Euro 2012 C'mon Ireland

[Darce]

So Roy Keane wasn't impressed. Well what's he going to do about it? Where's the Roy Keane Footballing academy to train up future Irish internationals? What League of Ireland side is he managing to demonstrate how things should be done? Nothing but bluster from the walk away king.

Doesn't make him wrong...

[Broken Wing]

So what? There's not a football pundit in the country that can't see what's wrong. At least Dunphy and Giles made an effort to improve the standing of Irish football when they managed Shamrock Rovers. Keane is just saying the same as dozens of others but the Roy worship means people somehow think it's special when he says it.

If Keane was to mange a LoI side (it's not like he's busy) he would draw a crowd just by being there which would boost the league. Until the domestic league gets to a decent level Ireland just won't have a place for decent players to be nurtured and developed and without that the national side is reliant on the players that make it at some level in England. With the money in England the big clubs can afford to look further afield so the number of Irish players is dropping. How many play regularly for the top four?

Managing a side Keane could try to implement the football he thinks Ireland can do and do well. Do it successfully and maybe others will follow. There's no point expecting the change to happen at the top. We've seen how Spain do it and there's not one single reason why a LoI side can't play that way and train their players and academy to play that way. It's all well and good shouting the odds about how Ireland aren't up to it but Keane is in a position to do something about it.

[lummix]

The league of ireland should be abandoned.They should take the 3 best teams and look to establish them in a different league with higher standards. Perhaps get 2 teams into the Scottish league or a Celtic league of some description or would they let a Dublin based team enter the lower leagues of English football and try and work up from there. You could then pump money into these 2 or 3 clubs and try to produce genuine international players who play in Ireland at a decent level rather than that shambles they put on rte once a week.

[Broken Wing]

Unfortunately that's a nonrunner. It's a decent domestic league that's needed. Sporting Fingal was an example, albeit a failed one, of a way to go. Local clubs acting as feeder clubs to LoI clubs so that there is plenty of local football but with the better players moving along to the higher standards. The coaching needs to be shared so that a club philosophy is shared and everyone is working towards the same goal.

[lummix]

The problem is that they will never be able to sustain a decent domestic. We don't have the player numbers, fans finance etc. To sustain it. If you had say 2 teams in Dublin and 1 in cork we could channel our finances into them establishing decent playing/training facilitiesand standards of coaching, the other clubs in the country could continue as ametur status and could Feed players into the main teams. They would need to get into another league but where there's a will there's a way.

[fourthirtythree]

So Roy Keane wasn't impressed. Well what's he going to do about it? Where's the Roy Keane Footballing academy to train up future Irish internationals? What League of Ireland side is he managing to demonstrate how things should be done? Nothing but bluster from the walk away king.

Doesn't make him wrong...

No but failing to turn up does make him uniquely unqualified to criticise anyone else for not "turning up" just as his complete absence of positive personal qualities meant he was an abject failure at managing. Put simply, he can criticise others, but he has no real solution to anything other than "everyone else is wrong". He has no insight as an analyst. He is incapable of learning. He has no lessons to offer. But because he is an overpaid sports star he also has an emormous sense of entitlement to go with the outrageous chips he carries on his shoulders.

He could kick a ball (and other footballers) but he really is the bottom of the barrel as a human being. I wish he would just go away and spend his millions on his dogs or something and we wouldn't have to hear him complaining about how rubbish everyone else is.

[Darce]

Look, at the end of the day, this is not about LOI or finances or anything the sort.

The very fact of the matter is that all 4 goals last night (and indeed the other 3 before that) were eminently defendable. It's not okay to give away such cheap goals at this level. Sure, Spain would have found a way but by God, we didn't need to help them do it.

And Keane is right, it's not okay to just accept our lot and say its okay because the fans were great. As if that was some consolation for being Hammered. Whether you like Keane or not is a seperate issue but he is right. As an aside, lets not forget, he signed and brought over lads from LOI to play in England for him. By giving them the chance to play at that level, is that not improving the pool of players available?

The broader point he is making is that as long as we accept this, then we will continue to get the same outcomes. We should be asking questions of tactics, selection and individual performances.

If GT isn't willing to fully bring through the likes of Coleman, Shane Duffy, Clarke, McCartney, McClean, Hoolihan, Shane Long, etc then he needs to be removed.

[Darce]

So Roy Keane wasn't impressed. Well what's he going to do about it? Where's the Roy Keane Footballing academy to train up future Irish internationals? What League of Ireland side is he managing to demonstrate how things should be done? Nothing but bluster from the walk away king.

Doesn't make him wrong...

No but failing to turn up does make him uniquely unqualified to criticise anyone else for not "turning up" just as his complete absence of positive personal qualities meant he was an abject failure at managing. Put simply, he can criticise others, but he has no real solution to anything other than "everyone else is wrong". He has no insight as an analyst. He is incapable of learning. He has no lessons to offer. But because he is an overpaid sports star he also has an emormous sense of entitlement to go with the outrageous chips he carries on his shoulders.

He could kick a ball (and other footballers) but he really is the bottom of the barrel as a human being. I wish he would just go away and spend his millions on his dogs or something and we wouldn't have to hear him complaining about how rubbish everyone else is.

But can you say he is wrong? Is he wrong in saying that the team underperformed? To my mind, this team is better than what we have seen this past week

[fourthirtythree]

But can you say he is wrong? Is he wrong in saying that the team underperformed? To my mind, this team is better than what we have seen this past week

I'm not sure the team are that much better than we've seen this week. There aren't many players on that team that would get onto the pitch at any of the other tournaments we've been to. Sure we've always had a Chris Morris or a Gary Breen along. This time we've a team of Gary Breens and has beens. It's tough but true.

They've looked clapped out and short of energy like the Ireland rugby team in '07 though. Perhaps the knowledge that getting to the tournament is as good as it was going to get for them crept into them. Perhaps the simple fact that they know they're no good undermined their confidence. We adopted a pragmatic game plan that scraped us into the finals. We have nothing to offer there. Not only is this team short on basic skills they also don't look physically robust enough to play a proper pressing game. Spain were all action last night, we were flat. It wouldn't have mattered much, a win would have required a huge collapse in form from Spain and a fluke or two from us. The gulf is bigger than that between the rugby team and NZ.

[Donny B.]

Maybe they are capable of better but we'll never know under this manager. We fluked our way to the finals by getting lucky draws and a large number of other results going our way. Then we got the easiest play-off match possible. But we did so playing the worst type of football Ireland have ever played. Even under Charlton, if it wasn't pretty it was at least positive, it wasn't like he went out playing for draws.

Take off the green jerseys and what are we? A team that plays shite football that's painful to watch. In terms of football karma we got what we deserved, a proper stuffing from two teams that play the game as it should be played.

EDIT: Comment removed after reading Keane's actual comments.

[Broken Wing]

And Keane is right, it's not okay to just accept our lot and say its okay because the fans were great.

Who's is saying it's OK? Who's happy with the performance and saying we were just happy to be there?

The broader point he is making is that as long as we accept this, then we will continue to get the same outcomes. We should be asking questions of tactics, selection and individual performances.

Again, who's accepting it? There have been questions on tactics, selection and performance all through the qualifiers. This is nothing new. This is those who didn't really pay attention until Ireland qualified being shocked at how badly they performed against the World and European champions. Who honestly thought Ireland would get out of that group when they saw the draw? Certainly none of the fans I spoke to who attended home and away matches during the qualification and have done for years under Jack, Mick, Brian and Stan before. They still went to Poland though and celebrated being part of the European top 16 tournament and I don't see a thing wrong with that.

Think of the majority of people who were shocked by Ireland in 2007. How many of them had watched Ireland in the 6N and international tests leading up to that and not seen the danger signs because they were casual supporters and high on optimism? This is the same situation. Ireland under performed but, just like 2007 (and 2011), the national coach got a 2 year extension before the tournament so we're getting more of the same in the World Cup qualifiers where we'll be fighting Sweden for a play off place behind Germany. People who follow the team know this. People who get excited around the big tournaments don't so they see Roy as a beacon of sense when he's really saying nothing new.

[fourthirtythree]

Obviously you want them to do well because they're Ireland. But you wouldn't want to be forced to watch them. In fact it kind of is a clockwork orange situation whenever I'm watching repuberlick.

I actually would rather we tried to play football and failed to qualify than that shite. I really would.

But unlike Kidney he simply doesn't have the materials to fashion a decent side so he does have that excuse. Kidney has none and nobody demonstrates the gulf between club and test rugby that he likes to talk about better than he does.

[Dexter]

I don't think we played any worse than our standard performance level of the last few years. All the goals were defendable but we made just as many mistakes in probably every qualifying game, the opposition just wasn't good enough to punish them, except Russia. In fact Russia were the one class team we met in qualifying and they tore us apart both times, home and away - went 3-0 up in LR before sitting back and conceding 2 late ones, and the game in Russia was a miracle draw, they could have scored 6. So the writing was on the wall and there's nothing surprising or unexpected about the last 2 games IMO.

I think the current set of players is probably the worst we have had in last 25-30 years, most of the football they play is basically just unwatchable. They also seem to sit back and defend very deep, inviting the opposition on. In the Charlton era the team defended much higher up the pitch, like what Spain were doing last night (and doing it very well).

[ronk]

Because there are so many more teams, seeding is more of a factor with football. After 10 years out of tournaments it's a bigger step and we had little hope in that group. It'll help us build for the next one.

We went to 3 tournaments in 8 years (1988, 1990, 1994) and then made it again in 2002.

[nelly the elephant]

So Roy Keane wasn't impressed. Well what's he going to do about it? Where's the Roy Keane Footballing academy to train up future Irish internationals? What League of Ireland side is he managing to demonstrate how things should be done? Nothing but bluster from the walk away king.

Amen brother.

[Donny B.]

To be fair the whole 'Keane attacks the fans' press witch-hunt was actually complete bullshit when you analysed what he actually said.

[tate]

Delaney is a f%~king joker http://www.balls.ie/2012/06/16/sober-jo ... land-fans/


How does he still have a job? http://www.balls.ie/2012/06/15/obligato ... hotograph/

[Sauvignon Blank]

The groups are very unbalanced and unfortunately we got a ridiculously hard group. Spain,Croatia and Italy are technically so far ahead of us,nothing new there.
We have been absent from a major tournament for a long time and this does affect how you play/cope in a major tournament.
What galls me and most other fans ive spoken to is the fact Trap remained stubborn in the first half v Croatia when the alarm bells were going off. Our midfield was being shredded and if this happens goals usually follow, far too much pressure on the defence.
Too many senior players simply didn't perform: Given,Dunne,Keane & O'Shea. Can't fault their heart because they gave it their all but nerves,lack of composure was telling.
Trap didn't have a plan B which was evident from the 1st game, he stubbornly refused to shore up the midfield and go to a 3-5-1-1 or 4-5-1. Add the fact we got no favourable bounce,no luck in the first game and their decisive goal was offside. The foul leading to that goal was never going to be given. Hopefully this will act as a catalyst for change and our tactics will evolve.

As for the fans the other night, I thought they were brilliant, real pride and defiance from them despite witnessing the embarrassment/humiliation unfolding in front of their eyes. As someone who attends codes, the atmosphere at football games is far superior, pity we couldn't get that going at a Rugby international.

As for Roy Keane....433 summed it up perfectly.

GTF you irrelevant Cork bitter. You lost all credibility the day you walked out on your country and let down the very same fans you slagged off the other night.

[jezzer]

Sean St. Ledger, Keith Andrews, Damien Duff.

Those are the three starting players who showed some promise that a new team can be built (even if Duffer is an oul fellah, there's a role for him, maybe at full back).

Given had a terrible tournament. Dunne was not focused at all. O'Shea (who I admire a lot as a footballer) looks past it. Ward isn't intnl standard. Whelan should never again be capped for Ireland. His contribution was disgraceful. McGeady was, well, McGeady. Keane is gone. Doyle is massively over-rated, but might have a role in a different formation.

This 4-4-2, two rigid lines dropping back and back and back with every pass from the opposition, is a joke. There isn't any pace or passing ability in the team, so when we do shut down an attack on the edge of our box, the only outlet is a size 10 hoof into the stands or back to their midfield.

There is a better team out there, a better formation and - let's be honest - a better manager. We might or might not qualify for Brazil. But we have to play the game and not stand in the park trying to stop the other guy from playing.

I fear for guys like Coleman, McCarthy, Long and McClean coming in, as long as we play Trappasaurus football.

[Dave Cahill]

Whelan should never again be capped for Ireland. His contribution was disgraceful.

How much of this is the system though? Whilst Stoke wouldn't be reknowned for the tiki-taka, they play a lot more football than people give them credit for, and Whelan is the pivot that it functions through and around.