A whiff of Cordite

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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby paddyor » February 18th, 2018, 8:36 pm

simonokeeffe wrote:Balls.ie guessing what ROC did; theres not enough pinches of salt in the world

This?
https://www.balls.ie/rugby/irish-rugby-and-the-media-383259
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby TheBear » February 18th, 2018, 10:29 pm

paddyor wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:Balls.ie guessing what ROC did; theres not enough pinches of salt in the world

This?
https://www.balls.ie/rugby/irish-rugby-and-the-media-383259

There was also a dig at the start of this article about James Lowe, which was a bit childish.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby blockhead » February 18th, 2018, 10:42 pm

TheBear wrote:
paddyor wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:Balls.ie guessing what ROC did; theres not enough pinches of salt in the world

This?
https://www.balls.ie/rugby/irish-rugby-and-the-media-383259

There was also a dig at the start of this article about James Lowe, which was a bit childish.


That's a funny article. James Lowe is a hoot. :lol:
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby Oldschool » February 18th, 2018, 10:52 pm

curates_egg wrote:Whatever about the deficiencies of rugby correspondents (and broadcast journalists) in the country, balls.ie is a whole nother level of cordite.

My major criticism of the D4 meeja over the years has been the fact that it is way too much part of the establishment. It has done a major disservice to the national side, particularly during the Kidney regime. Dexy's, beyond his penchant for flowery fahrden language, has never, ever rocked an establishment boat in his time. This thread is named after him and his lyrical waxings, but I consider his and other's PR work for the IRFU and the Munster Branch a far more grievous sin against journalism.

So, while I don't think ROC is suddenly a Bob Woodward of Irish rugby, I am very happy we finally have correspondents not afraid to ask difficult questions, also in public fora. In a democracy, a free media should serve as a gadfly to the establishment, and not act as its PR arm.

In the horror, drawn-out Kidney endgame, it was only blogs like WOC and Hugo's that were saying it as it is. Jeff also joined the party before the meeja finally buckled.
These days, the IRFU like to keep the well-read blogs sweet, so they won't rock the boat either. In that kind of an environment, we need journalists asking difficult questions.

It's not just rugby that the media are too much part of the establishment - fake media never mind fake news.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby simonokeeffe » February 18th, 2018, 10:57 pm

Theres also the problem of journalists, certain ones especially, acting as mouthpieces for agents

this bit from the article is interesting

"After the exclusion of the journalist in 2017, the Rugby Writers of Ireland voted at their AGM that a 'one out, all out' policy would be adhered to if any journalist was excluded from a press conference in the future.
That agreement failed an early test in Paris earlier this month, after Ireland's dramatic Six Nations win over France."
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby Ruckedtobits » February 19th, 2018, 9:52 am

simonokeeffe wrote:Theres also the problem of journalists, certain ones especially, acting as mouthpieces for agents

this bit from the article is interesting

"After the exclusion of the journalist in 2017, the Rugby Writers of Ireland voted at their AGM that a 'one out, all out' policy would be adhered to if any journalist was excluded from a press conference in the future.
That agreement failed an early test in Paris earlier this month, after Ireland's dramatic Six Nations win over France."


IMO, some rugby journalists have brought this grief upon themsel. Facts, interpreted with insight and experience, are the business of sports journalism. Opinion pieces are for the heads who fill the middle of the paper. Let the Sports Editors write the pieces on the politics inside rugby. Let the journos write about the facts.

Having said that, the particular piece written about Irish Coaches wanting more protection from Owens is almost a "tactical" leak which JS will have been furious about.

Not too much sympathy with journos on this one.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » February 19th, 2018, 12:45 pm

I searched for Luke McGrath on twitter the other day to see if there was any update on his injury, and the first two tweets that popped up were really OTT ones from Cummiskey and ROC saying that if he's out of the Saracens game then we'll also be missing one of Fardy or Lowe. Now I'm not blind to the fact that a knee injury could be bad news, but I thought it was sensationalist and clickbaity in the circumstances.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby simonokeeffe » February 19th, 2018, 1:24 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I searched for Luke McGrath on twitter the other day to see if there was any update on his injury, and the first two tweets that popped up were really OTT ones from Cummiskey and ROC saying that if he's out of the Saracens game then we'll also be missing one of Fardy or Lowe. Now I'm not blind to the fact that a knee injury could be bad news, but I thought it was sensationalist and clickbaity in the circumstances.


Definitely.
They could have said out for x weeks or out of 6n or missing big second leg of Scarlets but they went for the foreign/project player dig
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby Laighin Break » February 20th, 2018, 12:50 pm

Really insightful stuff on OTB last night from EOS and ROC (using a lot of TLAs here).
When asked who would win;
ROC said he didn't know and that it was too close to call
EOS said if the game is played at the tempo Ireland want, Ireland would win but if it's played at the tempo Wales want, Wales would win.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby simonokeeffe » February 20th, 2018, 1:38 pm

Laighin Break wrote:Really insightful stuff on OTB last night from EOS and ROC (using a lot of TLAs here).
When asked who would win;
ROC said he didn't know and that it was too close to call
EOS said if the game is played at the tempo Ireland want, Ireland would win but if it's played at the tempo Wales want, Wales would win.


EOS is a terrible pundit. He either says nothing or just panders
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby johng » February 20th, 2018, 2:26 pm

In fairness it's a tough game to call
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby simonokeeffe » February 20th, 2018, 2:56 pm

johng wrote:In fairness it's a tough game to call


:lol:
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby Dave Cahill » February 20th, 2018, 3:06 pm

Laighin Break wrote:Really insightful stuff on OTB last night from EOS and ROC (using a lot of TLAs here).
When asked who would win;
ROC said he didn't know and that it was too close to call
EOS said if the game is played at the tempo Ireland want, Ireland would win but if it's played at the tempo Wales want, Wales would win.


I don't see what's wrong with that - should they just make stuff up? It is a game that's really hard to call. The two teams are very evenly matched and it'll come down to who gets to do more of what they want to do/who is more able to stop the other from doing what they want to do. Anybody who says they can call this game based upon anything other than an internal organ from the neck down is lying.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » February 20th, 2018, 3:19 pm

I was thinking the same thing. I also really like EOS as a pundit. I don't think he has an agenda or is trying to say anything controversial. His idea about Carbery moving to get more time at ten was perfectly valid, and so is the idea that Lowe wasn't necessarily needed/a smart signing.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby fourthirtythree » February 20th, 2018, 3:33 pm

Agree on Lowe, disagree on Carberry. Ireland is the real reason he hasn't got game time at for leinster, and at 10 at that. If he were moved to Munster he would be another flaky player at 10 for them. They have lots. To Ulster and he would be not the kind of senior figure he needs to be. I wouldn't move him to Connacht at the moment either, and why should he?

Now if Ireland were to release him to Leinster to play he could get a game next week.

Calling bullshit on Eddie on that.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby Laighin Break » February 20th, 2018, 3:34 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
Laighin Break wrote:Really insightful stuff on OTB last night from EOS and ROC (using a lot of TLAs here).
When asked who would win;
ROC said he didn't know and that it was too close to call
EOS said if the game is played at the tempo Ireland want, Ireland would win but if it's played at the tempo Wales want, Wales would win.


I don't see what's wrong with that - should they just make stuff up? It is a game that's really hard to call. The two teams are very evenly matched and it'll come down to who gets to do more of what they want to do/who is more able to stop the other from doing what they want to do. Anybody who says they can call this game based upon anything other than an internal organ from the neck down is lying.


I would think it's somewhat part of their jobs to not sit on the fence and pick who they think will win. They are supposedly 'experts'.
Don't see the bookies just saying "I don't know".

I'm also wondering if EOS will try to spin it next week that he said X would win, and put it down to the tempo.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » February 20th, 2018, 3:40 pm

fourthirtythree wrote:Agree on Lowe, disagree on Carberry. Ireland is the real reason he hasn't got game time at for leinster, and at 10 at that. If he were moved to Munster he would be another flaky player at 10 for them. They have lots. To Ulster and he would be not the kind of senior figure he needs to be. I wouldn't move him to Connacht at the moment either, and why should he?

Now if Ireland were to release him to Leinster to play he could get a game next week.

Calling bullshit on Eddie on that.


I think he only suggested Ulster, and once the 6N finishes Carbery could play every remaining league game for Ulster at ten, so he definitely has a point. I'm in no way suggesting Carbery should leave, I'm simply saying he makes a valid point that he would get more time at ten elsewhere so there shouldn't be an issue with raising it. I think Hook spoke nonsense to make headlines, don't think Eddie does at all.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby Dave Cahill » February 20th, 2018, 4:11 pm

Laighin Break wrote:
I would think it's somewhat part of their jobs to not sit on the fence and pick who they think will win. They are supposedly 'experts'.
Don't see the bookies just saying "I don't know".

I'm also wondering if EOS will try to spin it next week that he said X would win, and put it down to the tempo.


Bookies don't need to be experts on sport, just on the level of ignorance of a sufficient number of their customers to be profitable.

If a match is too tight to call, then whats wrong with saying that? If their opinion, based on their level of knowledge of the sport, is that the game could go either way, shouldn't they say that? Thats not sitting on the fence, thats their honest assessment. It mightn't suit our need for completion, but thats how it goes sometimes. And particularly in this case, where the game is extremely tight, where the smallest of perhaps unseen factors could change the outcome.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby riocard911 » February 20th, 2018, 5:02 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
Laighin Break wrote:
I would think it's somewhat part of their jobs to not sit on the fence and pick who they think will win. They are supposedly 'experts'.
Don't see the bookies just saying "I don't know".

I'm also wondering if EOS will try to spin it next week that he said X would win, and put it down to the tempo.


Bookies don't need to be experts on sport, just on the level of ignorance of a sufficient number of their customers to be profitable.

If a match is too tight to call, then whats wrong with saying that? If their opinion, based on their level of knowledge of the sport, is that the game could go either way, shouldn't they say that? Thats not sitting on the fence, thats their honest assessment. It mightn't suit our need for completion, but thats how it goes sometimes. And particularly in this case, where the game is extremely tight, where the smallest of perhaps unseen factors could change the outcome.



Exactly. Such as the incorrect decision to card Stephen Ferris for a drop-tackle, which gave Wales victory in 2011, mar shampla....
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby suisse » February 21st, 2018, 4:56 am

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I was thinking the same thing. I also really like EOS as a pundit. I don't think he has an agenda or is trying to say anything controversial. His idea about Carbery moving to get more time at ten was perfectly valid, and so is the idea that Lowe wasn't necessarily needed/a smart signing.


I like EOS too, but what that essentially boils down to is Leinster should not be allowed to have NIE or NIQ players. They are already burdened too much with delivering players for the national team. The argument should be turned around to why the other 3 provinces are not producing enough players, so if Leinster have a foreign guy in the back-line, then the slack has to be taken up elsewhere. Since the 2011 RWC, 3 Munster developed players have become fixtures in the Ireland squad. One of those, Simon Zebo, is now out of the running. The other 3 provinces should be doing a whole lot more. Maybe they should have their foreign player quota reduced until they start delivering more players to Ireland?
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