Sauvignon Blank wrote:lineens weegie army wrote:
Baws - it's because he is an arsehole. Neither his religion nor his nationality come into it.
Made me chuckle that. Has nothing to do with his background
puh-leease
Weegie wrote:
I know a few people that have met him in the west end, and say the guy just acts like a tw@t. Infact, one Aberdeen fan's (Aberdeen hate Rangers far more than Celtic, for whom their rivalry is mainly sporting) comment was "It's clear to see why he was assulted in Ashton Lane a few years ago". Oh yeah, and I also know several Celtic fans who have told me on more than one occassion this season that they are "embarrased he is managing their club".
Ah yes those wonderful paragons of virtue, Aberdeen fans.
Several fans of any club would always be embarrassed by their incumbent managers, c'est la vie.
Weegie wrote:
Of course, none of that makes it acceptable to send him mail bombs, but to suggest it is all because he is an Irish catholic is just plain wrong. Afterall, if that was the reason, why do most Rangers fans have nothing but respect for Martin O'Neil? Would it perhaps be because he behaved like the decent man he is?
No weegie, it's plain right. He got all manner of shoite thrown at him early in his career at Celtic, are you saying he was acting the tw@t from day one?
Sauvignon Blank wrote:
You see, Mr Lennon is affectionately known as a 'wee taig'. A derogatory term for a Northern Irish Catholic. The little ginger fella had the temerity to play for Northern Ireland but actually would have preferred to play for his country 'Ireland', not some manufactured little statelets' team, whose following/supporters (ahem) are sectarian. This didn't go down well with the orange bigots supporting Linfield, Glentoran, Portadown and in particular Rangers. It is important to them that no 'wee-Taig' rise above his station or entertain delusions of grandeur. Hence the 'Hang-Mans' noose graffiti around the Lisburn area at the time (his home). His father spoke of how he'd be driving to and from the town and work daily to see this graffiti about his son everywhere.
Not a nice thing to endure.
Now, other notable catholics have played for the North but have not attracted the same attention e.g Martin O'Neill and Pat Jennings. The reason for this is a moot point but essentially boils down to the fact already mentioned on this thread that Neil Lennon unlike the aforementioned is no shrinking voilet, no passive 'wee taig', and will stand up for himself, his religion, beliefs and community. He makes no apologies for being a Northern Catholic who had aspirations to play for Ireland and Celtic. You see, he's a bit too 'Feniany' for some unfortunately. Incurring the wrath of orange/loyalist bigots usually means bullets in the post, an almost weekly occurrence for Celtic Fc players from the North. McCourt gets them regularly.
In my opinion he should not be walking out to the centre circle at Ibrox and applauding his fans, then cup his ears to the Rangers Fans, but then again a certain Glaswegian who played at Ibrox has been doing this for years, and recieved a knighthood for his endeavours.
There is sectarianism on both sides of the community , infesting more than 2 teams in Scotland, no question. But to say it is in equal measure is wildly inaccurate and downright ignorant.
Rangers and Hearts players don't recieve bullets and parcel bombs in their daily mail. Their players children don't require Police protection.
weegie wrote:
I actually burst out laughing at the bit in bold!
The catholic club you are thinking of there is hibs - Celtic are every bit as bad as Rangers and Hearts. The Hearts v Celtic game a few weeks ago (which I think is what started this thread?) was awful, but Celtic were just as bad as the home fans - Chanting "Oh, ah up the 'ra" as the teams walked out isn't a great way to start, and they continued to chant support for terrorist organisations throught the game, before responding to the Lennon/fan incident by hurling coins at ballboys and putting 5 stewards in hospital. Strangely, that was never headline news even over here though...
As for Rangers players not recieving bullets - Fernado Ricksen did, and other players have recieved death threats, whilst one (can't remember who, of the top of my head) was assulted on the pitch by a Celtic fan. And you are trying to tell me it's only Rangers and Hearts with a problem?
Celtic are the ones with the real problem - they can't admit they have one! At least Rangers recognise the issue and have made a half-hearted attempt to stamp it out. There was a BBC program last week that had some telling stats on it - over the last 6 seasons, Rangers have banned around 70 people per season for sectarian singing. Celtic have banned 1 per season.
That last bit made me cringe.
Hmm, Neil Lennon was being booed years back by every clubs fans in Scotland except St Johnstone. Why was this ?
Do you dispute this FACT?
.....and why is it EVERY SINGLE TIME Rangers go to Europe they cause mayhem? Riot police called in to grounds, towns trashed, fights with locals, sectarian singing etc e.g. Spain and Manchester
Care to enlighten on why UEFA stick fines on them?
The difference in both clubs making the finals of the UEFA?
Celtic go to Sevilla and there was not one single arrest. They by all accounts were extremely well behaved and great ambassadors for their city and club.
Rangers go to Manchester, are treated extremely well by the local authorities and proceed to riot after the match.
weegie wrote:
Yes, alot of OF supporters are arseholes - but there are also a lot of decent guys who just want to support the team their fathers supported, and who don't partake in the sectarian cr@p. Unfortunatly they are pretty much lost in the crowd at Ibrox/Parkhead, but they make up the vast majority at most football grounds around the country every week, and indeed almost the entire Scotland support at Hampden. Yes you see some people who have had a bit too much to drink - but nothing that I haven't seen at rugby before now either...
Final thought on the subject: Whilst there is undoubtably serious problems in Scottish football (particularly the 4 'religious' clubs), it isn't going to change any time soon for one simple reason - the OF don't want it to change.
If you take away the sectarian cr@p, what is left of Scottish football? It's only reedeming feature right now is that it boasts one of the fiercest derbies in the world, and that makes it appealing to Sky. Take that derby away (by removing the sectarian cr@p, it becomes just like any other derby), and Sky wont be interested in the rights, and no-one outside of Scotland will give a feck about our league. If thats what it takes, then IMO that unfortunate, but we need to do it anyway. But the OF aren't going to vote for it, and the OF pretty much run Scottish football
If proper penalties were implemented (ground closures and points deductions), the problem could be gone in a season.
You may want to recall my original assertion was the prevalence of sectarianism on both sides.
The reason it won't change is because the fans won't change.
And you ask why most Rangers fans respect M O'Neill? I doubt it very much. A minority may respect the fact he's a winner and won trophies but after that one imagines they wouldn't have much time for him.
Your right. I suppose it's inevitable really, what would I know? I mean, I only live here and have supported one of the clubs for my entire life!
Can't be arsed messing around with quotes, but to answer of few points:
Yes, Lennon behaved like a tw@t as a player right from the start. Even people who don't follow football over here will tell you as much!
What's wrang with 'dons fans? Ok, they have some hooligans (and they like their sheep), but the vast majority are very decent guys. And it's not a handful of Celtic fans that hate him - it's every one I know!
So you accept that fans of every club in Scotland hate Lennon? (except you say St Johnstone - what makes you say that? I doubt their fans think much of him either) You are aware that 'every' club would include the Catholic, with Irish roots, Hibernian FC? Surely their fans don't hate him for religion or for his nationality? So what could it be?? Also include in there the handful of 'Religiously neutral' clubs.
Rangers in Europe? I'll admit thats a problem - but it's not as one-sided as you make out. Manchester was caused by probably no more than about 1,000 idiots who weren't there for the football. A good mate of mine, who wouldn't lie, says this includes a coach load of leeds fans, who admitted they were only there for a fight, whilst the rest weren't wearing any colours and many had english accents. Granted, they still attached themselfs to my clubs support that day, but you would not have done so had the final been in, say, Seville. Even the ones that are known troublemakers though couldn't be prevented from travelling though, since you don't need a passport to travel to England. Again, not the same for Seville.
As for the others - I have witnessed first hand how inept the police can be at some venues (Skopje in my case - the only time I've thought the Tartan Army were going to be involved in a riot!), so am not atall surprised it has kicked off on occassions. Doesn't make it right, but the local police are just are guilty as the travelling support are - and any club could easilly be caught up in it. And the singing charges are being brought on a report from a third body, after the UEFA match delegate (on one occassion, an Irish one, so who knows about sectarianism) reported there was nothing wrong. I know people that were in Eindhoven this season and were surprised when I told them about these charges. They had heard nothing.
And besides, the only reason UEFA haven't charged Celtic recently is because they haven't stayed in europe for long enough for UEFA to notice!
Treated well by authorities in Manchester? debatable. The council laughed at Rangers when we told them we were expecting 150,000 to travel. They prepared for 80,000, and that, I believe, was a big part in causing the trouble. And that was the findings of the inquiry into that night, not some speculation by me.
And those fans that wont change could be banned very easilly. The clubs know who sits on nearly every seat weeek in, week out. It's doesn't take a genius to work out the identities of those singing sectarian songs, and to ban them from grounds (I could give you an entire block at Parkhead that should be banned for starters). Simple as that.
So why don't the clubs (in particular Celtic, UEFA charges mean Rangers have had to make some effort) do it?? Or why doesn't the SPL/SFA start forcing them?
Another example - today the Scottish government introduced a bill to 'tackle sectarianism'. All well and good (in particular, It covers people watching in pubs - which is a massive problem. Some of the stuff I have heard from both sides in pubs!) , but it doesn't change the fact that everything in it is already illegal. So why not just apply the existing laws?