Punch Drunk - the boxing thread

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Re: Punch Drunk - the boxing thread

Postby Peg Leg » October 15th, 2013, 10:37 am

Broken Wing wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:It would seem that this is the pathway cleared for the pro's competing in 2016.
Enjoy it while you can, amateur boxing is on its way out.

There are other steps being taken to allow pros return to compete in the Olympics and to allow amateurs compete as professionals but remain amateur. The APB is the biggest step but the lack of headgear and the scoring is a follow on from the way thigns are done in the WSB. Really it's an attempt ot allwo amateurs make a living from the sport while remaining amateur.

From AIBA:
In the fall of 2013 the launch of APB – AIBA Pro Boxing – will change the way professional boxing events are organized and run across the world.
APB will open up new horizons for boxers seeking to pursue their dreams as pros, within a transparent competition structure. For the first time, professional boxers can plan and track their career – backed fully by AIBA – and look forward to consistent support from their National Federations in return.

Will that not lead to- go pro or be cast aside?
Surely the IABA would have to spend more to keep less, on the books?
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Re: Punch Drunk - the boxing thread

Postby Broken Wing » October 15th, 2013, 11:02 am

I'm not sure how they intend to have it work yet but there's a fair bit of scepticism around it. no doubt we'll knwo more when they officially launch it.

Ray Moylette won his opening bout so the Irish team are 3/3. I don't have the judges scores for either fight this morning as the AIBA website is a mess. According to Ken Egan it was a close fight and Ray wasn't too happy with his performance either.
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Re: Punch Drunk - the boxing thread

Postby Broken Wing » October 16th, 2013, 10:26 am

Ray Moylette won 2-1 with a scoreline of 27-30, 29-28, 29-28.
Sean McComb won 3-0 (30-27, 30-27, 30-26) and made the AIBA's daily roundup "one to watch" slot.
One to watch
Sean McComb of Ireland looks like a boxer to watch this year. He dropped his opponent Almog Briga of Israel in just twenty seconds into his opening round. The Israeli got up and returned fire extremely well, however scoring with heavy looking overhand lefts. The Irish boxer began to work out how to avoid these and scored a second knockdown with an uppercut in the third with just one second left on the clock to take the victory. "He hit very hard over the top, but in between rounds, my coach said to start circling more rather than just stepping back and that's when I started avoiding them. I was a lot more comfortable then".


Yesterday saw the first boxer DQ'd for a cut with England's Light Welterweight Samuel Maxwell stopped in the 3rd round. At the time the bout was even at 20-18, 19-19, 18-20.

Adam Nolan is in the ring around 3.30 against France's Souleymane Cissokho. A win for him will see all Irish boxers through to the last 32 of their weights.

Updated schedule:
October 18th
52kg Paddy Barnes v Milos Baltic (Serbia)
64kg Ray Moylette v Ermek Sakenov (Kyrgystan)
91kg Tommy McCarthy v Samir El-Mais (Canada)

October 19th
56kg Michael Conlan v Kriszthan Nagy (Hungary) or Helsham Abdelaal (Egypt)
75kg Jason Quigley v Vijender (India (AIBA) or Hampus Henriksson (Sweden)
91+kg Con Sheehan v Yohanndi Ortega (Cuba)

October 20th
60kg Sean McComb v Gildas Bangana (Central African Republic)
81kg Joe Ward v Mateusz Tryc (Poland) or Rauf Rahimov (Azerbaijan)
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Re: Punch Drunk - the boxing thread

Postby Broken Wing » October 16th, 2013, 10:39 am

I was mis-informed on Adam Nolan's fight time. He's just finished and, from what I can make out on the maze that is the AIBA site, lost 2-1 (27-30, 29-28, 29-28).
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Re: Punch Drunk - the boxing thread

Postby Peg Leg » October 16th, 2013, 10:58 am

You're going to have to explain the 10/9 scoring system to me again??
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Re: Punch Drunk - the boxing thread

Postby Broken Wing » October 16th, 2013, 12:11 pm

There are three judges scoring the fight. The 10/9 means that the judge must award 10 points to the fighter they thought won the round and 9 to the other. If the round is a draw then it is scored 10/10. If a fighter is knocked down they lose a point. Knocked down twice they lose 2 (A 3rd knockdown in a round usually results in the fight being stopped but that's specified before professional bouts). That can result in a 10-7 score (winner gets 10, loser gets 9 and then drops 1 for each knockdown). Fighters can also be deducted points by the ref for a foul.

The judges are seated at different points around the outside of the ring meaning they don't all see the same thing. That was a bit of an issue under the old scoring system because points were scored for clean punches (i.e. Red lands the face of a glove on the body or head of Blue). When the judges saw a clean hit they would hit the red or blue button accordingly and if two or three (when there were five judges) of them hit the same coloured button within a quick time span a point was awarded. Under that system judge 1 might see a hook to the body but because of the position of the boxers and judges no other judge might see it as a clean hit and the boxer misses out on a point.

Under 10/9 the judges award the round to the boxer they think won the round. The round winner is determined by more than just clean shots. They also take into account the aggressiveness of the boxers, the ring control of the boxers and the defence. Under this system most onlookers think the boxer moving forward and throwing the most punches will win the round but if the opponent is slipping the punches or catching them on the gloves while counter punching and moving away then it's not so clear. Red might have Blue against the ropes and be hammering in punches but if Blue is comfortably taking them on the gloves and arms then Red is just wasting energy. Again, three judges see three different fights which is why the socrecards differ and having judged a few fights I can say that what I see and what the other judges see can differ quite a bit.

Paddy Barnes reckons Adam Nolan was robbed "after beating the French man around the ring". He may well have been but not having seen the fight I can't really comment.
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Re: Punch Drunk - the boxing thread

Postby Peg Leg » October 16th, 2013, 2:31 pm

Thanks BW, the new system seems a little more arbitrary than it's predecessor.
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Re: Punch Drunk - the boxing thread

Postby Broken Wing » October 16th, 2013, 2:43 pm

It's a lot more subjective but it also means that a boxer is rewarded for heavy punches. A punch that actually hurts an opponent, or knocks them down, is worth a lot more to a boxer now than it was under the old system where a solid punch and a light jab were valued equally.

They've been using this scoring system in the WSB since it started and it will be used in the APB as well.

Just wait until they tell the women that they have to keep the headgear on...
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Re: Punch Drunk - the boxing thread

Postby Lar » October 16th, 2013, 4:13 pm

Nolan actually scored 96 points to his opponents 95 in total but loses the tie because two judges thought the other guy won when only one gave it to Nolan. Inherent flaw in this marking system imo.
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Re: Punch Drunk - the boxing thread

Postby Broken Wing » October 16th, 2013, 4:30 pm

86 and 85 (maximum points is 90) but it's not cumulative. It's a per judge score and 2 judges said the French guy won. It's the same system that's been used in professional boxing for years and there are debates about close fights all the time due to the subjective nature of the scoring (or the fight taking place in Vegas) but, as yet, there is no perfect scoring system.
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Re: Punch Drunk - the boxing thread

Postby Lar » October 17th, 2013, 2:08 pm

I would just like to add (seeing as I could not do so before) that I do not and have never worked in the banking industry.
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Re: Punch Drunk - the boxing thread

Postby Broken Wing » October 18th, 2013, 9:49 am

Paddy Barnes strolls through to the last 16 winning 3-0 (29-28, 29-28, 30-27). Not bad for his first fight at this weight. Since my first post on these world championships I've learned that shifting weights meant Paddy was able to carry a percentage of his rating and it was enough to see him seeded.
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Re: Punch Drunk - the boxing thread

Postby Broken Wing » October 18th, 2013, 10:52 am

No luck for Ray Moylette. Still waiting for the scores but the live scoring had him 20-18 down on all judges' cards after 2.
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Re: Punch Drunk - the boxing thread

Postby Broken Wing » October 18th, 2013, 4:26 pm

Tommy McCarthy wins a split decision 2-1 (30-27, 28-29, 28-29) and progress to the final 16.
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Re: Punch Drunk - the boxing thread

Postby Broken Wing » October 21st, 2013, 10:52 am

Following the weekend Ireland have six boxers down to the last 16.

Con Sheehan lost out to the Cuban fighter on Saturday while Conlan, Quigley, McComb and Ward all won.

October 21st
56kg Michael Conlan v Brian Gonzalez (Mexico)
75kg Jason Quigley v Aston Brown (Scotland)
91kg Tommy McCarthy v Emir Ahmatovic (Germany)

October 22nd
52kg Paddy Barnes v Simon Nzioki (Kenya)
60kg Seam McComb v Elvin Isayev (Azerbaijan)
81kg Joe Ward v Norbert Harsca (Hungary)
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Re: Punch Drunk - the boxing thread

Postby Broken Wing » October 21st, 2013, 11:53 am

Conlan wins (3-0: 30-27, 30-27, 30-27) as does Jason Quigley (3-0: 30-27, 30-27, 29:28) meaning they both progess to the 1/4 finals and are just one win away from a medal.

Tommy McCarthy is the second last fight in the later session.
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Re: Punch Drunk - the boxing thread

Postby Broken Wing » October 21st, 2013, 3:56 pm

Tommy McCarthy beat the 2nd seed German to progress to the last 8. That's 3 from 3 today.

I believe RTÉ will be showing last 8 fights live.
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Re: Punch Drunk - the boxing thread

Postby Broken Wing » October 22nd, 2013, 12:22 pm

Sean McComb lost out 2-1 (29-28, 28-29, 27-30) but Joe Ward advances 3-0 (30-27, 30-27, 30-26) to the last 16.

Paddy Barnes is in action this afternoon against the unseeded Kenyan Simon Nzioki.

The Quarter Finals are tomorrow.

56kg Michael Conlan (2) v Vladimir Nikitin (10) (Russia)
75kg Jason Quigley (5) v Zoltan Harsca (4) (Hungary)
81kg Joe Ward (6) v Nikita Ivanov (3) (Russia) - this is a repeat of the 2011 European final which Joe won
91kg Tomy McCarthy (unseeded) v Yamil Peralta (2) (Argentina)
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Re: Punch Drunk - the boxing thread

Postby Broken Wing » October 22nd, 2013, 2:37 pm

Paddy Barnes stops the Kenyan in the 1st round to make it 5 Irish boxers fighting for medals tomorrow.
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Re: Punch Drunk - the boxing thread

Postby Broken Wing » October 23rd, 2013, 10:23 am

Conlan loses out 3-0.
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