Leinster's Halfback Options going forward
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- Jackie Brown
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward
A memorial to members of the IRFU killed in the two world wars is hardly sectarian.
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- outcast eddie
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward
Ah lads, let’s not get into all this shite.
The odds are good but the goods are odd.
- fourthirtythree
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward
I get that Nuchmidt would want Joey playing week in and out at outhalf as he is the anointed one (except that of course it is his versatility that makes him attractive to Schmidt as 22, just as with Madigan before him, and when Sexton was out he was more likely to go for a different kind of outhalf to start matches - like Keatley for example). I know that Ulster are in a pickle and it looks like Leinster have a huge logjam at 10 with some young talent coming behind and therefore it's a no-brainer to some...
BUT
I have never agreed with this view. Ulster don't need Carbery or Byrne, one of whom will definitely be out with Ireland squads and the other possibly. They don't need young outhalfs looking for experience. They have that. They need experience. And they need someone who will be available to play week in week out and there to mentor their youth. Plus: they may not have big games next season. Plus: who knows whether the environment there will be good for either next season (coaching etc.)
In Munster's case they have three outhalfs vying for the spot. They don't need anyone to develop either, they have NO patience for that down there with outhalfs any more, they want the finished product (who they will then blame when their lineout malfunctions catastrophically because others can't be blamed!), they also have their own youth who need games to develop before being gradually brought into the big games. Frankly I can see Keatley seeing off, say, Carbery for a European match. Wouuldn't be the first time Munster managements will have made that kind of choice. As people are talking up Madigan right now don't forget that Schmidt chose Keatley to start ahead of him.
The IRFU does not want them to leave for another country, booting them up the road to where they are unlikely to be in the running for medals would be a quick way of making that happen. They will get plenty of time. Unless he gets injured for Ireland again for most of this year Carbery will be played at 10 in Pro14 games whenever Schmidt gets the call (which is... sometimes) and Byrne will get time too. Frawley might have a year or two of limited chances but I hope that Ross Byrne can really put himself in contention for Ireland next year which would up his chances.
Or Bleyendaaal could get better and Munster would be out of the equation.
But neither province looks to me to be set up to develop these players right now. I don't think the players want it. They might not be the provinces first options either.
The whole thing never sat right with me. The story is pretty suspect too (as pointed out above, if they want a particular player to move why would they ask Leo to choose? How can Leo choose which player gets to decide he wants to go to Norn?) and I've been calling bullshit on the narrative around this since it kicked off. Yes. Eddie O'Sullivan was trolling. They need to go North. Or South. Anywhere but Leinster. For... reasons.
BUT
I have never agreed with this view. Ulster don't need Carbery or Byrne, one of whom will definitely be out with Ireland squads and the other possibly. They don't need young outhalfs looking for experience. They have that. They need experience. And they need someone who will be available to play week in week out and there to mentor their youth. Plus: they may not have big games next season. Plus: who knows whether the environment there will be good for either next season (coaching etc.)
In Munster's case they have three outhalfs vying for the spot. They don't need anyone to develop either, they have NO patience for that down there with outhalfs any more, they want the finished product (who they will then blame when their lineout malfunctions catastrophically because others can't be blamed!), they also have their own youth who need games to develop before being gradually brought into the big games. Frankly I can see Keatley seeing off, say, Carbery for a European match. Wouuldn't be the first time Munster managements will have made that kind of choice. As people are talking up Madigan right now don't forget that Schmidt chose Keatley to start ahead of him.
The IRFU does not want them to leave for another country, booting them up the road to where they are unlikely to be in the running for medals would be a quick way of making that happen. They will get plenty of time. Unless he gets injured for Ireland again for most of this year Carbery will be played at 10 in Pro14 games whenever Schmidt gets the call (which is... sometimes) and Byrne will get time too. Frawley might have a year or two of limited chances but I hope that Ross Byrne can really put himself in contention for Ireland next year which would up his chances.
Or Bleyendaaal could get better and Munster would be out of the equation.
But neither province looks to me to be set up to develop these players right now. I don't think the players want it. They might not be the provinces first options either.
The whole thing never sat right with me. The story is pretty suspect too (as pointed out above, if they want a particular player to move why would they ask Leo to choose? How can Leo choose which player gets to decide he wants to go to Norn?) and I've been calling bullshit on the narrative around this since it kicked off. Yes. Eddie O'Sullivan was trolling. They need to go North. Or South. Anywhere but Leinster. For... reasons.
Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward
True. But to many people, neither is commemorating people who died trying to liberate their country which had long been occupied, with some awful results.Jackie Brown wrote:A memorial to members of the IRFU killed in the two world wars is hardly sectarian.
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"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward
Neither is Ian Madigan or his boots!Jackie Brown wrote:A memorial to members of the IRFU killed in the two world wars is hardly sectarian.
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- fourthirtythree
- Leo Cullen
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward
Ideology is what you think when you think you are not thinking.
Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward
fourthirtythree wrote:I get that Nuchmidt would want Joey playing week in and out at outhalf as he is the anointed one (except that of course it is his versatility that makes him attractive to Schmidt as 22, just as with Madigan before him, and when Sexton was out he was more likely to go for a different kind of outhalf to start matches - like Keatley for example). I know that Ulster are in a pickle and it looks like Leinster have a huge logjam at 10 with some young talent coming behind and therefore it's a no-brainer to some...
BUT
I have never agreed with this view. Ulster don't need Carbery or Byrne, one of whom will definitely be out with Ireland squads and the other possibly. They don't need young outhalfs looking for experience. They have that. They need experience. And they need someone who will be available to play week in week out and there to mentor their youth. Plus: they may not have big games next season. Plus: who knows whether the environment there will be good for either next season (coaching etc.)
In Munster's case they have three outhalfs vying for the spot. They don't need anyone to develop either, they have NO patience for that down there with outhalfs any more, they want the finished product (who they will then blame when their lineout malfunctions catastrophically because others can't be blamed!), they also have their own youth who need games to develop before being gradually brought into the big games. Frankly I can see Keatley seeing off, say, Carbery for a European match. Wouuldn't be the first time Munster managements will have made that kind of choice. As people are talking up Madigan right now don't forget that Schmidt chose Keatley to start ahead of him.
The IRFU does not want them to leave for another country, booting them up the road to where they are unlikely to be in the running for medals would be a quick way of making that happen. They will get plenty of time. Unless he gets injured for Ireland again for most of this year Carbery will be played at 10 in Pro14 games whenever Schmidt gets the call (which is... sometimes) and Byrne will get time too. Frawley might have a year or two of limited chances but I hope that Ross Byrne can really put himself in contention for Ireland next year which would up his chances.
Or Bleyendaaal could get better and Munster would be out of the equation.
But neither province looks to me to be set up to develop these players right now. I don't think the players want it. They might not be the provinces first options either.
The whole thing never sat right with me. The story is pretty suspect too (as pointed out above, if they want a particular player to move why would they ask Leo to choose? How can Leo choose which player gets to decide he wants to go to Norn?) and I've been calling bullshit on the narrative around this since it kicked off. Yes. Eddie O'Sullivan was trolling. They need to go North. Or South. Anywhere but Leinster. For... reasons.
You have it right 433 Sexton and Carbery will be off on Ireland duty which will give Byrne plenty of game time. Playing JS and JC nearly turn about would give JC the game time he needs and save JS a few miles on the clock squeezing out a season or two extra. While getting the best form of mentoring now. If you send off these young lads and either they dont save Ulster and Munster they will be castigated particularly by sections of the media and public that cannot help but be anti Leinster. The idea that a young out half from Leinster is going to want to play in Ulster leaving the chance of playing for one of the best teams in Europe to play for a poor team at the moment with no coaching ticket is just not going to wash with anybody. If the kid is anything less then great every week he will get dogs abuse. No coaches, poor team, mad pressure is hardly the environment for a young player to become better. As for sending a young back to Munster to develop forget it they only know how to play with an outhalf that kicks 10 man rugby. They have three outhalfs there and all of them have gone backwards over their time at Munster.
Munster have a good outhalf in Hanrahan except they have played him all over the park and no player becomes a good outhalf playing fullback. Madigan suffered from his versatility. Playing six games all over the place , starting one at outhalf played so so and then gets mega abuse because he was not great and didnt take his chance.
slit my wrists and its blue blood.
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- Leo Cullen
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward
I think Nick McCarthy's recent performances underlines the need for young 9's to play as much rugby as possible, the fact that nick hasn't played AIL in two seasons is a problem.. especially when his biggest work-on appears to be his decision making.
Given limited number of scrumhalves in the academy, I can see why he hasn't been playing AIL but IMO it has hampered his development.
having more scrumhalves in academy setup would allow young 9's more gametime at AIL as the fear of injury causing a lack of depth would be lessened.. any other ideas on how leinster rugby could improve their scrumhalf development at pre-senior level?
Given limited number of scrumhalves in the academy, I can see why he hasn't been playing AIL but IMO it has hampered his development.
having more scrumhalves in academy setup would allow young 9's more gametime at AIL as the fear of injury causing a lack of depth would be lessened.. any other ideas on how leinster rugby could improve their scrumhalf development at pre-senior level?
- TrapperChamonix
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward
O'Sullivan is in academy now and I'd be surprised if Patterson doesn't join him next year
Never argue with an idiot. Someone looking on may not be able tell the difference
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- Leo Cullen
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward
I dunno about Patterson.. i'd rate both James Kenny and Cormac Foley ahead of him.TrapperChamonix wrote:O'Sullivan is in academy now and I'd be surprised if Patterson doesn't join him next year
But even still two academy scrumhalves is the bare minimum to have IMO.
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- Leo Cullen
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward
Joey Carbery is believed to be strongly considering a short-term deal to move to Ulster just for next season.
The Leinster playmaker is contemplating leaving his home province on order to secure his position as one of the Ireland out-halves for the 2019 Rugby World Cup.
Coach Joe Schmidt has made his opinion known that Carbery needs significant game time at out-half next season.
However, Schmidt does not have the power to insist coaches Leo Cullen and Stuart Lancaster hand him the number 10 shirt at Leinster.
It is understood Schmidt and Carbery met for a discussion in a Dublin 6 café on Sunday.
Leinster are concerned at the price they have to pay for bringing through Ireland international and whether it could hinder their ability to compete on two fronts next season, especially in the Champions Cup.
The Leinster playmaker is contemplating leaving his home province on order to secure his position as one of the Ireland out-halves for the 2019 Rugby World Cup.
Coach Joe Schmidt has made his opinion known that Carbery needs significant game time at out-half next season.
However, Schmidt does not have the power to insist coaches Leo Cullen and Stuart Lancaster hand him the number 10 shirt at Leinster.
It is understood Schmidt and Carbery met for a discussion in a Dublin 6 café on Sunday.
Leinster are concerned at the price they have to pay for bringing through Ireland international and whether it could hinder their ability to compete on two fronts next season, especially in the Champions Cup.
- curates_egg
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward
It's understood? The pic was all over the interweb for the past two days.mildlyinterested wrote:It is understood Schmidt and Carbery met for a discussion in a Dublin 6 café on Sunday.
Whatever about the rights and wrongs of this move (which I think makes no sense for any party except, maybe, Schmidt), it is a f%~king disgrace that he is pulling this sh!t in the run up to the most important game since he left Leinster. f%~king c**t.
*Am interested to see what the programme makes of my profanities*
Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward
Comments by BOD that Plumbers Leinster is probably better that Joe's Leinster may have irked him.
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!
Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward
The body language is interesting.curates_egg wrote:It's understood? The pic was all over the interweb for the past two days.mildlyinterested wrote:It is understood Schmidt and Carbery met for a discussion in a Dublin 6 café on Sunday.
Whatever about the rights and wrongs of this move (which I think makes no sense for any party except, maybe, Schmidt), it is a f%~king disgrace that he is pulling this sh!t in the run up to the most important game since he left Leinster. f%~king c**t.
*Am interested to see what the programme makes of my profanities*
Joey very thoughtful looking.
Joe there it is but asking rather than telling,
It'll be good for your career Joe(y).
Who's the third person at the table - Drico?
The curse of social media strikes again.
Now why would the lads meet in public.
Usually it's diversionary.
This one photo is worth a whole thread on it's own.
Could be the most far reaching threesome ever, in the history of Leinster and Irish rugby.
Last edited by Oldschool on May 3rd, 2018, 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward
Indo have changed the wording to 'Carbery read to move to Ulster' on short-term deal (presumably one season) before the RWC. No doubt Ulster fans will complain their province is being used to develop an out-half for Ireland's world cup, rather than being grateful to receive IRFU interference to get one of Leinster's best young players!
"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward
Buys them time to develop their own.neiliog93 wrote:Indo have changed the wording to 'Carbery read to move to Ulster' on short-term deal (presumably one season) before the RWC. No doubt Ulster fans will complain their province is being used to develop an out-half for Ireland's world cup, rather than being grateful to receive IRFU interference to get one of Leinster's best young players!
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward
anyone know the blonde woman with her back to Joey ? hope she was taking notesOldschool wrote:The body language is interesting.curates_egg wrote:It's understood? The pic was all over the interweb for the past two days.mildlyinterested wrote:It is understood Schmidt and Carbery met for a discussion in a Dublin 6 café on Sunday.
Whatever about the rights and wrongs of this move (which I think makes no sense for any party except, maybe, Schmidt), it is a f%~king disgrace that he is pulling this sh!t in the run up to the most important game since he left Leinster. f%~king c**t.
*Am interested to see what the programme makes of my profanities*
Joey very thoughtful looking.
Joe there it is but asking rather than telling,
It'll be good for your career Joe(y).
Who's the third person at the table - Drico?
The curse of social media strikes again.
Now why would the lads meet in public.
Usually it's diversionary.
This one photo is worth a whole thread on it's own.
Could be the most far reaching threesome ever, in the history of Leinster and Irish rugby.
Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward
Could be Richie Gray?Barry wrote:
anyone know the blonde woman with her back to Joey ? hope she was taking notes
Or Xhanthipe
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!
- Blue not red blood
- Mullet
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward
Joey is holding on to his nuts in case Joe gets nasty
The smiling assasian
A one year loan could be a good compromise as all parties would benefit
The smiling assasian
A one year loan could be a good compromise as all parties would benefit
- Laighin Break
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward
Think I read elsewhere that it was EasterbyOldschool wrote:The body language is interesting.curates_egg wrote:It's understood? The pic was all over the interweb for the past two days.mildlyinterested wrote:It is understood Schmidt and Carbery met for a discussion in a Dublin 6 café on Sunday.
Whatever about the rights and wrongs of this move (which I think makes no sense for any party except, maybe, Schmidt), it is a f%~king disgrace that he is pulling this sh!t in the run up to the most important game since he left Leinster. f%~king c**t.
*Am interested to see what the programme makes of my profanities*
Joey very thoughtful looking.
Joe there it is but asking rather than telling,
It'll be good for your career Joe(y).
Who's the third person at the table - Drico?
The curse of social media strikes again.
Now why would the lads meet in public.
Usually it's diversionary.
This one photo is worth a whole thread on it's own.
Could be the most far reaching threesome ever, in the history of Leinster and Irish rugby.