Pro 12 Semi-final vs Scarlets

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Re: Pro 12 Semi-final vs Scarlets

Postby Gearzbox2 » May 20th, 2017, 1:34 am

just in the door after semi-drinking that performance into some sense of forgettability...

Where to start, 24 turnovers probably a good place, just not acceptable at this level and in a semi final
Sexton had 5, Tracy, Carberry abc Josh 2 each and the list goes on...shocking
Our attacking game that has generally been humming all year just disintegrated and I'm sorry again JS has to take the flak here along with Robbie H and Gary because that's the spine from where it comes from

Selection as well has to fall at Leo's feet, Leo it's time to stop being nice to your former friends, johnny had to go after 50 and Isa wasn't far behind him
Picking Adam Beirne ahead of Ferg was brainless and Noel Reid should've been in for Zane( I don't care if he can play wing aswel, he rarely adds anything when he comes on)
Defence systems have seemed to slip too and our tackling tonight at crucial times was AIL standard, we need a full time D coach

Overall we just seemed like this game was going to be handed to us
And we missed Key men in Heaslip, O'Brien and Cronin who all add valued experience and different areas of play that were needed tonight

Rant over, I'm just gutted as the season overall went so well with some excellent young lads coming thru
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Re: Pro 12 Semi-final vs Scarlets

Postby leinsterforever » May 20th, 2017, 1:55 am

leinster10 wrote:
leinsterforever wrote:
leinster10 wrote:The coaches set a team up who have consistently played brilliant all season long, it it their fault that on this one off game the players decided to drop balls, pass into touch and for a world class player like sexton playing himself off the lions, no I don't think it is, as isa said, it was down to the players


Rugby's a team game. When everyone's making similar mistakes from one match to the next, and issues aren't being fixed from one match to the next, then I look at the coaching.

The alignment in attack and lines run by players were very poor. There were poor, easily-readable passes being thrown. The attacking shape was off. I would put theses things down to the coaching


You must not be reading my posts because I said it was a team sport, there was nothing wrong with our attacking alignment, case in point being ringroses try, execution was perfect, our execution for most of the game was below our regular high standard, players we know are really good players let us down, across the board, with 14 men down Davies only ever had one option but to shout but sexton kept calling moves that played into their hands but more importantly the rest of the back line poorly executed, leo can't walk onto the pitch and force a player catch a ball, i think it's reactionary and impulsive to blame the coaches when a crop of young players feel the heat of pressure at home for the first time, have some patience


Can Carbery, Byrne and Molony really be termed a "crop" of young players? Did the Scarlets not have a sprinkling of newish players in their ranks? There's nearly always going to be a certain number of inexperienced players in a side. That's the nature of the game.

I strongly disagree with your opinion on the attacking alignment. My take on it is that the host of errors is stemming from players running loose, soft lines and imprecise passes being thrown. This is the stuff they practice in training, and it's the coaches' remit to make sure it's fast, accurate and sharp.

We hear that Lancaster puts huge emphasis on unstructured play in training, but maybe this doesn't give the players the clarity they need when they come up against good defences.
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Re: Pro 12 Semi-final vs Scarlets

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » May 20th, 2017, 3:20 am

One of the worst performances from us in a big game that I've ever seen. I can think of other bad days at the office when we were beaten up and needed to improve the squad but everything was there for us to win today and we choked. The Scarlets were brilliant at times but they had no real opposition. We were tactically inept and played with zero intensity.

Still can't get over the number of errors, I would guess that it must be a record in terms of turnovers conceded. My biggest surprise and worry going forward is that we didn't come out with the right tactics in the second half. It was such basic stuff and yet we messed it up and you'd never have guessed the Scarlets were a man down, really appalling. The one time I can think of us looking for the space on the left wing was when it wasn't particularly on and Johnny kicked it out on the full anyway. I thought his presence became toxic in the end. I know they're big boys but he was really laying into JGP and Henshaw in particular and the errors continued to mount for all concerned.

I believe the Clermont game had a huge impact on the squad. I think most of us of here were quite content after that and excited about what was to come, but my understanding is that it had the opposite effect on team. They felt like they blew it and it really got to them.

Reasons to be cheerful...James Ryan, Fardy, Nick McCarthy, James Lowe, and Jordan Larmour.
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Re: Pro 12 Semi-final vs Scarlets

Postby maps » May 20th, 2017, 3:20 am

A definite red by the letter of the law, but we would have been better without it. Ref was determined to give them everything after that. Some of the decisions at the breakdown were beyond belief.
Pro12 is the best league in the world but it consistently embarrasses itself with the standard of refereeing
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Re: Pro 12 Semi-final vs Scarlets

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » May 20th, 2017, 3:22 am

In hindsight we should have taken three points after the red card. Went for the big play and lost the ball but there was no need for it when we had a whole half to play with an extra man, just take the three.
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Re: Pro 12 Semi-final vs Scarlets

Postby Blueberry » May 20th, 2017, 8:28 am

Total and utter shambles, cannot think of a worse performance from Leinster in recent years. Unforced errors off the chart and bar a gift from the Scarlets for Conans try we would have scored nothing against 14 for an entire 40 minutes.

Speechless......and not good enough. Not the refs fault or Lancaster or the red card or anything, we were terrible.

The problem is a simple one, bar Clermont we haven't had an intense game since Wasps and for whatever reason they were shite that day so didn't push us. Half arsed games v a broken Cobnacht, strangely off sorts Ospreys, the terrible Ulster game and a strange game v a disinterested Glasgow left us off the boil and disjointed
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Re: Pro 12 Semi-final vs Scarlets

Postby Blueberry » May 20th, 2017, 8:32 am

And the bloody Lions is a nuisance, all of our Lions not interested yesterday. Sexton already annoyed about Farrell getting his starting spot and Henshaw & Furlong deffo minding themselves.
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Re: Pro 12 Semi-final vs Scarlets

Postby Blueberry » May 20th, 2017, 8:37 am

Serious questions for next year:

Second row a major problem. Will Fardy and James Ryan fix this ?

Hooker when Cronin is not about is a weak spot and we need to sort this.

Isa has been poor recently and we need to be careful here. Sentiment cannot cloud sele action policy.

Carbery at 15 only ?
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Re: Pro 12 Semi-final vs Scarlets

Postby carlow man » May 20th, 2017, 9:01 am

We need to sign a proper second row. Not a stop gap which is what fardy is. A lot of pressure in James ryan to become the enforcer that we need. That is unfair. Nacewa will/shoukd lose his place to lowe who will already be a class above our backs when he turns up.

We have 3 hookers and none of them can throw under pressure. Strauss shoukd have been let go to release money for his replacement.

Jgp should be made to play in the ail after that performance. Amateur hour!!

Ross byrne needs to be second choice to sexton and could even overtake him at this rate. Sexton looks flakey in contact ever since he came back from France. His temperament is all over the place when someone gives him a dig. Acting like a schoolkid last night because the scarlets rattled him. Farrell will start for lions and rightly so as nz would be all over sexton.

Poor end to a very promising season. The clermont game has left a few demons especially to the Senior players who let themselves down last night.

Hope mcgrath and furlong are ok for the lions.
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Re: Pro 12 Semi-final vs Scarlets

Postby curates_egg » May 20th, 2017, 9:08 am

LeRouxIsPHat wrote: The one time I can think of us looking for the space on the left wing was when it wasn't particularly on and Johnny kicked it out on the full anyway. I thought his presence became toxic in the end. I know they're big boys but he was really laying into JGP and Henshaw in particular and the errors continued to mount for all concerned .


This.
He could be forgiven for having a stinker/being injured if he wasn't stinking the place out with his attitude as well.
I know bollocking other people is his thing but it can't have a positive impact if he is worse than those he's bollocking.
He really should have been subbed.
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Re: Pro 12 Semi-final vs Scarlets

Postby carlow man » May 20th, 2017, 9:14 am

Maybe someone needs to get hold of sexton and give him a few home truths. Seems to think he runs the place and his cranky head is becoming poisonous. Other players must be sick of his constant whinging when things fall apart. He shoukd have been off at ht. Couldn't take kicks and couldn't take ball into contact all night. Almost like he was saving himself for lions. No point now as he could be sat watching from the stands if they pick on form.
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Re: Pro 12 Semi-final vs Scarlets

Postby Blueberry » May 20th, 2017, 9:19 am

carlow man wrote:We need to sign a proper second row. Not a stop gap which is what fardy is. A lot of pressure in James ryan to become the enforcer that we need. That is unfair. Nacewa will/shoukd lose his place to lowe who will already be a class above our backs when he turns up.

We have 3 hookers and none of them can throw under pressure. Strauss shoukd have been let go to release money for his replacement.

Jgp should be made to play in the ail after that performance. Amateur hour!!

Ross byrne needs to be second choice to sexton and could even overtake him at this rate. Sexton looks flakey in contact ever since he came back from France. His temperament is all over the place when someone gives him a dig. Acting like a schoolkid last night because the scarlets rattled him. Farrell will start for lions and rightly so as nz would be all over sexton.

Poor end to a very promising season. The clermont game has left a few demons especially to the Senior players who let themselves down last night.

Hope mcgrath and furlong are ok for the lions.


Good post - why is Strauss still here ? Tracey has not really kicked on and without Cronin we struggle there all right.

2nd Row is a mess to be honest - Toner struggling, Triggs a stopgap, Molony a work in progress, Nagle ????, Mick Kearney fallen off the face - we have no quality here and it showed last night. Fardy may deliver but you might be right - is he another stopgap rather than a Hines ? Hmmm

JGP is a disaster - hasn't pushed Luke at all and to be honest is just a waste of money now - Nick McCarthy has looked better the little I've seen of him.

Sexton is world class but last night worried me as he really struggled and was either injured badly in that first half collision or already thinking about Farrell getting ahead of him and in foul humour !! By 10 minutes into the 2nd half I just wanted Ross Byrne on and why did this not happen Leo ? So blinking obvious that J10 was having a total mare.

Was very upbeat after Clermont but really not too sure what to make of this year now to be honest.

Trying to see the wood from the trees the lack of competitive important fixtures in recent weeks (bar Clermont) and a never ending chopping and changing of players and positions has left us as a disjointed mess when we needed coherence the most.

Can't also help but feel Jamie was sorely missed, jeepers was his calm head needed last night..........
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Re: Pro 12 Semi-final vs Scarlets

Postby Gearzbox2 » May 20th, 2017, 9:36 am

I've calmed down a couple of notches after witnessing that capitulation
One common theme on here is Sextons all around attitude just stank last night...he had one strong carry and was holding his leg for 10 minutes after, it's a physical game I'm afraid johnny, man up!!!!
Constantly jawing other players which I know is needed at times but not when you're playing like a drain yourself
I think JGP has got a tough going over, ya he wasn't great but the guy has got no game time in weeks and that problem falls at the feet of management...poor selection policy

It needed calm heads and I can't underestimate Jamie's loss...just having him there to do the right thing at the right time is what we needed...
Cronin at hooker I think we've come to learn over his abscense has been a big loss either starting or off the bench, very under appreciated player
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Re: Pro 12 Semi-final vs Scarlets

Postby Logorrhea » May 20th, 2017, 9:53 am

Loss of form and no games in the last three to four weeks tends to catch up with us. We simply didnt have any form going in against what is probably the form team in the league.

I'd slow down on slating individuals. They all looked frustrated and not one of them looked disinterested. It just didnt click for them. Sometimes it happens.
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Re: Pro 12 Semi-final vs Scarlets

Postby Peg Leg » May 20th, 2017, 10:21 am

Logorrhea wrote:Loss of form and no games in the last three to four weeks tends to catch up with us. We simply didnt have any form going in against what is probably the form team in the league.

I'd slow down on slating individuals. They all looked frustrated and not one of them looked disinterested. It just didnt click for them. Sometimes it happens.

+1
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Re: Pro 12 Semi-final vs Scarlets

Postby Blueberry » May 20th, 2017, 10:29 am

Logorrhea wrote:Loss of form and no games in the last three to four weeks tends to catch up with us. We simply didnt have any form going in against what is probably the form team in the league.

I'd slow down on slating individuals. They all looked frustrated and not one of them looked disinterested. It just didnt click for them. Sometimes it happens.


True and this I think was the major factor at play here - bar Clermont we haven't had a proper ding dong game since Wasps and even that was a strange one where Wasps really had a bad day at the office so not even sure how much we were pushed that day.

Lesson for the coaching team is you need consistent selection at the business end of the season - J10 should have played up in Ulster and Carbery at 15 for example. If someone gets injured it's a pity but wrapping them in cotton wool and you get what happened yesterday. Players I have no doubt were holding back v Ulster, total lack of intensity and this comes from within the management team, coaches should have identified and treated Ulster as a must win game to avoid the form team the Scarlets in the semi - same issue v Castres draw away earlier in the year which cost us a home semi in the Champions Cup quite probably. Winning must always be important, you can't just turn it on and losing always has consequences - the pathetic capitulation v Munster in Thomond this year another example, we threw that game before it even kicked off and that cost us too.

Important to learn from this...............you win at all costs and then deal with injuries and anything else.

And anyone who doubts the importance of Jamie to this team needs their head examined.............
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Re: Pro 12 Semi-final vs Scarlets

Postby carlow man » May 20th, 2017, 11:01 am

Understand your point re heaslip but conan was the pick of the forwards, prob only leinster player who showed up. He gave us some go forward ball, scored one and set up one. Hard to see how heaslip would have bettered that based on yards made but his leadership and decision making was missed hugely. Maybe if sob ever played two games in a row in the future we could count on his leadership too. Wonder if it was the final would he have been included?
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Re: Pro 12 Semi-final vs Scarlets

Postby Blueberry » May 20th, 2017, 11:08 am

Heaslip is a calming influence on this team and constantly in everyone's ear (not in a Sexton fashion) - he tends to come up with big turnovers when it really matters and I have no doubt he'd have stopped some of the larceny at the breakdown last night by the Scarlets. He never loses the ball in contact and yes Conan was one of the better ones last night but having Heaslip at 8 with Conan and say Ruddock on the flanks is fine. Great tackler too. Point is he is the glue in this pack and has been for years.

When under pressure and playing badly he is what you need - anyone remember his performance in a Pro 12 semi (Rabo at the time) v Glasgow when we stuttered our way over the line hauled over by Heaslip and Heaslip alone - MOTM on the night ??

Last night was another night like that I'm afraid.
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Re: Pro 12 Semi-final vs Scarlets

Postby riocard911 » May 20th, 2017, 11:24 am

Agree re Conan. He was the only one of our forwards, who fully turned up and appropriately looked more gutted than everyone else, when the final whistle went. There was a serious lack of Leinster leadership on the pitch. At one stage during a Scarlets penalty kick in the second half all our players were just standing around, when Isa should have had them all in under the sticks reading them the riot act. Reckon he needs to be put out to pasture. Someone needs to liberate Johnny Sexton from that massive chip on his shoulder, 'cos after last night's performance there's no justification for it anymore. One of the younger players like James Ryan or Dooley should stand up to him and tell him to bung his cakehole. Hopefully after he spends the coming weeks in NZ riding pine watching Farrell, he might cop on to himself. p.s. I know we give out about Munster fans' moaning, but if one considers that Cian Healy, who can't even hold down a first 15 spot with Leinster, has a national contract, while Donncha Ryan, this season's best Irish second row, is being told he's superfluous and can toddle off to France, maybe they have some justification..... Good luck to them anyhows today vs the Ospreys. Hopefully one green field will make the final.
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Re: Pro 12 Semi-final vs Scarlets

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » May 20th, 2017, 11:45 am

I mentioned the lack of urgency already but I still can't believe it. We were so slow to take penalties etc, it was almost like we needed the rest more than them when we should have been trying to run them ragged because of the one man advantage.

I'll be worried when we get to knockout games again. Yeah we beat Wasps but I can't help but think that there's a group of players there who'll be bricking it about a repeat of this a la Clermont. They're quality players and that might be an overreaction but presumably there won't be as many experienced winners next season and the group of guys who haven't won anything will continue to grow and have this massive loss hanging over them.
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