical it may be in a particular case!

[Sauvignon Blank]

Jesus wept.....
Boxing is barbaric...in my opinion. It damages the Brain.
Women, who I hold in the highest regard and have the ultimate utmost respect for, should never ever stand toe to toe boxing the shite out of each other. Its ludicrous, its ugly, its shameful...and cringeworthy. femininity should be celebrated and not perversed. Its about being a Lady.....not a feckin Ladette

Now if you think thats sexist, then you have a problem.

Don't worry mate, the political correctness brigade will always be here to stamp out any form of demarcation between genders, irrespective of how logical it may be in a particular case!

Bloody women

[ribs]

Jesus wept.....
Boxing is barbaric...in my opinion. It damages the Brain.
Women, who I hold in the highest regard and have the ultimate utmost respect for, should never ever stand toe to toe boxing the shite out of each other. Its ludicrous, its ugly, its shameful...and cringeworthy. femininity should be celebrated and not perversed. Its about being a Lady.....not a feckin Ladette

Now if you think thats sexist, then you have a problem.

Don't worry mate, the political correctness brigade will always be here to stamp out any form of demarcation between genders, irrespective of how logical it may be in a particular case!

Like Sav Blancs tag line says I respect your opinion on the dangers of boxing, but I do consider this fairer sex stuff to be b*llshit and demeaning to women (apparently I have a problem as I believe that to be stone age sexism) and would ask that you take a couple of minutes to consider what you have said (perhaps consider the old athletics ban on women competing in distances of greater than 800m too?). However, I don't really want to have a debate about the meaning, pros and cons of femininity, sexism and PC or this thread will go way off topic. Instead I would like to put forward Katie Taylor as one of "the greatest Irish sportmen ever" to be considered on SPORTING merit.

Here's what little I know (I'm using 3 categories so that we might be able to compare sportmen from other sports):
The sport:
Boxing is a worldwide sport that requires a difficult combination of dexterity, hand-eye coordination, strength/power, stamina, conditioning, technique and individual determination. "difficult" because training for one area can be to the detrement of another. Female boxing, though not as widespread as the male version, is also worldwide with significant growth in the last few years in anticipation of the IOC's decision to include it in the London Olympics, particularly since it had already appeared as a demonstration sport. This is amateur boxing where points are only scored based on ringside judges assessing clean punches using the white part of the gloves to the scoring zone (similar to martial arts, fencing etc.). It is not like the professional version where rounds are won and knockouts sought.
The challenges:
Boxing continues to operate in poor facilities around the world. Women boxers have to overcome sterotyping, belittlement and society using old-fashioned categories as to what is "man's work". The sport requires fulltime dedication with twice a day training sessions and because of the lack of exposure this is an amateur sport (i.e. financing and life concerns have to be managed or sacrificed).
The success:
Double World Champion Boxing (2007 and 2008), Triple European Champion Boxing, Captain of the Irish Female Football Team

[Cianostays]

Here's what little I know (I'm using 3 categories so that we might be able to compare sportmen from other sports):
The sport:
Boxing is a worldwide sport that requires a difficult combination of dexterity, hand-eye coordination, strength/power, stamina, conditioning, technique and individual determination. "difficult" because training for one area can be to the detrement of another. Female boxing, though not as widespread as the male version, is also worldwide with significant growth in the last few years in anticipation of the IOC's decision to include it in the London Olympics, particularly since it had already appeared as a demonstration sport. This is amateur boxing where points are only scored based on ringside judges assessing clean punches using the white part of the gloves to the scoring zone (similar to martial arts, fencing etc.). It is not like the professional version where rounds are won and knockouts sought.
The challenges:
Boxing continues to operate in poor facilities around the world. Women boxers have to overcome sterotyping, belittlement and society using old-fashioned categories as to what is "man's work". The sport requires fulltime dedication with twice a day training sessions and because of the lack of exposure this is an amateur sport (i.e. financing and life concerns have to be managed or sacrificed).
The success:
Double World Champion Boxing (2007 and 2008), Triple European Champion Boxing, Captain of the Irish Female Football Team

You put forward a hell of a case for her alright but I think two things work against her:

1 She's, relatively speaking, at the beginning of her career. If she wins a gold medal in 2012, (with the pressure of a nation on her), she'd have to be a strong contender alright.

2 She hasn't had a major setback that she's had to overcome to really test her character. Of course, if she remains brilliant for the rest of her career, it's a no brainer.

[Sauvignon Blank]

Jesus wept.....
Boxing is barbaric...in my opinion. It damages the Brain.
Women, who I hold in the highest regard and have the ultimate utmost respect for, should never ever stand toe to toe boxing the shite out of each other. Its ludicrous, its ugly, its shameful...and cringeworthy. femininity should be celebrated and not perversed. Its about being a Lady.....not a feckin Ladette

Now if you think thats sexist, then you have a problem.

Don't worry mate, the political correctness brigade will always be here to stamp out any form of demarcation between genders, irrespective of how logical it may be in a particular case!

Like Sav Blancs tag line says I respect your opinion on the dangers of boxing, but I do consider this fairer sex stuff to be b*llshit and demeaning to women (apparently I have a problem as I believe that to be stone age sexism) and would ask that you take a couple of minutes to consider what you have said (perhaps consider the old athletics ban on women competing in distances of greater than 800m too?). However, I don't really want to have a debate about the meaning, pros and cons of femininity, sexism and PC or this thread will go way off topic. Instead I would like to put forward Katie Taylor as one of "the greatest Irish sportmen ever" to be considered on SPORTING merit.

Here's what little I know (I'm using 3 categories so that we might be able to compare sportmen from other sports):
The sport:
Boxing is a worldwide sport that requires a difficult combination of dexterity, hand-eye coordination, strength/power, stamina, conditioning, technique and individual determination. "difficult" because training for one area can be to the detrement of another. Female boxing, though not as widespread as the male version, is also worldwide with significant growth in the last few years in anticipation of the IOC's decision to include it in the London Olympics, particularly since it had already appeared as a demonstration sport. This is amateur boxing where points are only scored based on ringside judges assessing clean punches using the white part of the gloves to the scoring zone (similar to martial arts, fencing etc.). It is not like the professional version where rounds are won and knockouts sought.
The challenges:
Boxing continues to operate in poor facilities around the world. Women boxers have to overcome sterotyping, belittlement and society using old-fashioned categories as to what is "man's work". The sport requires fulltime dedication with twice a day training sessions and because of the lack of exposure this is an amateur sport (i.e. financing and life concerns have to be managed or sacrificed).
The success:
Double World Champion Boxing (2007 and 2008), Triple European Champion Boxing, Captain of the Irish Female Football Team

I'll gladly have a wager with you that no Woman boxer will ever top a nations poll for the greatest sportsperson..EVER.
Nothwithstanding such outposts as Bhutan, Outer-Mongolia, Inner-Mongolia, All the Stans'(Turkmenis,Krygri etc) .

[Bogman]

6th Sean Kelly (Cycling) - Lucky enough to be included, the fact that he never won Le Tour (cycling's biggest prize by a country mile) really weighs against him - Roche could easily have been included instead.

Kelly was one of the greatest cyclists ever regardless of nationality. Roche's fame is largely on the back of one exceptional year. Over their careers though, Roche doesn't come close to Kelly. He was ranked No. 1 in the world for several years in what is arguably the most physically demanding sport on earth and is second in the all time list of total race wins. If cycling had a higher profile he'd be top 3 and deservedly so.

Kelly failed drugs tests twice (although one of them was with his mechanic's sample), so he had his own issues.
Roche was the more talented rider and who knows, were it not for injuries may have added to his achievements.
Had Kelly planned his seasons better and not gone chasing the prize money, he could have performed better in the Tour de France.