US Open Thread

[Broken Wing]

Who gives a flying fk?

He played a great open and fair play to him.

[pip14]

What is an interesting thought is that with him winning yesterday, and probably going on to win many more, with him strongly being linked to funding some ulster players wages, can you image the amount of money he may pump into Ulster Rugby. They'll have dan carter and richie mccaw playing for them next year at this rate lol

[tate]

What is an interesting thought is that with him winning yesterday, and probably going on to win many more, with him strongly being linked to funding some ulster players wages, can you image the amount of money he may pump into Ulster Rugby. They'll have dan carter and richie mccaw playing for them next year at this rate lol

does he have that kind of chonga already? Man, i am in the wrong game entirely.

[cormac]

What is an interesting thought is that with him winning yesterday, and probably going on to win many more, with him strongly being linked to funding some ulster players wages, can you image the amount of money he may pump into Ulster Rugby. They'll have dan carter and richie mccaw playing for them next year at this rate lol

does he have that kind of chonga already? Man, i am in the wrong game entirely.

He won $1,440,000 yesterday alone.

[tate]

i see.

Well if you'll excuse me im off to get a set of golf clubs, turn back the clock about 20 years and get me some money.

f%~k rugby and college, golf is where it's at apparently

[All the way back logue]

I heard this from a guy today and was completely shocked by it.....apparently not all of the Leinster squad are practicing Catholics - I for one feel embarrased for fully celebrating the HC victory.......I feel dirty. If I had known there was 10% non-catholics I would only have celebrated 90%.

[tate]

I heard this from a guy today and was completely shocked by it.....apparently not all of the Leinster squad are practicing Catholics - I for one feel embarrased for fully celebrating the HC victory.......I feel dirty. If I had known there was 10% non-catholics I would only have celebrated 90%.

careful the sea otters dont hear you, a theist can easily get lynched on the internet

[All the way back logue]

and once I saw Padraig Harrington leave BEFORE communion!!!

[Sauvignon Blank]

It's a very strange dynamic that exists in respect of both McIlroy and McDowell. Both players are of a Nationalist, Catholic background yet both have, to some extent at least, eschewed their "Irishness". We're all aware of the difficulties facing sports stars from the North in declaring their allegiances, with Eddie Irvine and Neil Lennon being two examples that immediately spring to mind. However, it's an issue which I think McIlroy could deal better with into the future, because he's going to be asked personal questions about his nationality etc. far more often now that he's at the very peak of the game. He has a history of making inopportune remarks in interviews which he needs to address.

Not so sure about that.

I can guarantee you that it's the case.

McIlroy's family, including his father, have a tradition of involvement in Armagh Gaelic Football at various levels. I think he even has an uncle who played in the 1977 All-Ireland Final, but I'd need to double check that. Anyway, I know people are always having hissy fits on this forum if you don't cite sources for such propositions, so here's an article from the Guardian in 2007 confirming McIlroy's religious/political background:-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/20 ... esteelofeu

As you will see, that was written around the time Rory finished as the leading amateur in the British Open. It concludes with the following unambiguous statement:-

"What he will be like when he grows up we may only guess. What we do know is that he comes from a nice, warm family. As it happens they are Catholic. Whatever else, this suggests that the future may indeed be bright but, as it turns out, it is definitely not orange."

McDowell's position is slightly more nuanced. His mother is Catholic, his father Protestant. He was raised in the latter faith but with a distinctly nationalist outlook. A friend of mine played on Irish underage teams with him, and describes him as having been republican in his views. His position appears to have tempered considerably in recent years, but he still describes himself as Irish when asked the straight question. Here's an article in which he is quoted as doing so, during an interview with CBS in the States:-

http://www.irishcentral.com/story/sport ... 81234.html

Interesting.

[janeymac08]

What is an interesting thought is that with him winning yesterday, and probably going on to win many more, with him strongly being linked to funding some ulster players wages, can you image the amount of money he may pump into Ulster Rugby. They'll have dan carter and richie mccaw playing for them next year at this rate lol

I wouldn't be counting your chickens on that one just yet. He has just spent a week in Haiti doing charity work.

What a golfer and he seems to be a well-grounded, fine young man.

[darkside lighteside]

Bit cringy when that gee bagged threw the Tri color at him. The guys is clearly a proud ulster man....Leave him be

It's a very strange dynamic that exists in respect of both McIlroy and McDowell. Both players are of a Nationalist, Catholic background yet both have, to some extent at least, eschewed their "Irishness". We're all aware of the difficulties facing sports stars from the North in declaring their allegiances, with Eddie Irvine and Neil Lennon being two examples that immediately spring to mind. However, it's an issue which I think McIlroy could deal better with into the future, because he's going to be asked personal questions about his nationality etc. far more often now that he's at the very peak of the game. He has a history of making inopportune remarks in interviews which he needs to address.

No disrespect, but I could not disagree more with this. Implicit in the charge of having eschewed ‘Irishness’ is an assumption about what ‘Irishness’ is (and quite aside from this, the source you post re McDowell would seem to suggest the very opposite).

NI in particular, and Ireland in general, needs more young people who are open-minded, realistic and pragmatic about questions of nationality/Irishness/Britishness etc. Being condemned by birth to tread the same rigid, dreary footsteps of our forefathers hasn’t exactly been a recipe for success and fulifillment over the last number of centuries.

I don’t think he has anything to address – all he needs to think about is winning golf tournaments, and if some people want to ask him questions about his religion or politics, he should tell the truth. If this is that he is more comfortable thinking of himself as British rather than Irish, so be it. I’m not saying this is the case btw – until I read this thread I had no idea what religion he was (and until it starts affecting his game, I won’t give a monkey’s). If ‘Irishness’ thus has to stretch to cover some people who also feel British, so be it – preferable to someone having to censor their thoughts or words in order to be shoe-horned into someone else’s definition of it.

(I say all this as a holder of Irish and British passports, who answers as easily to Irish as Northern Irish)

[Broken Wing]

http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/deadrub ... ly-matter/

1. Rory McIlroy is British

If it suits you, he holds a British passport and has said he would like to represent Britain in the 2016 Olympics. And who has any right to argue with that?

2. Rory McIlroy is Irish

If you’d prefer, he can be seen as a product of Irish golf, having travelled the world as an amateur under the umbrella of the Golfing Union of Ireland and represented the island of Ireland (all 32 counties) at the highest level.

3. Rory McIlroy is Rory McIlroy

He belongs to himself, his parents, his true friends and Holywood Golf Club. He’s a sportsman. He entertains. He captivates. He amazes. He makes people happy.

[tackle-bag]

This thread seems to have diverged on various paths in light of the nationality issue and it's interesting to see the differing attitudes evinced in some of the posts. My own views in relation to the matter can probably be summarised as follows:-

1. Religion is totally irrelevant. I, for one, couldn't give a toss whether a sportsman is Catholic, Protestant, Hindu or Pagan if he's achieving great things in the name of this country. The only reason why I mentioned religion was for illustrative purposes, to fortify my suggestion that certain assumptions made regarding the allegiances of McIlroy/McDowell are in fact incorrect. Although the conflict in Northern Ireland is not religious in nature, it remains the case that the nationalist/unionist divide falls pretty squarely along religious lines.

2. In contrast with religion, the question of nationality is enormously relevant. In any given sporting event, I support the Irish participants first and foremost, and I think most other Irish people would take the same approach. In order to adopt this method, one has to know exactly who the "Irish" participants are. Accordingly, if a given individual is swearing blind that he isn't Irish but rather British, American or some other nationality, then he's not entitled to the windfall of support that comes with being Irish. Certain commentators might try to evade this fact by making vacuous comments like "Rory McIlroy is Rory McIlroy", but it's true nonetheless. Allow me to illustrate:-

- If the truth be told, Pádraig Harrington is a bit of a boring plodder. If he was English or Scottish or Welsh, many of us would be shouting from the roof-tops that he's the worst 3-time major winner of the modern era. However, because he's a proud Irishman who raised the Tricolour in his moments of triumph, we all think he's a national hero.
- Roy Keane is an arrogant, self-centred pr!ck. However, ignoring Saipan for a moment, we all still roared him on any time he took to the pitch, because he was one of our own.
- Steve Collins is a bit of a gouger if we're being honest. However, he pummelled his way to a world title with a shamrock shaved into the side of his head, and the words "Celtic Warrior" around his waist, so he'll always have a special place in most of our hearts. It's simple really.

If Rory McIlroy were to come out tomorrow and make a statement to the effect that he feels 100% British and has no affinity for Ireland whatsoever, there is no question but that his support in the Republic would wane considerably. I would continue to respect him as a phenomenal golfing talent, but only in the same way I do, say, Phil Mickelson. I, like many others, would no longer be leaping out of my seat every time he stitches an approach shot or drains a raker from the far side of the green.

3. Sportsmen can say certain things, or adopt certain attitudes, for various reasons. In other words, the fact that Rory McIlroy makes certain remarks concerning the Olympics in an interview, or puts an Ulster flag on his website instead of a Tricolour, isn't necessarily determinative of how he truly feels. Neither is the fact that he may carry a British passport - some of my most republican friends from the North do that for reasons of pure administrative convenience.

The fact that many famous Northerners tend to hedge their bets on the issue of nationality, in the public domain, is not particularly novel. Eddie Irvine famously wore an Orange helmet because he was an Ulster Protestant, with a large shamrock emblem because he didn't want "the IRA to blow [him] up". Incidentally, Eddie changed his tune towards the end of his career and decided he was Irish, although I suspect that may just be because it brought him more success with the ladies.

Who could blame Rory for being slightly cautious about what he says, having witnessed what has happened to Neil Lennon over the past few months for being too "open" about his nationalism!? One thing that has always struck me about McIlroy is the near 'tit for tat' basis upon which he interchanges the terms Irish and Northern Irish. Although he made repeated references to "Northern Ireland" in his acceptance speech at the US Open, he said this the following day:-

"To see obviously what Pádraig (Harrington) did in ’07 and ’08, winning three majors in a pretty short space of time, seeing Graeme (McDowell) win this trophy last year, and then me, Irish golf is obviously in a very healthy state at the moment."

In the same interview, he emphasised his commitment to playing in the Irish Open in Killarney this year, on the basis that it was his "home" championship.

There may also be personal reasons why someone may choose to sit on the fence publicly. I have previously heard suggestions that McIlroy's girlfriend Holly Sweeney is from a staunch unionist background. This may be totally untrue but if there's any substance to it, it might provide a further explanation as to why Rory doesn't go around shouting "I'm Irish" to anyone who'll listen.

Finally, regarding the famous "Olympics" interview, I think that proves almost nothing. In the first instance, the remarks were made when Rory had just turned 20. Secondly, he was far from definite, describing the issue as "an awkward question". Thirdly, the remarks made have always struck me as those of a young man who was completely put on the spot, in relation to an issue which he had never truly considered. Bear in mind that the interview occurred at a time when Olympic golf remained at least seven years away.

[pip14]

Agree with the poster above, however
In relation to representation at the Olympics, why would Rory represent Ireland when he could represent Great Britain and NORTHERN IRELAND ... < the country from Which he is from!!
I do wish the guy all the best for the future though and hope he goes on to win more majors.

[Dave Cahill]

Hes from this island and he likes Rugby. Thats good enough for me. The rest is just static.

[Sauvignon Blank]

- If the truth be told, Pádraig Harrington is a bit of a boring plodder. If he was English or Scottish or Welsh, many of us would be shouting from the roof-tops that he's the worst 3-time major winner of the modern era. However, because he's a proud Irishman who raised the Tricolour in his moments of triumph, we all think he's a national hero.

Thats just plain wrong t-bag. Could you elaborate on that point further? I'm perplexed by that statement considering PH is the greatest sportsman this country has ever produced.

Back on Topic, McIlroy is Northern Irish first and foremost. That is how he sees himself, the same as Hoey,Maybin, Clarke and McDowell.They use the NI/British flag as their emblem when competing in tournaments except in the world cup of golf when they represent Ireland.
I have played up north in scratch cups down the years against the northern lads and be they Catholic, Protestant or atheist they have a different outlook than us 'southerners'.
I personally do not have a problem with them using the NI/British flag as that is what they choose. Much in the same way they know if and when they were coming down a back strait on Sunday trying to win a tournament against say..Harrington, McGinley, Lawrie or Lowry then they would expect Irish fans fans to be rooting for the Irishman over the Ulsterman. I know i and countless others do.


What irks me slightly about McIlroy and McDowell (apart from the mid atlantic accents) is when they give no credit whatsoever to the Golfing Union of Ireland when they won their majors (open to correction). They should remember it's an all Ireland union that does sterling work for the youths on this island and has given them a stage to hone their talents and act as a springboard to the Walker cup, US collegiate game and ultimately the world stage.


All said, as a golfing fan...well done Rory, ya wee curly headed nordie c**t

[Slipper1]

- If the truth be told, Pádraig Harrington is a bit of a boring plodder. If he was English or Scottish or Welsh, many of us would be shouting from the roof-tops that he's the worst 3-time major winner of the modern era. However, because he's a proud Irishman who raised the Tricolour in his moments of triumph, we all think he's a national hero.

Thats just plain wrong t-bag. Could you elaborate on that point further? I'm perplexed by that statement considering PH is the greatest sportsman this country has ever produced.

Back on Topic, McIlroy is Northern Irish first and foremost. That is how he sees himself, the same as Hoey,Maybin, Clarke and McDowell.They use the NI/British flag as their emblem when competing in tournaments except in the world cup of golf when they represent Ireland.
I have played up north in scratch cups down the years against the northern lads and be they Catholic, Protestant or atheist they have a different outlook than us 'southerners'.
I personally do not have a problem with them using the NI/British flag as that is what they choose. Much in the same way they know if and when they were coming down a back strait on Sunday trying to win a tournament against say..Harrington, McGinley, Lawrie or Lowry then they would expect Irish fans fans to be rooting for the Irishman over the Ulsterman. I know i and countless others do.


What irks me slightly about McIlroy and McDowell (apart from the mid atlantic accents) is when they give no credit whatsoever to the Golfing Union of Ireland when they won their majors (open to correction). They should remember it's an all Ireland union that does sterling work for the youths on this island and has given them a stage to hone their talents and act as a springboard to the Walker cup, US collegiate game and ultimately the world stage.


All said, as a golfing fan...well done Rory, ya wee curly headed nordie c**t

I thought McIlroy tipped the cap to the GUI last weekend.

[Lar]

- If the truth be told, Pádraig Harrington is a bit of a boring plodder. If he was English or Scottish or Welsh, many of us would be shouting from the roof-tops that he's the worst 3-time major winner of the modern era. However, because he's a proud Irishman who raised the Tricolour in his moments of triumph, we all think he's a national hero.

Thats just plain wrong t-bag. Could you elaborate on that point further? I'm perplexed by that statement considering PH is the greatest sportsman this country has ever produced.

Back on Topic, McIlroy is Northern Irish first and foremost. That is how he sees himself, the same as Hoey,Maybin, Clarke and McDowell.They use the NI/British flag as their emblem when competing in tournaments except in the world cup of golf when they represent Ireland.
I have played up north in scratch cups down the years against the northern lads and be they Catholic, Protestant or atheist they have a different outlook than us 'southerners'.
I personally do not have a problem with them using the NI/British flag as that is what they choose. Much in the same way they know if and when they were coming down a back strait on Sunday trying to win a tournament against say..Harrington, McGinley, Lawrie or Lowry then they would expect Irish fans fans to be rooting for the Irishman over the Ulsterman. I know i and countless others do.


What irks me slightly about McIlroy and McDowell (apart from the mid atlantic accents) is when they give no credit whatsoever to the Golfing Union of Ireland when they won their majors (open to correction). They should remember it's an all Ireland union that does sterling work for the youths on this island and has given them a stage to hone their talents and act as a springboard to the Walker cup, US collegiate game and ultimately the world stage.


All said, as a golfing fan...well done Rory, ya wee curly headed nordie c**t

McIlroy has regularly praised the GUI and its support throughout his development. Don't know if he did so explicitly did so post Sunday but he certainly has done so before.

[Vamos los azules]

- If the truth be told, Pádraig Harrington is a bit of a boring plodder. If he was English or Scottish or Welsh, many of us would be shouting from the roof-tops that he's the worst 3-time major winner of the modern era. However, because he's a proud Irishman who raised the Tricolour in his moments of triumph, we all think he's a national hero.

Thats just plain wrong t-bag. Could you elaborate on that point further? I'm perplexed by that statement considering PH is the greatest sportsman this country has ever produced.

Back on Topic, McIlroy is Northern Irish first and foremost. That is how he sees himself, the same as Hoey,Maybin, Clarke and McDowell.They use the NI/British flag as their emblem when competing in tournaments except in the world cup of golf when they represent Ireland.
I have played up north in scratch cups down the years against the northern lads and be they Catholic, Protestant or atheist they have a different outlook than us 'southerners'.
I personally do not have a problem with them using the NI/British flag as that is what they choose. Much in the same way they know if and when they were coming down a back strait on Sunday trying to win a tournament against say..Harrington, McGinley, Lawrie or Lowry then they would expect Irish fans fans to be rooting for the Irishman over the Ulsterman. I know i and countless others do.


What irks me slightly about McIlroy and McDowell (apart from the mid atlantic accents) is when they give no credit whatsoever to the Golfing Union of Ireland when they won their majors (open to correction). They should remember it's an all Ireland union that does sterling work for the youths on this island and has given them a stage to hone their talents and act as a springboard to the Walker cup, US collegiate game and ultimately the world stage.


All said, as a golfing fan...well done Rory, ya wee curly headed nordie c**t

McIlroy has regularly praised the GUI and its support throughout his development. Don't know if he did so explicitly did so post Sunday but he certainly has done so before.

Press conference quotes from the IT suggest he did:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/spo ... 10352.html

[Sauvignon Blank]

Press conference quotes from the IT suggest he did:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/spo ... 10352.html

Glad to hear it. I did say i was open to correction however.