Tour de France

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Re: Tour de France

Postby Lar » July 20th, 2011, 7:16 pm

Frankly I am amazed that Contador is only a 5/10 and Armstrong a 4/10.

What it says about those at 6/10 or above I can't imagine but I agree Cycling is a sport unto itself for even having a list like this.

Arguably you have to give the UCI kudos for at least addressing the problem. Many other sports still only pander to the concept of adequate dope testing.
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Re: Tour de France

Postby IanD » July 21st, 2011, 1:45 pm

Roche is in the breakaway about 5 mins ahead of the Yellow Jersey group.

A handy way to keep up to date with Le Tour.
http://gaps.letour.fr/us.php
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Re: Tour de France

Postby artaneboy » July 21st, 2011, 3:22 pm

IanD wrote:Roche is in the breakaway about 5 mins ahead of the Yellow Jersey group.

A handy way to keep up to date with Le Tour.
http://gaps.letour.fr/us.php


Thanks for that. Very useful!
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Re: Tour de France

Postby ribs » July 22nd, 2011, 4:46 am

Even better is the sbs.com.au website which has an Android (and probably an iPhone) app that is seriously good (profiles, live news during the stage, map, standings, and most importantly times on the road). Pretty essential for the next 2 days of the tdf.
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Re: Tour de France

Postby artaneboy » July 24th, 2011, 7:04 pm

Well that's that, for another year. As always after the thrill of the first weeks sprints and spills and the drama of the mountains, the Tour ends in this traditional - but oh so boring dead rubber stage into Paris, where Cavendish duly (and deservedly) took the honours. That too needs to change - no more cliches of riders drinking Champagne. Yeah we know it was a hard race but celebrate afterwards!

Okay, as the commentators kept reminding us- it was great tour. But to be truthful, after the pile of turkeys EPOed and blood doped going back at least 15 years, this was not hard! We were so grateful to observe credible performances from all-too-human riders- rather than so called 'Lazarus-like recoveries', although Contador on the Alp d'Huez took some believing. :roll: This race seemed fairly clean.

Cadel Evans seemed to come from nowhere in terms of profile in the race to claim it in the time trial. Seemed a bit anti-climatic. But I remember the 1989 Tour when Lemond snatched it from Fignon by seconds in a TT on the final day. That's the last great Tour the experts refer to in comparison to this years. So Evans is a worthy winner, but lets kill another sacred cow and end his freewheel into the Champs for the bunch sprint.
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Re: Tour de France

Postby Hornet » February 6th, 2012, 1:42 pm

Contador banned for two years and has been stripped of his 2010 Tour Victory.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/16905217
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Re: Tour de France

Postby jezzer » February 6th, 2012, 3:35 pm

Thank god for that.
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Re: Tour de France

Postby Scott » August 24th, 2012, 8:57 am

Someone get Paul Kimmage a box of kleenex quick

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19365234
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Re: Tour de France

Postby Phil06 » August 24th, 2012, 10:12 am

If Armstrong's was truly innocent then he'd have grabbed one of the countless opportunities available to him with both hands to face down his accusers and clear his name.
This latest move on his part clears up (in my mind) any doubt of his guilt of using PED.

Armstrong has been playing with the law and relying on public opinion, but my guess is he knows the USADA have the dirt on him and were waiting to get him into court.
My guess is they’ve probably used modern test technology on his historic ‘B samples’ and have evidence.

His new battle is to try shore up and retain a positive public image in the US. If that goes, his fortune will take a big hit and (probably) his cancer foundation.
The Tour de France organisers will now have a difficult challenge to find clean riders to award Armstrong’s seven tour wins to. Looking at the list of confirmed dopers in the peloton, that’s going to be a tough job…

My advice? Start with the riders who came last, and work up from there!
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Re: Tour de France

Postby IanD » August 24th, 2012, 8:42 pm

I posted this back in 2008 so I have no idea where the titles should go to - also add to the list Andréas KLÖDEN

''German Andreas Klöden has agreed to pay a fine to call an end to an investigation into his involvement in a 2006 blood doping scandal, the dpa reported Saturday.''

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kloden- ... oping-case


I have to say I am a bit gutted by this as I am a big fan of the Tour (watch it live when I can and the highlights every night much to the annoyance of SWMBO) and cycling in general. As I said in 2008 'I believe most if not all pro cyclists in the last 20 - 25 years were dirty' this has only added to this belief.

I remember a headline form 98 that read 'Numbers of Drug Users on Irish streets down - Tour goes back to France'. Truer word spoken in jest etc. etc.

IanD wrote:In relation to Lance Armstrong. For each of his Tour Wins someone on the podium was caught on drugs. Either he was an absolute machine or as I believe he was also on drugs.

1999
1st - Lance ARMSTRONG (US POSTAL SERVICE)
2nd - Alex ZULLE (BANESTO) Former Festina Team member banned in 1998.
3rd - Fernando ESCARTIN (KELME - COSTA BLANCA)

2000
1st - Lance ARMSTRONG (US POSTAL SERVICE)
2nd - Jan ULLRICH (TEAM DEUTSCHE TELEKOM) Caught on Drugs
3rd - Joseba BELOKI (FESTINA Watches)

2001
1st - Lance ARMSTRONG (US POSTAL SERVICE)
2nd - Jan ULLRICH (TEAM DEUTSCHE TELEKOM) Caught on Drugs
3rd - Joseba BELOKI (O.N.C.E. - EROSKI)

2002
1st - Lance ARMSTRONG (US POSTAL SERVICE)
2nd - Joseba BELOKI (ONCE - EROSKI)
3rd - Raimondas RUMSAS (LAMPRE - DAIKIN) Caught on Drugs

2003
1st - Lance ARMSTRONG (US POSTAL - BERRY FLOOR)
2nd - Jan ULLRICH (TEAM BIANCHI) Caught on drugs
3rd - Alexandre VINOKOUROV (TEAM TELEKOM) Caught on drugs

2004
1st - Lance ARMSTRONG (US POSTAL - BERRY FLOOR)
2nd - Andréas KLÖDEN (T-MOBILE TEAM)
3rd - Ivan BASSO (TEAM CSC) Caught on drugs

2005
1st - Lance ARMSTRONG (DISCOVERY CHANNEL TEAM)
2nd - Ivan BASSO (TEAM CSC) Caught on drugs
3rd - Jan ULLRICH (T-MOBILE TEAM) Caught on drugs


In relation to Stephen Roche and Sean Kelly.

Roche was a definite doper while on the Carrera Team. It was investigated and an Italian judicial concluded he took EPO. This is all detailed in the book by Matt Rendall The Death of Marco Pantani. (Great book by the way). If he was clean why is the book still on sale and no leagal action. All through the investigation he denied ever taking any drugs. So in my opinion he is the worst type of cheater. When caught at least admit to it.

Kelly's team PDM are also implicated in Matt Rendalls book. Basically teams were given notice as to when they were to be tested and if dirty would pull out ill. This happened in the tour twice with PDM.

Also cyclingnews.com reported in 1997 on drug abuse in PDM back between 1989 and 1991 again implicating Kelly.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/arch ... ov28a.html


I believe most if not all pro cyclists in the last 20 - 25 years were dirty. Just because no one was caught makes no odds in my opinion. I know there is the innocent until proven guilty but as a cycling fan i am maybe a bit cynical. Too many were never caught and we have subsequently found out to be dirty.
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Re: Tour de France

Postby Donny B. » August 24th, 2012, 11:32 pm

I'm not a fan of cycling but I feel sorry for Ian and anyone else who's a genuine fan. It's such a rotten sport, not just in terms of the amount of cheats but in terms of the sports administrators who are just as culpable for it's reputation. If the UCI had their way, they would have covered up for Armstrong yet again, and pocketed cash from him in the process.
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Re: Tour de France

Postby Xanthippe » August 25th, 2012, 4:30 am

IanD wrote:I posted this back in 2008 so I have no idea where the titles should go to - also add to the list Andréas KLÖDEN

IanD wrote:2000
2nd - Jan ULLRICH (TEAM DEUTSCHE TELEKOM) Caught on Drugs


Have no problem with the majority of what you say with the exception of the dates quoted for Ullrich. When he was 'caught on drugs' in June 2002 he admitted he had taken ecstasy in a nightclub the night before the test but,as he was out of competition with a knee injury, it was agreed that he was not using the drug for performance enhancement.

I believe that, having finished second to Armstrong on several occasions and being aware that Armstrong was cheating, Ullrich allowed himself to be convinced (most likely by Rudy Pevenage) that if he couldn't beat them he should join them. He was 'outed' in the Operación Puerto case in 2006, was cleared later the same year by the Spanish courts but the German court continued to investigate and in February this year he was found guilty and all his results from May 2005 forward were removed from the records. Ullrich did not contest the court findings and has since admitted his involvement with Fuentes which he says was a mistake that he regrets.

There has never been any evidence or, probably more importantly, any suggestion that Ullrich was involved in any type of doping prior to becoming involved with Dr. Fuentes in 2005.
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Re: Tour de France

Postby IanD » August 25th, 2012, 1:58 pm

Xanthippe

My post was not meant to be 100% accurate time wise only to highlight the fact that he was caught on drugs at some time. I really dont want one drug cheat replaced with another drug cheat. Maybe I am overly touchy on this but I have to say I feel betrayed and let down not just by the cyclists but as Donny says the authority's.

Personally I feel that once dirty always dirty. In the case of Ullrich there is plenty of circumstantial evidence to indicate doping. Bjarne Riis who rode on the same team as Ulrich in 1996–1999 admitted doping during his Team Telekom days. Three other team mates Rolf Aldag, Erik Zabel and Brian Holm confessed to doping. Forgive me if this sounds harsh but that is the same time that Ullrich won the tour with these team mates so at best the win is tainted as he was helped by drug cheats. I dont believe that half a team cheats and the other half dosent. ''Riis said that he bought and injected the EPO himself, and team coach Walter Godefroot turned a blind eye to the drug use on the team.'' Note Riis said team and not individuals.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bjarne_Riis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Ullrich

Like I said I dont want a cheat replaced with a cheat regardless of when he cheated.
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Re: Tour de France

Postby fourthirtythree » August 25th, 2012, 3:20 pm

While most cyclists may have taken drugs, many of them on almost as epic and expensive scale as Armstrong, none of them has been as mean spirited, vindictive, sanctimonious, and litigious as Lance. Truly he has been in a class of his own. Public disgrace couldn't come to a more deserving person. Great news.


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Re: Tour de France

Postby icebaby » August 26th, 2012, 6:27 pm

fourthirtythree wrote:While most cyclists may have taken drugs, many of them on almost as epic and expensive scale as Armstrong, none of them has been as mean spirited, vindictive, sanctimonious, and litigious as Lance. Truly he has been in a class of his own. Public disgrace couldn't come to a more deserving person. Great news.


Now f%~k off and let us never hear of you again.

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Re: Tour de France

Postby fourthirtythree » August 26th, 2012, 8:26 pm

icebaby wrote:
fourthirtythree wrote:While most cyclists may have taken drugs, many of them on almost as epic and expensive scale as Armstrong, none of them has been as mean spirited, vindictive, sanctimonious, and litigious as Lance. Truly he has been in a class of his own. Public disgrace couldn't come to a more des ierving person. Great news.


Now f%~k off and let us never hear of you again.

Janey mac, what did he do to you?


:lol: I see your point but It's more what he did to everybody who didn't kowtow to him. A real nasty piece of work.
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Re: Tour de France

Postby Peg Leg » August 27th, 2012, 11:40 am

fourthirtythree wrote:
icebaby wrote:
fourthirtythree wrote:While most cyclists may have taken drugs, many of them on almost as epic and expensive scale as Armstrong, none of them has been as mean spirited, vindictive, sanctimonious, and litigious as Lance. Truly he has been in a class of his own. Public disgrace couldn't come to a more des ierving person. Great news.


Now f%~k off and let us never hear of you again.

Janey mac, what did he do to you?


:lol: I see your point but It's more what he did to everybody who didn't kowtow to him. A real nasty piece of work.

Oh so you think cancer is good? You're a lowlife, I doubt any cancer sufferer in the world would ever forgive you for that!!!

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Re: Tour de France

Postby Donny B. » August 27th, 2012, 12:01 pm

Yeah Lance was always first to call on the cancer card anytime anyone dared criticise him. He was quite vicious in dealing with anyone who crossed him, labelling a masseuse who testified against him a "prostitute and a drug user". He got away with it for years due to the compliance of the UCI and the mostly fawning media who were too scared of him and his power to take him on (Kimmage, David Walsh and am number of French journalists being the honorable exceptions).

By the way why are the media continually reporting his line about never failing a drugs test. He did fail a test in 1999 and the UCI allowed him to cover it up with a post-dated clearance slip.
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Re: Tour de France

Postby artaneboy » August 29th, 2012, 11:25 pm

It's funny (peculiar not ha-ha) to remember how even the media seemed to be complicit in the toleration of drug taking. I distinctly recall one occasion in the mid to late 80s when Roche and Kelly were prominent, a Channel 4 commentary team commenting caustically on the then prominent French cyclist Charlie Mottet's unwillingness to go the extra mile to be a real competitor for the Tour. Mottet, who was a regular winner in the shorter tours (Switzerland et al) and Classics was later revealed as being one of the few top guys not to indulge in doping. So I'm assuming that the lack of commitment was a euphemism for not going for the needle pre and during the Tour, when the going got hot.

But part of me wonders if the Tour was ever clean? I mean it's so damn long (used to even longer) that it seems designed to only be do-able if you’re on dope of some sort or being towed around on cars or by unfortunate domestiques- apparently was frequently the way in the period up to mass TV coverage in the early 80s.
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Re: Tour de France

Postby Dexter » August 30th, 2012, 1:06 pm

There was a big piece in the Sunday Times Sports paper last weekend by David Walsh. There's obviously a lot of history between the two of them, but it was an interesting read for someone like me who hadn't followed the whole thing very closely. He certainly didn't paint him in a very good light and if even half the stuff is true about his behaviour then he's a nasty piece of work.

There also seems to be podcast on Newstalk:
http://www.newstalk.ie/2012/sport/david ... s-anymore/
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