General GAA thread

[Donny B.]

What the hell was Keaney thinking going for a point from the penalty chance?

The right call, IMO. You take points when you can get them. That early in the game, Dublin were more than living with KK; they didn't need the "sucker blow" at that stage, and they certainly didn't need to come away with zero points. Later in the match (time, or score difference, wise), I'd probably agree.

Dublin managed to strangle KK's flow for most of the game. Had they had more confidence, the first-touch issues wouldn't have been as profound and would have complimented their strong defensive tactics nicely. KK would still have won, but Dublin would have been a lot closer on the scoreboard, and a lot closer to a display they're capable of. Consistency of the mind; it's what Daly couldn't do for Dublin (in all his time there), and nor for Clare when he was manager. He gets lots of stuff right, but putting it all together seems to be a problem (which is not all his fault).

Dublin don't score that many goals so when you've a chance to get one early in the game, you have to go for it in my view. A goal might have created some belief, meekly taking a point just emphasised how fearful they were of Kilkenny, which wasn't the attitude they showed in either of the games last season. I wouldn't agree that "Dublin managed to strangle KK's flow for most of the game" either. If they had, the Dublin goalie wouldn't have been MOM. There was some good defending from Dublin close in but Kilkenny were able to pick off long range points throughout the game.

[Avenger]

That early in the game, Dublin were more than living with KK; they didn't need the "sucker blow" at that stage, and they certainly didn't need to come away with zero points.

I don't agree with that at all. Its 4 minutes in. You have nothing to lose IMO. If you miss - and remember its a penalty so the odds are on you scoring - but if you miss, you have almost the entire game to recover.

[Avenger]

Now, for the rest of the summer! Clare won't get a chance to meet them, on current form, Limerick just not consistently good enough, and discounting all others bar Cork or Tipp. Tipp need to get in to the swing of it, they were really impressive once Galway had run out of ideas (and an impressive latter stage of league). Cork look to be even more polished this year (not great against Clare, but still a well-oiled team performance; something KK lacked until yesterday). KK v Cork in the final? Unless Davy has more Miwadi and biscuits up his sleeve (it's all part of the master plan for back-to-back AIs, you know).

Galway have been the disappointment of the championship again. I presume we'll be seeing a change of management here. They are nowhere near the level they reached in 2012.

Clare dodged a bullet on Saturday evening and sometimes that gives a team the jolt they need. They are All Ireland champions after all so I wouldn't write them off but they do need a lot of improvement. I'd expect them to comfortably beat Wexford in the replay.

Limerick are Munster champions and were comfortable in beating Tipp. We'll know more once they play Cork but I they have a lot of ability so I'm hopeful that they can kick on.

Cork look better than they were last year but its still only one game. Again we'll know more after the Munster final.

Kilkenny have 6 weeks of flying in to each other down in Nolan park now and with Mick Fennally and Ritchie Power to come back and Shefflin to gain fitness I'm happy enough about where they are. The draw with Galway was possibly the best thing to happen to them... if they had hammered Offaly, Galway and Dublin I'd have been very nervous going in to an All Ireland semi-final.

Tipp is the hard one to call. Very poor in defeat to Limerick and no great shakes in the first 50 minutes against Galway but finished very strong. I was listening on radio 1 and they were going way OTT post match about Tipp as potential All Ireland winners IMO.

[meinster]

Dublin don't score that many goals so when you've a chance to get one early in the game, you have to go for it in my view.

But, in my view, that's why not to go for it. They don't get many, they're playing reasonably well in the opening few minutes, and KK have gone a point or two up. Do you need the boost of a goal (not yet, IMO), and is it worth the risk of coming away with nothing (no, IMO).

Dublin did strangle KK's running game. If they didn't there'd be a lot more points, and a lot more scorers too (and, presumably, a few goals in the mix too; Nolan isn't God). So they were set up well in defence, and we'd be commending them on that if their first touch was better, to reap some reward from their chances up front. There's a balance of being realistic versus being scared. Maybe Dublin were too much on the scared side, but if they didn't shore up in defence it was all over inside 15 minutes, as KK have so often done (incl. to Dublin). So in that sense, being a lot tighter (for a lot of the game, not all of it, when man-marking seemed to disappear for long periods) is something they changed for damage limitation (versus a few of the league games, when they were really shipping ball, incl. the game against Clare). I think Daly was right in that regard, even if it's negative (and maybe that did spill in to the mindset). Small margins!

[meinster]

Galway have....

Agreed on all that, I think. Clare have had a couple of jolts, with zero effect unfortunately; next week (even with Wexford's U21 being rested, or useless, whichever) will tell a lot.

[nelly the elephant]

The Cats superb today in the Leinster Final......

I wouldn't say superb. Always comfortable but still lots to work on. Have to agree to disagree on the term superb.....from where I was sitting that was my impression
Some great individual performances though. Brain Hogan, JJ and Buckley were immense. If Ritchie Hogan is not careful he could end up being hurler of the year and TJ racked up another big personal tally. Nice to see Sheff coming on and getting some nice touches. And while Larkin only scored a point the amount of work he puts in for the team is very pleasing to see from a fans POV. Eoin Larkin personifies the personality of Kilkenny hurling.

Nolan was excellent for Dublin and his matter of fact post match interview on The Sunday game was very refreshing to see also.

I agree...it was refreshing.....he should have been very disappointed and he was. He had a great game...I shudder to think what the final score might have been. Daly's despondency in the interview afterwards is probably due to him thinking the same thing.....

[JB1973]

Are Kerry a team on the rise again? that was some hiding they dished out to cork !

Dublin look a very big powerful side , are the likes of Mayo and Kerry going to be strong enough to stop them?

[nelly the elephant]

Are Kerry a team on the rise again? that was some hiding they dished out to cork !

Dublin look a very big powerful side , are the likes of Mayo and Kerry going to be strong enough to stop them?

For Kerry in football read Kilkenny in hurling............the old maxim applies.....They haven't gone away you know!

I don't know if many saw that result coming at Páirc uí Chaoimh on Sunday but you write off a county with a tradition as strong as Kerry's at your peril. Most teams would miss a player of the Gooch's genius from their panel and who knows, not having him, Tomás Ó Sé and Galvin around might be the difference further on in the championship-It's still Kerry we're talking about though........they breed footballers down there and in Fitzmaurice they have a hell of a manager imho.

They'll take some stopping(as they do every year)

[JB1973]

I hope so Kerry would be my football team, but I still don't think they'll win it this year. Wouldn't back against Kilkenny in the hurling though, would cork be their biggest threat?

[cormac]

Are Kerry a team on the rise again? that was some hiding they dished out to cork !

Dublin look a very big powerful side , are the likes of Mayo and Kerry going to be strong enough to stop them?

Kerry played well but Cork are a shambles. Cork can play some nice football when they're under no pressure, but once the opposition gets on top they just crumble. Happened in the league semi-final in April against Dublin who engineered a 17-point second half turnaround and again on Sunday. They went 30 minutes during the first half without scoring having kicked the first two points of the game.

Kerry look to have a handy enough draw for the quarter-finals, probably facing Galway or a qualifier (one from Sligo, Laois, Limerick or Tipperary), hardly a terrifying prospect. Mayo will probably await in the semi-final and that looks like being their first real test.

[nelly the elephant]

I hope so Kerry would be my football team, but I still don't think they'll win it this year. Wouldn't back against Kilkenny in the hurling though, would cork be their biggest threat?

Going on current form shown since the championship started then yes, I would agree that Cork look best placed to challenge them. Clare have been disappointing and I don't hold with the view that they'll win the replay handy against Wexford on Saturday.

[JB1973]

saw highlights of the wexford vs Waterford hurling game on sky last night, some match that.

I'm switching my hurling allegiance to Wexford now , cmon the model! (sounds better than yellow bellies that's for sure)

[Avenger]

Wouldn't back against Kilkenny in the hurling though, would cork be their biggest threat?

Going on current form shown since the championship started then yes, I would agree that Cork look best placed to challenge them.

For me, Cork are current favourites for the hurling championship.

[Donny B.]

A sad end for Daly if it's his final game in charge, which seems likely.
It's clear now that most of this team don't have the core skill levels to compete at the really highest level. Daly has done well to win two trophies with a team that are fine athletes but ordinary hurlers.
It will hurt him that, for all their talk, they went out with two such gutless performances. Even if they can't play, he'd have expected them to front up physically but they didn't even do that.

As well as a new manager Dublin badly need some new players to come through. Having success at under-age is all well and good but when all these players (Costello, Kilkenny, Lownes) end up choosing Football, is there any point in playing them?

Liam Rushe was the only one who really showed up yesterday and you'd hope Danny Sutcliffe can recover his form. The Schuttes are promising players too and you'd hope Peter Kelly can come back after a horrendous championship. They're pretty well stocked at goal-keeper too with Nolan and Maguire.

Other than that, the rest of the team look like they've had their day.

[offshorerules]

I think you also have to take into account the amount of players they could have had but instead chose football. 6 wasn't it? Not too many teams could afford that.

[nelly the elephant]

A sad end for Daly if it's his final game in charge, which seems likely.
It's clear now that most of this team don't have the core skill levels to compete at the really highest level. Daly has done well to win two trophies with a team that are fine athletes but ordinary hurlers.
It will hurt him that, for all their talk, they went out with two such gutless performances. Even if they can't play, he'd have expected them to front up physically but they didn't even do that.

As well as a new manager Dublin badly need some new players to come through. Having success at under-age is all well and good but when all these players (Costello, Kilkenny, Lownes) end up choosing Football, is there any point in playing them?

Liam Rushe was the only one who really showed up yesterday and you'd hope Danny Sutcliffe can recover his form. The Schuttes are promising players too and you'd hope Peter Kelly can come back after a horrendous championship. They're pretty well stocked at goal-keeper too with Nolan and Maguire.

Other than that, the rest of the team look like they've had their day.

I would largely agree with that Donny with a couple of exceptions.....I think he did a good job overall and yes, I assume he'll be gone before next season. We peaked last year truth be told and 2 All Ireland SF's(very unlucky last year V Cork) in 3 years and first Leinster title in 50 years are decent achievements given our level before he arrived. I'd agree on the players...high hopes still for Treacy & Cronin becoming serious players and can see Keaney play another couple of years further back(CHB maybe?) On yesterday, whilst he had some problems in the first half I thought Peter Kelly was vastly improved after the break and broke up a number of attacks. As regards the fight being shown, all I can say is you mustn't have seen much of Wexford in the first match. At least we DID keep battling away when we were obviously on a hiding to nothing...possession for the ball was fiercely contested all afternoon....in stark contrast to the Wexford team who showed very little fight. Maybe they were knackered, who knows, but they were a shambles and a disgrace...I felt sorry for their many loyal supporters who'd made the trip to Thurles.

[Donny B.]

A sad end for Daly if it's his final game in charge, which seems likely.
It's clear now that most of this team don't have the core skill levels to compete at the really highest level. Daly has done well to win two trophies with a team that are fine athletes but ordinary hurlers.
It will hurt him that, for all their talk, they went out with two such gutless performances. Even if they can't play, he'd have expected them to front up physically but they didn't even do that.

As well as a new manager Dublin badly need some new players to come through. Having success at under-age is all well and good but when all these players (Costello, Kilkenny, Lownes) end up choosing Football, is there any point in playing them?

Liam Rushe was the only one who really showed up yesterday and you'd hope Danny Sutcliffe can recover his form. The Schuttes are promising players too and you'd hope Peter Kelly can come back after a horrendous championship. They're pretty well stocked at goal-keeper too with Nolan and Maguire.

Other than that, the rest of the team look like they've had their day.

I would largely agree with that Donny with a couple of exceptions.....I think he did a good job overall and yes, I assume he'll be gone before next season. We peaked last year truth be told and 2 All Ireland SF's(very unlucky last year V Cork) in 3 years and first Leinster title in 50 years are decent achievements given our level before he arrived. I'd agree on the players...high hopes still for Treacy & Cronin becoming serious players and can see Keaney play another couple of years further back(CHB maybe?) On yesterday, whilst he had some problems in the first half I thought Peter Kelly was vastly improved after the break and broke up a number of attacks. As regards the fight being shown, all I can say is you mustn't have seen much of Wexford in the first match. At least we DID keep battling away when we were obviously on a hiding to nothing...possession for the ball was fiercely contested all afternoon....in stark contrast to the Wexford team who showed very little fight. Maybe they were knackered, who knows, but they were a shambles and a disgrace...I felt sorry for their many loyal supporters who'd made the trip to Thurles.

Kelly is a good player but some of his play this year has been frankly embarrassing for an all-star. Cronin was very quiet on Sunday but was decent at other times in the championship and could still develop. Treacy I'm not so sure about, he's only 24 but has been on the scene a good while now and too often the game seems to pass him by. Keaney is a frustrating player who too often talks a better game than he plays. He'll probably still be around, but the new manager would be wise not to rely on him as a talisman. When the game's going against him he's inclined to fade badly.

As for comparing Dublin to Wexford, I'm not sure what the point of that is. Wexford are a young team that had played five weeks in a row and young teams can collapse like that. They'll still be a lot more positive about their season than Dublin will. They were hammered by a fine Limerick team but at least they still are a team of hurlers.

We've seen that Dublin team compensate for their skills shortage in the past by showing real fight and a physical presence but we saw none of that in the last two games. They looked a beaten team as soon as Tipp got any sort of lead and the frustrating thing was that Tipp didn't even play that well, by their own admission. They didn't have to though because Dublin didn't show up again and considering all the guff the Dublin players talked about making up for the non-performance in the Leinster final, that's pretty unforgivable especially for the travelling fans like yourself.

[nelly the elephant]

A sad end for Daly if it's his final game in charge, which seems likely.
It's clear now that most of this team don't have the core skill levels to compete at the really highest level. Daly has done well to win two trophies with a team that are fine athletes but ordinary hurlers.
It will hurt him that, for all their talk, they went out with two such gutless performances. Even if they can't play, he'd have expected them to front up physically but they didn't even do that.

As well as a new manager Dublin badly need some new players to come through. Having success at under-age is all well and good but when all these players (Costello, Kilkenny, Lownes) end up choosing Football, is there any point in playing them?

Liam Rushe was the only one who really showed up yesterday and you'd hope Danny Sutcliffe can recover his form. The Schuttes are promising players too and you'd hope Peter Kelly can come back after a horrendous championship. They're pretty well stocked at goal-keeper too with Nolan and Maguire.

Other than that, the rest of the team look like they've had their day.

I would largely agree with that Donny with a couple of exceptions.....I think he did a good job overall and yes, I assume he'll be gone before next season. We peaked last year truth be told and 2 All Ireland SF's(very unlucky last year V Cork) in 3 years and first Leinster title in 50 years are decent achievements given our level before he arrived. I'd agree on the players...high hopes still for Treacy & Cronin becoming serious players and can see Keaney play another couple of years further back(CHB maybe?) On yesterday, whilst he had some problems in the first half I thought Peter Kelly was vastly improved after the break and broke up a number of attacks. As regards the fight being shown, all I can say is you mustn't have seen much of Wexford in the first match. At least we DID keep battling away when we were obviously on a hiding to nothing...possession for the ball was fiercely contested all afternoon....in stark contrast to the Wexford team who showed very little fight. Maybe they were knackered, who knows, but they were a shambles and a disgrace...I felt sorry for their many loyal supporters who'd made the trip to Thurles.

Kelly is a good player but some of his play this year has been frankly embarrassing for an all-star. Cronin was very quiet on Sunday but was decent at other times in the championship and could still develop. Treacy I'm not so sure about, he's only 24 but has been on the scene a good while now and too often the game seems to pass him by. Keaney is a frustrating player who too often talks a better game than he plays. He'll probably still be around, but the new manager would be wise not to rely on him as a talisman. When the game's going against him he's inclined to fade badly.

As for comparing Dublin to Wexford, I'm not sure what the point of that is. Wexford are a young team that had played five weeks in a row and young teams can collapse like that. They'll still be a lot more positive about their season than Dublin will. They were hammered by a fine Limerick team but at least they still are a team of hurlers.

We've seen that Dublin team compensate for their skills shortage in the past by showing real fight and a physical presence but we saw none of that in the last two games. They looked a beaten team as soon as Tipp got any sort of lead and the frustrating thing was that Tipp didn't even play that well, by their own admission. They didn't have to though because Dublin didn't show up again and considering all the guff the Dublin players talked about making up for the non-performance in the Leinster final, that's pretty unforgivable especially for the travelling fans like yourself.

To clarify, due to work commitments etc I didn't get to see any of the pre match stuff in the papers. Having read only this morning Daly's interview in Sunday's Independent and the coverage in Saturday's I Times I can see your point about the promises made about an improved performance. In light of that commitment to be much better I can see how the disappointment is more acute.
I still stick by my original view though that Dublin competed throughout the game a lot better than Wexford. I also think the comparison is a valid one as these are All Ireland Quarter Finals at the end of the day and we should measure all teams equally by the same standard...no need for asterisks next to one team for "played 5 weeks in-a-row" "young team learning" etc etc They are, I agree, a better team of hurlers than Dublin...I rather feel we have traded a bit of stickwork and skill over Daly's tenure in favour of strength and athleticism (to counteract Kilkenny?)
Anyway...here's to the future and the hope of producing good seniors(with appropriate skill levels) via the Minors & U21's.

[Donny B.]

To clarify, due to work commitments etc I didn't get to see any of the pre match stuff in the papers. Having read only this morning Daly's interview in Sunday's Independent and the coverage in Saturday's I Times I can see your point about the promises made about an improved performance. In light of that commitment to be much better I can see how the disappointment is more acute.
I still stick by my original view though that Dublin competed throughout the game a lot better than Wexford. I also think the comparison is a valid one as these are All Ireland Quarter Finals at the end of the day and we should measure all teams equally by the same standard...no need for asterisks next to one team for "played 5 weeks in-a-row" "young team learning" etc etc They are, I agree, a better team of hurlers than Dublin...I rather feel we have traded a bit of stickwork and skill over Daly's tenure in favour of strength and athleticism (to counteract Kilkenny?)
Anyway...here's to the future and the hope of producing good seniors(with appropriate skill levels) via the Minors & U21's.

Indeed. But the problem of most of the good minor hurlers going off to play football isn't going away unfortunately.
That said, the numbers of kids actually playing hurling in Dublin has risen massively in the last ten years so hopefully the pool to select from will grow too.
It will probably take a few more years for that generation to come through but this was the first Dublin team in decades to even compete with the big boys.
I can remember, not that long ago, when no one really gave a shite either amongst the fans or at the county board and a Dublin hurler couldn't get arrested in this town.
At least Daly and this team has improved the team's profile, brought some silverware and given younger guys something to aspire to.
You want the next generation to want to be the next Liam Rushe or Danny Sutcliffe and not just see hurling as a fallback if the football doesn't work out.

[JB1973]

Could some one explain to the uninitiated (eg myself) why Dublin can be so strong at the football , yet rarely challenge in the hurling? Also the ulster counties seem to be pretty average at hurling as well?

Is Hurling played in less counties or something?