WTF is going on in Scotland????

[Sea_point]

If you take away the sectarian cr@p, what is left of Scottish football? It's only reedeming feature right now is that it boasts one of the fiercest derbies in the world, and that makes it appealing to Sky. Take that derby away (by removing the sectarian cr@p, it becomes just like any other derby), and Sky wont be interested in the rights, and no-one outside of Scotland will give a feck about our league. If thats what it takes, then IMO that unfortunate, but we need to do it anyway. But the OF aren't going to vote for it, and the OF pretty much run Scottish football

If proper penalties were implemented (ground closures and points deductions), the problem could be gone in a season.

Turkey's voting for Christmas springs to mind, but your right the OF derbies are Car Crash TV. Bottom line is that the football is sh*te and most of the players outside the OF teams would struggle to play Championship football in England. Without the OF games they wouldn't be picked up at tall outside Scotland.

I will never have and never will undestand the interest for Irish supporters who are not interested in and do not support the sectarian element in either of these Scottish (apart from the players) teams...

[Sauvignon Blank]

Baws - it's because he is an arsehole. Neither his religion nor his nationality come into it.

Made me chuckle that. Has nothing to do with his background puh-leease

I know a few people that have met him in the west end, and say the guy just acts like a tw@t. Infact, one Aberdeen fan's (Aberdeen hate Rangers far more than Celtic, for whom their rivalry is mainly sporting) comment was "It's clear to see why he was assulted in Ashton Lane a few years ago". Oh yeah, and I also know several Celtic fans who have told me on more than one occassion this season that they are "embarrased he is managing their club".

Ah yes those wonderful paragons of virtue, Aberdeen fans.
Several fans of any club would always be embarrassed by their incumbent managers, c'est la vie.

Of course, none of that makes it acceptable to send him mail bombs, but to suggest it is all because he is an Irish catholic is just plain wrong. Afterall, if that was the reason, why do most Rangers fans have nothing but respect for Martin O'Neil? Would it perhaps be because he behaved like the decent man he is?

No weegie, it's plain right. He got all manner of shoite thrown at him early in his career at Celtic, are you saying he was acting the tw@t from day one?

You see, Mr Lennon is affectionately known as a 'wee taig'. A derogatory term for a Northern Irish Catholic. The little ginger fella had the temerity to play for Northern Ireland but actually would have preferred to play for his country 'Ireland', not some manufactured little statelets' team, whose following/supporters (ahem) are sectarian. This didn't go down well with the orange bigots supporting Linfield, Glentoran, Portadown and in particular Rangers. It is important to them that no 'wee-Taig' rise above his station or entertain delusions of grandeur. Hence the 'Hang-Mans' noose graffiti around the Lisburn area at the time (his home). His father spoke of how he'd be driving to and from the town and work daily to see this graffiti about his son everywhere.
Not a nice thing to endure.

Now, other notable catholics have played for the North but have not attracted the same attention e.g Martin O'Neill and Pat Jennings. The reason for this is a moot point but essentially boils down to the fact already mentioned on this thread that Neil Lennon unlike the aforementioned is no shrinking voilet, no passive 'wee taig', and will stand up for himself, his religion, beliefs and community. He makes no apologies for being a Northern Catholic who had aspirations to play for Ireland and Celtic. You see, he's a bit too 'Feniany' for some unfortunately. Incurring the wrath of orange/loyalist bigots usually means bullets in the post, an almost weekly occurrence for Celtic Fc players from the North. McCourt gets them regularly.

In my opinion he should not be walking out to the centre circle at Ibrox and applauding his fans, then cup his ears to the Rangers Fans, but then again a certain Glaswegian who played at Ibrox has been doing this for years, and recieved a knighthood for his endeavours.
There is sectarianism on both sides of the community , infesting more than 2 teams in Scotland, no question. But to say it is in equal measure is wildly inaccurate and downright ignorant.

Rangers and Hearts players don't recieve bullets and parcel bombs in their daily mail. Their players children don't require Police protection.

I actually burst out laughing at the bit in bold!

The catholic club you are thinking of there is hibs - Celtic are every bit as bad as Rangers and Hearts. The Hearts v Celtic game a few weeks ago (which I think is what started this thread?) was awful, but Celtic were just as bad as the home fans - Chanting "Oh, ah up the 'ra" as the teams walked out isn't a great way to start, and they continued to chant support for terrorist organisations throught the game, before responding to the Lennon/fan incident by hurling coins at ballboys and putting 5 stewards in hospital. Strangely, that was never headline news even over here though...

As for Rangers players not recieving bullets - Fernado Ricksen did, and other players have recieved death threats, whilst one (can't remember who, of the top of my head) was assulted on the pitch by a Celtic fan. And you are trying to tell me it's only Rangers and Hearts with a problem?

Celtic are the ones with the real problem - they can't admit they have one! At least Rangers recognise the issue and have made a half-hearted attempt to stamp it out. There was a BBC program last week that had some telling stats on it - over the last 6 seasons, Rangers have banned around 70 people per season for sectarian singing. Celtic have banned 1 per season.

That last bit made me cringe.

Hmm, Neil Lennon was being booed years back by every clubs fans in Scotland except St Johnstone. Why was this ?
Do you dispute this FACT?

.....and why is it EVERY SINGLE TIME Rangers go to Europe they cause mayhem? Riot police called in to grounds, towns trashed, fights with locals, sectarian singing etc e.g. Spain and Manchester
Care to enlighten on why UEFA stick fines on them?

The difference in both clubs making the finals of the UEFA?

Celtic go to Sevilla and there was not one single arrest. They by all accounts were extremely well behaved and great ambassadors for their city and club.
Rangers go to Manchester, are treated extremely well by the local authorities and proceed to riot after the match.

Yes, alot of OF supporters are arseholes - but there are also a lot of decent guys who just want to support the team their fathers supported, and who don't partake in the sectarian cr@p. Unfortunatly they are pretty much lost in the crowd at Ibrox/Parkhead, but they make up the vast majority at most football grounds around the country every week, and indeed almost the entire Scotland support at Hampden. Yes you see some people who have had a bit too much to drink - but nothing that I haven't seen at rugby before now either...

Final thought on the subject: Whilst there is undoubtably serious problems in Scottish football (particularly the 4 'religious' clubs), it isn't going to change any time soon for one simple reason - the OF don't want it to change.

If you take away the sectarian cr@p, what is left of Scottish football? It's only reedeming feature right now is that it boasts one of the fiercest derbies in the world, and that makes it appealing to Sky. Take that derby away (by removing the sectarian cr@p, it becomes just like any other derby), and Sky wont be interested in the rights, and no-one outside of Scotland will give a feck about our league. If thats what it takes, then IMO that unfortunate, but we need to do it anyway. But the OF aren't going to vote for it, and the OF pretty much run Scottish football

If proper penalties were implemented (ground closures and points deductions), the problem could be gone in a season.

You may want to recall my original assertion was the prevalence of sectarianism on both sides.

The reason it won't change is because the fans won't change.

And you ask why most Rangers fans respect M O'Neill? I doubt it very much. A minority may respect the fact he's a winner and won trophies but after that one imagines they wouldn't have much time for him.

[lineens weegie army]

Baws - it's because he is an arsehole. Neither his religion nor his nationality come into it.

Made me chuckle that. Has nothing to do with his background puh-leease

I know a few people that have met him in the west end, and say the guy just acts like a tw@t. Infact, one Aberdeen fan's (Aberdeen hate Rangers far more than Celtic, for whom their rivalry is mainly sporting) comment was "It's clear to see why he was assulted in Ashton Lane a few years ago". Oh yeah, and I also know several Celtic fans who have told me on more than one occassion this season that they are "embarrased he is managing their club".

Ah yes those wonderful paragons of virtue, Aberdeen fans.
Several fans of any club would always be embarrassed by their incumbent managers, c'est la vie.

Of course, none of that makes it acceptable to send him mail bombs, but to suggest it is all because he is an Irish catholic is just plain wrong. Afterall, if that was the reason, why do most Rangers fans have nothing but respect for Martin O'Neil? Would it perhaps be because he behaved like the decent man he is?

No weegie, it's plain right. He got all manner of shoite thrown at him early in his career at Celtic, are you saying he was acting the tw@t from day one?

You see, Mr Lennon is affectionately known as a 'wee taig'. A derogatory term for a Northern Irish Catholic. The little ginger fella had the temerity to play for Northern Ireland but actually would have preferred to play for his country 'Ireland', not some manufactured little statelets' team, whose following/supporters (ahem) are sectarian. This didn't go down well with the orange bigots supporting Linfield, Glentoran, Portadown and in particular Rangers. It is important to them that no 'wee-Taig' rise above his station or entertain delusions of grandeur. Hence the 'Hang-Mans' noose graffiti around the Lisburn area at the time (his home). His father spoke of how he'd be driving to and from the town and work daily to see this graffiti about his son everywhere.
Not a nice thing to endure.

Now, other notable catholics have played for the North but have not attracted the same attention e.g Martin O'Neill and Pat Jennings. The reason for this is a moot point but essentially boils down to the fact already mentioned on this thread that Neil Lennon unlike the aforementioned is no shrinking voilet, no passive 'wee taig', and will stand up for himself, his religion, beliefs and community. He makes no apologies for being a Northern Catholic who had aspirations to play for Ireland and Celtic. You see, he's a bit too 'Feniany' for some unfortunately. Incurring the wrath of orange/loyalist bigots usually means bullets in the post, an almost weekly occurrence for Celtic Fc players from the North. McCourt gets them regularly.

In my opinion he should not be walking out to the centre circle at Ibrox and applauding his fans, then cup his ears to the Rangers Fans, but then again a certain Glaswegian who played at Ibrox has been doing this for years, and recieved a knighthood for his endeavours.
There is sectarianism on both sides of the community , infesting more than 2 teams in Scotland, no question. But to say it is in equal measure is wildly inaccurate and downright ignorant.

Rangers and Hearts players don't recieve bullets and parcel bombs in their daily mail. Their players children don't require Police protection.

I actually burst out laughing at the bit in bold!

The catholic club you are thinking of there is hibs - Celtic are every bit as bad as Rangers and Hearts. The Hearts v Celtic game a few weeks ago (which I think is what started this thread?) was awful, but Celtic were just as bad as the home fans - Chanting "Oh, ah up the 'ra" as the teams walked out isn't a great way to start, and they continued to chant support for terrorist organisations throught the game, before responding to the Lennon/fan incident by hurling coins at ballboys and putting 5 stewards in hospital. Strangely, that was never headline news even over here though...

As for Rangers players not recieving bullets - Fernado Ricksen did, and other players have recieved death threats, whilst one (can't remember who, of the top of my head) was assulted on the pitch by a Celtic fan. And you are trying to tell me it's only Rangers and Hearts with a problem?

Celtic are the ones with the real problem - they can't admit they have one! At least Rangers recognise the issue and have made a half-hearted attempt to stamp it out. There was a BBC program last week that had some telling stats on it - over the last 6 seasons, Rangers have banned around 70 people per season for sectarian singing. Celtic have banned 1 per season.

That last bit made me cringe.

Hmm, Neil Lennon was being booed years back by every clubs fans in Scotland except St Johnstone. Why was this ?
Do you dispute this FACT?

.....and why is it EVERY SINGLE TIME Rangers go to Europe they cause mayhem? Riot police called in to grounds, towns trashed, fights with locals, sectarian singing etc e.g. Spain and Manchester
Care to enlighten on why UEFA stick fines on them?

The difference in both clubs making the finals of the UEFA?

Celtic go to Sevilla and there was not one single arrest. They by all accounts were extremely well behaved and great ambassadors for their city and club.
Rangers go to Manchester, are treated extremely well by the local authorities and proceed to riot after the match.

Yes, alot of OF supporters are arseholes - but there are also a lot of decent guys who just want to support the team their fathers supported, and who don't partake in the sectarian cr@p. Unfortunatly they are pretty much lost in the crowd at Ibrox/Parkhead, but they make up the vast majority at most football grounds around the country every week, and indeed almost the entire Scotland support at Hampden. Yes you see some people who have had a bit too much to drink - but nothing that I haven't seen at rugby before now either...

Final thought on the subject: Whilst there is undoubtably serious problems in Scottish football (particularly the 4 'religious' clubs), it isn't going to change any time soon for one simple reason - the OF don't want it to change.

If you take away the sectarian cr@p, what is left of Scottish football? It's only reedeming feature right now is that it boasts one of the fiercest derbies in the world, and that makes it appealing to Sky. Take that derby away (by removing the sectarian cr@p, it becomes just like any other derby), and Sky wont be interested in the rights, and no-one outside of Scotland will give a feck about our league. If thats what it takes, then IMO that unfortunate, but we need to do it anyway. But the OF aren't going to vote for it, and the OF pretty much run Scottish football

If proper penalties were implemented (ground closures and points deductions), the problem could be gone in a season.

You may want to recall my original assertion was the prevalence of sectarianism on both sides.

The reason it won't change is because the fans won't change.

And you ask why most Rangers fans respect M O'Neill? I doubt it very much. A minority may respect the fact he's a winner and won trophies but after that one imagines they wouldn't have much time for him.

Your right. I suppose it's inevitable really, what would I know? I mean, I only live here and have supported one of the clubs for my entire life!

Can't be arsed messing around with quotes, but to answer of few points:

Yes, Lennon behaved like a tw@t as a player right from the start. Even people who don't follow football over here will tell you as much!

What's wrang with 'dons fans? Ok, they have some hooligans (and they like their sheep), but the vast majority are very decent guys. And it's not a handful of Celtic fans that hate him - it's every one I know!


So you accept that fans of every club in Scotland hate Lennon? (except you say St Johnstone - what makes you say that? I doubt their fans think much of him either) You are aware that 'every' club would include the Catholic, with Irish roots, Hibernian FC? Surely their fans don't hate him for religion or for his nationality? So what could it be?? Also include in there the handful of 'Religiously neutral' clubs.

Rangers in Europe? I'll admit thats a problem - but it's not as one-sided as you make out. Manchester was caused by probably no more than about 1,000 idiots who weren't there for the football. A good mate of mine, who wouldn't lie, says this includes a coach load of leeds fans, who admitted they were only there for a fight, whilst the rest weren't wearing any colours and many had english accents. Granted, they still attached themselfs to my clubs support that day, but you would not have done so had the final been in, say, Seville. Even the ones that are known troublemakers though couldn't be prevented from travelling though, since you don't need a passport to travel to England. Again, not the same for Seville.

As for the others - I have witnessed first hand how inept the police can be at some venues (Skopje in my case - the only time I've thought the Tartan Army were going to be involved in a riot!), so am not atall surprised it has kicked off on occassions. Doesn't make it right, but the local police are just are guilty as the travelling support are - and any club could easilly be caught up in it. And the singing charges are being brought on a report from a third body, after the UEFA match delegate (on one occassion, an Irish one, so who knows about sectarianism) reported there was nothing wrong. I know people that were in Eindhoven this season and were surprised when I told them about these charges. They had heard nothing.

And besides, the only reason UEFA haven't charged Celtic recently is because they haven't stayed in europe for long enough for UEFA to notice!

Treated well by authorities in Manchester? debatable. The council laughed at Rangers when we told them we were expecting 150,000 to travel. They prepared for 80,000, and that, I believe, was a big part in causing the trouble. And that was the findings of the inquiry into that night, not some speculation by me.



And those fans that wont change could be banned very easilly. The clubs know who sits on nearly every seat weeek in, week out. It's doesn't take a genius to work out the identities of those singing sectarian songs, and to ban them from grounds (I could give you an entire block at Parkhead that should be banned for starters). Simple as that.

So why don't the clubs (in particular Celtic, UEFA charges mean Rangers have had to make some effort) do it?? Or why doesn't the SPL/SFA start forcing them?

Another example - today the Scottish government introduced a bill to 'tackle sectarianism'. All well and good (in particular, It covers people watching in pubs - which is a massive problem. Some of the stuff I have heard from both sides in pubs!) , but it doesn't change the fact that everything in it is already illegal. So why not just apply the existing laws?

[Sauvignon Blank]

to answer of few points:

Yes, Lennon behaved like a tw@t as a player right from the start. Even people who don't follow football over here will tell you as much!
Terry Butcher, Terry Hurlock & Graham Roberts behaved like tw@ts but did they recieve the level of abuse as Neil Lennon?

What's wrang with 'dons fans? Ok, they have some hooligans (and they like their sheep), but the vast majority are very decent guys. And it's not a handful of Celtic fans that hate him - it's every one I know!

I met a few Aberdeen fans years back in Galway, good lads but had some very interesting things to say about their support. I remember a discussion about 'Stirling Hun Hunters' ? and their hooligan element.

So you accept that fans of every club in Scotland hate Lennon? (except you say St Johnstone - what makes you say that? I doubt their fans think much of him either) You are aware that 'every' club would include the Catholic, with Irish roots, Hibernian FC? Surely their fans don't hate him for religion or for his nationality? So what could it be?? Also include in there the handful of 'Religiously neutral' clubs.

I never said hate, you did. A concerted campaign against the fella with its roots in Sectarian Norn Iron and culminating in the current status quo. Agreed on Hibs

Rangers in Europe? I'll admit thats a problem - but it's not as one-sided as you make out. Manchester was caused by probably no more than about 1,000 idiots who weren't there for the football. A good mate of mine, who wouldn't lie, says this includes a coach load of leeds fans, who admitted they were only there for a fight, whilst the rest weren't wearing any colours and many had english accents.
That your fans are affilliated with English hooligans is a well known fact. Leeds, Bolton & Chelsea to name but 3. Far right cavemen intent on causing mayhem at away games. I've been to see Rangers in Europe a few times and it's not a pretty sight. Bruges circa 90-92(cant remember) and Amsterdam. Nasty atmosphere around the town all day and night. Rangers are a problem in Europe and to start blaming your soul-mates is a tad silly

Granted, they still attached themselfs to my clubs support that day, but you would not have done so had the final been in, say, Seville. Even the ones that are known troublemakers though couldn't be prevented from travelling though, since you don't need a passport to travel to England. Again, not the same for Seville.

Potential for trouble in Sevilla was greater than Manchester, a big final in Spain, cheap beer, sangria and loads of sunshine not to mention Jose's teams histrionics during the game. Not one arrest Weegie? Quelle surprise.

As for the others - I have witnessed first hand how inept the police can be at some venues (Skopje in my case - the only time I've thought the Tartan Army were going to be involved in a riot!), so am not atall surprised it has kicked off on occassions. Doesn't make it right, but the local police are just are guilty as the travelling support are - and any club could easilly be caught up in it. And the singing charges are being brought on a report from a third body, after the UEFA match delegate (on one occassion, an Irish one, so who knows about sectarianism) reported there was nothing wrong. I know people that were in Eindhoven this season and were surprised when I told them about these charges. They had heard nothing.

Agreed the local Police can be very heavy handed but i've been to many football games in Europe in the last decade and trouble can start with heavy/incompetent Policing yet it is incumbent on the fans to police themselves like the Irish, Danish and Scottish national fans do.
The circus that is UEFA are hounding your fans for a reason. Turks, Serbs, Poles and Russians are equally to blame for racist chanting and trouble. I never said Celtic were blameless I did say however, there is a far greater propensity for trouble from Rangers and your history in Europe simply illustrates this.

And besides, the only reason UEFA haven't charged Celtic recently is because they haven't stayed in europe for long enough for UEFA to notice!
Chuckle chuckle, They won the European cup tho' Something you or I will never see a Rangers team do.

Treated well by authorities in Manchester? debatable. The council laughed at Rangers when we told them we were expecting 150,000 to travel. They prepared for 80,000, and that, I believe, was a big part in causing the trouble. And that was the findings of the inquiry into that night, not some speculation by me.

So the authorities are overwhelmed by an extra 70,000 fans, cant cope, so hey ho lets trash the place and try and a kill some Copper while we are at it
AFAIK they erected big screens for enjoyment, a sporting village for those with no tickets to come down and enjoy the experience and crucially allowed the sale of alcohol early on so fans could enjoy themselves. A magnamonous gesture by the Manchester authorities i think you'll agree.

And those fans that wont change could be banned very easilly. The clubs know who sits on nearly every seat weeek in, week out. It's doesn't take a genius to work out the identities of those singing sectarian songs, and to ban them from grounds (I could give you an entire block at Parkhead that should be banned for starters). Simple as that.
Agreed

So why don't the clubs (in particular Celtic, UEFA charges mean Rangers have had to make some effort) do it?? Or why doesn't the SPL/SFA start forcing them?

Dunno weegie, I dont live there but as you have already told me, you do

Another example - today the Scottish government introduced a bill to 'tackle sectarianism'. All well and good (in particular, It covers people watching in pubs - which is a massive problem. Some of the stuff I have heard from both sides in pubs!) , but it doesn't change the fact that everything in it is already illegal. So why not just apply the existing laws?

I once had the displeasure of watching a Rangers Aberdeen match in Kilbride at a pub called the 'GreenHills' affectionately known as the 'Flying Tumbler'. Aptly named boozer it most certainly was. And the behaviour you describe above was evident.
BTW i also had the pleasure to see the great Davey Cooper score a cracking goal at Parkhead(circa 84), a volley into the corner afetr controlling a cross with his chest. Davey Provan scored twice for Celtic (i think) but came away from that game mightily impressed with Cooper, a legend.

[lineens weegie army]

I met a few Aberdeen fans years back in Galway, good lads but had some very interesting things to say about their support. I remember a discussion about 'Stirling Hun Hunters' ? and their hooligan element.

At one point, Aberdeen were notorious for their casuals - but that was mainly during the '80's when the New Firm were at their height. Several decades of mediocrity and even fighting relegation mean there are very few of them left - and I believe the last remaining ones (the 'Red Ultras') were banned from Pittodrie last season.

Only incident I can think of in recent years involving Aberdeen fans was last year, when one of them attended Easter Road dressed as a sheep - and was 'accidentally' set alight by a Hibs fans on the train home.

I never said hate, you did. A concerted campaign against the fella with its roots in Sectarian Norn Iron and culminating in the current status quo. Agreed on Hibs

OK, forget the word hate then - but he is still boo'ed by people of all religious persuasions. That would suggest the problem lies in something other than his religion..

That your fans are affilliated with English hooligans is a well known fact. Leeds, Bolton & Chelsea to name but 3. Far right cavemen intent on causing mayhem at away games. I've been to see Rangers in Europe a few times and it's not a pretty sight. Bruges circa 90-92(cant remember) and Amsterdam. Nasty atmosphere around the town all day and night. Rangers are a problem in Europe and to start blaming your soul-mates is a tad silly

Not going to deny the association with Englsih holigans - but how do you stop that? For away games in europe, many of these folk will already have football banning orders against them, but you can't stop them from being in an english city on the day of a Euro final. I would conceed that Rangers could do more to distance themselfs from these groups - but again, there is vested interests there. (for a start, cancelling the annual Linfield friendly, and the increasingly common Chelsea one, would be a good move)

Celtic aren't exactly clean on this one though - A lot of their fans like to think there is a link to Liverpool (by far the worst british team in terms of behaviour in Europe), And they also have strong connections to St Pauli who have developed a large hooligan element in their support.

Potential for trouble in Sevilla was greater than Manchester, a big final in Spain, cheap beer, sangria and loads of sunshine not to mention Jose's teams histrionics during the game. Not one arrest Weegie? Quelle surprise.

Disagree the potential for trouble was higher in Seville. There was plenty of cheap booze in Manchester, The weather wasn't a million miles from that in Seville, and like I say, impossible to control who travels. Oh, and it's just down the road for 2 of the 3 hooligan groups you mention. Whilst I congratulate Celtic fans on their behaviour in Seville (one of my favourite football pictures is from Seville actually. The sea of Green and white, and tricolours ect. with just a single saltire lost in the middle. A great stick to beat Celtic fans with ), I don't for one minute believe it would have been the same story if they had gone to Manchester.

Agreed the local Police can be very heavy handed but i've been to many football games in Europe in the last decade and trouble can start with heavy/incompetent Policing yet it is incumbent on the fans to police themselves like the Irish, Danish and Scottish national fans do.
The circus that is UEFA are hounding your fans for a reason. Turks, Serbs, Poles and Russians are equally to blame for racist chanting and trouble. I never said Celtic were blameless I did say however, there is a far greater propensity for trouble from Rangers and your history in Europe simply illustrates this.

They way we were treated in Macedonia, no-one cares about self-policing or maintining the good name of your supporters. We were the lucky ones being locked out of the game, and penned in by police for an extended period of time in baking sun. The guys inside the ground were exposed to the sweltering heat for over 2.5 hours without being allowed to search for shade, or have any access to water ect. When you are subjected to conditions like that, your only concern becomes your wellbeing. Thinking back, I am still amazed there was no trouble out there!

Chuckle chuckle, They won the European cup tho' Something you or I will never see a Rangers team do.

Well done to them, It was a fantastic achievment - and IMO Jock Stein was the greatest Scottish managers there was. And I would would class Jinky amoungst are best players aswell. But I very much doubt I will ever 'see' a Celtic team win the european Cup either Probably about as likely as seeing Scotland qualify for a World Cup actually.

So the authorities are overwhelmed by an extra 70,000 fans, cant cope, so hey ho lets trash the place and try and a kill some Copper while we are at it
AFAIK they erected big screens for enjoyment, a sporting village for those with no tickets to come down and enjoy the experience and crucially allowed the sale of alcohol early on so fans could enjoy themselves. A magnamonous gesture by the Manchester authorities i think you'll agree.

I said debatable, not that you were wrong

Yes Manchester had good intentions, and it could have been a very good day, but for one thing - the numbers they were expecting!

It had been a very enjoyable day with a party atmosphere, right up until a while before kick-off when people were starting to get a point to view the game from. Of course, having prepared for far too few people, that was never going to happen and people started trying to push into the fan zone. The authorities then had the bright idea to turn the screen off and voila! Full scale riot!

If they had prepared properly for the numbers that were expected to travel (or even admitted they couldn't and asked people not to travel), then there would have been fighting between a few dozen eejits and the police. The fighting only became widespread because of the screens being switched off.

Dunno weegie, I dont live there but as you have already told me, you do

And i've already told you the reason aswell - vested interests, clubs don't actually want to stamp it out.

I once had the displeasure of watching a Rangers Aberdeen match in Kilbride at a pub called the 'GreenHills' affectionately known as the 'Flying Tumbler'. Aptly named boozer it most certainly was. And the behaviour you describe above was evident.
BTW i also had the pleasure to see the great Davey Cooper score a cracking goal at Parkhead(circa 84), a volley into the corner afetr controlling a cross with his chest. Davey Provan scored twice for Celtic (i think) but came away from that game mightily impressed with Cooper, a legend.

Scariest experience I have had at a football match in Scotland was drinking in the Stadium bar at Ibrox. Had only gone in 'cause we were desperate for a pish, and opened the door to see the place packed with massive feckers belting out 'the famine song'. We'd been told, in no uncertain terms, by the bouncer on the toilet doors that "these are for customer use only". Obviously then had to buy a drink, which came in what remained of a plastic tumbler - the number of chips in this thing was unreal! Fastest I have ever downed a pint mind.

[lineens weegie army]

Anyway, it might all be a pointless discussion. Rumours are the new CEO of Rangers is possibly going to be a certain Gordon McKie. The club will be dead within 5 years!

(Thank f*ck for that though - I was convinced Scottish Rugby was going to be a thing of the past under his helmship)

[Sauvignon Blank]

I met a few Aberdeen fans years back in Galway, good lads but had some very interesting things to say about their support. I remember a discussion about 'Stirling Hun Hunters' ? and their hooligan element.

At one point, Aberdeen were notorious for their casuals - but that was mainly during the '80's when the New Firm were at their height. Several decades of mediocrity and even fighting relegation mean there are very few of them left - and I believe the last remaining ones (the 'Red Ultras') were banned from Pittodrie last season.

Only incident I can think of in recent years involving Aberdeen fans was last year, when one of them attended Easter Road dressed as a sheep - and was 'accidentally' set alight by a Hibs fans on the train home.

I never said hate, you did. A concerted campaign against the fella with its roots in Sectarian Norn Iron and culminating in the current status quo. Agreed on Hibs

OK, forget the word hate then - but he is still boo'ed by people of all religious persuasions. That would suggest the problem lies in something other than his religion..

That your fans are affilliated with English hooligans is a well known fact. Leeds, Bolton & Chelsea to name but 3. Far right cavemen intent on causing mayhem at away games. I've been to see Rangers in Europe a few times and it's not a pretty sight. Bruges circa 90-92(cant remember) and Amsterdam. Nasty atmosphere around the town all day and night. Rangers are a problem in Europe and to start blaming your soul-mates is a tad silly

Not going to deny the association with Englsih holigans - but how do you stop that? For away games in europe, many of these folk will already have football banning orders against them, but you can't stop them from being in an english city on the day of a Euro final. I would conceed that Rangers could do more to distance themselfs from these groups - but again, there is vested interests there. (for a start, cancelling the annual Linfield friendly, and the increasingly common Chelsea one, would be a good move)

Celtic aren't exactly clean on this one though - A lot of their fans like to think there is a link to Liverpool (by far the worst british team in terms of behaviour in Europe), And they also have strong connections to St Pauli who have developed a large hooligan element in their support.

Potential for trouble in Sevilla was greater than Manchester, a big final in Spain, cheap beer, sangria and loads of sunshine not to mention Jose's teams histrionics during the game. Not one arrest Weegie? Quelle surprise.

Disagree the potential for trouble was higher in Seville. There was plenty of cheap booze in Manchester, The weather wasn't a million miles from that in Seville, and like I say, impossible to control who travels. Oh, and it's just down the road for 2 of the 3 hooligan groups you mention. Whilst I congratulate Celtic fans on their behaviour in Seville (one of my favourite football pictures is from Seville actually. The sea of Green and white, and tricolours ect. with just a single saltire lost in the middle. A great stick to beat Celtic fans with ), I don't for one minute believe it would have been the same story if they had gone to Manchester.

Agreed the local Police can be very heavy handed but i've been to many football games in Europe in the last decade and trouble can start with heavy/incompetent Policing yet it is incumbent on the fans to police themselves like the Irish, Danish and Scottish national fans do.
The circus that is UEFA are hounding your fans for a reason. Turks, Serbs, Poles and Russians are equally to blame for racist chanting and trouble. I never said Celtic were blameless I did say however, there is a far greater propensity for trouble from Rangers and your history in Europe simply illustrates this.

They way we were treated in Macedonia, no-one cares about self-policing or maintining the good name of your supporters. We were the lucky ones being locked out of the game, and penned in by police for an extended period of time in baking sun. The guys inside the ground were exposed to the sweltering heat for over 2.5 hours without being allowed to search for shade, or have any access to water ect. When you are subjected to conditions like that, your only concern becomes your wellbeing. Thinking back, I am still amazed there was no trouble out there!

Chuckle chuckle, They won the European cup tho' Something you or I will never see a Rangers team do.

Well done to them, It was a fantastic achievment - and IMO Jock Stein was the greatest Scottish managers there was. And I would would class Jinky amoungst are best players aswell. But I very much doubt I will ever 'see' a Celtic team win the european Cup either Probably about as likely as seeing Scotland qualify for a World Cup actually.

So the authorities are overwhelmed by an extra 70,000 fans, cant cope, so hey ho lets trash the place and try and a kill some Copper while we are at it
AFAIK they erected big screens for enjoyment, a sporting village for those with no tickets to come down and enjoy the experience and crucially allowed the sale of alcohol early on so fans could enjoy themselves. A magnamonous gesture by the Manchester authorities i think you'll agree.

I said debatable, not that you were wrong

Yes Manchester had good intentions, and it could have been a very good day, but for one thing - the numbers they were expecting!

It had been a very enjoyable day with a party atmosphere, right up until a while before kick-off when people were starting to get a point to view the game from. Of course, having prepared for far too few people, that was never going to happen and people started trying to push into the fan zone. The authorities then had the bright idea to turn the screen off and voila! Full scale riot!

If they had prepared properly for the numbers that were expected to travel (or even admitted they couldn't and asked people not to travel), then there would have been fighting between a few dozen eejits and the police. The fighting only became widespread because of the screens being switched off.

Dunno weegie, I dont live there but as you have already told me, you do

And i've already told you the reason aswell - vested interests, clubs don't actually want to stamp it out.

I once had the displeasure of watching a Rangers Aberdeen match in Kilbride at a pub called the 'GreenHills' affectionately known as the 'Flying Tumbler'. Aptly named boozer it most certainly was. And the behaviour you describe above was evident.
BTW i also had the pleasure to see the great Davey Cooper score a cracking goal at Parkhead(circa 84), a volley into the corner afetr controlling a cross with his chest. Davey Provan scored twice for Celtic (i think) but came away from that game mightily impressed with Cooper, a legend.

Scariest experience I have had at a football match in Scotland was drinking in the Stadium bar at Ibrox. Had only gone in 'cause we were desperate for a pish, and opened the door to see the place packed with massive feckers belting out 'the famine song'. We'd been told, in no uncertain terms, by the bouncer on the toilet doors that "these are for customer use only". Obviously then had to buy a drink, which came in what remained of a plastic tumbler - the number of chips in this thing was unreal! Fastest I have ever downed a pint mind.

Fair enough.

The last time I was in Glasgow was when we won the HC in Edinburgh..Had an amazing time. There is without doubt an edge to the place but always had a great time there. Great city & people.

Sectarianism

[dave13]

Wrong Thread