The pitch

[Duff Paddy]

Schools cup rugby is just as important as the provincial team - it's not going to change anytime soon. Leinster need to move to the RDS on a permanent basis. You do have a point about the amount spent on the new pitch though. Doesn't look like great value for money.

No its not. Provincial rugby has commercial potential and earnings and is marketable. Provincial rugby's players feed directly into the Ireland team, which is the big earner.

Schools rugby is of course important, but its impact wouldn't be any less if they were playing around the corner in Belvo in front of some temporary stands.

The year before last Drico didn't play at home in the Brook, and one of the reasons was that the pitch was dangerous.

Totally disagree Flash. Many of the schools cup games get bigger crowds than your average celtic league game so it's simply not realistic to say that they could be held elsewhere - none of the AIL clubs have the capacity to hold them and the smaller schools cup games are already farmed out to Lakelands etc.

And as for the argument that the provinces supply players for the national team, well the schhools cup has given us every player worth talking about for Leinster and for Ireland.

[Uncle Mort]

...well the schhools cup has given us every player worth talking about for Leinster and for Ireland.

One day the powers that be will realise that this is what holds back the development of rugby in Leinster more than what develops it. Just because something has always been done one way doesn't mean that it has to stay done that way. There is such a thing as progress.

[Duff Paddy]

...well the schhools cup has given us every player worth talking about for Leinster and for Ireland.

One day the powers that be will realise that this is what holds back the development of rugby in Leinster more than what develops it. Just because something has always been done one way doesn't mean that it has to stay done that way. There is such a thing as progress.

Not true. So few people play rugby in this country. If the schools system was acting the way it does (like an elite rugby academy system), then we'd be well and truly off the world rugby map. We're just barely hanging in there as it is.

[Uncle Mort]

So few people play rugby in this country.

Which is why the player base needs to be extended beyond the schools, which can only be done by lessening the importance of the schools cups.

[jezzer]

So few people play rugby in this country.

Which is why the player base needs to be extended beyond the schools, which can only be done by lessening the importance of the schools cups.

Not if you get more schools playing rugby.

[Duff Paddy]

So few people play rugby in this country.

Which is why the player base needs to be extended beyond the schools, which can only be done by lessening the importance of the schools cups.

Not if you get more schools playing rugby.

Exactly.

[thecoolfreak]

The Schools Cups have been running for over 100 years and there is no way their importance should be lessened

[limecat]

The Schools Cups have been running for over 100 years and there is no way their importance should be lessened

of course not, but their appeal, and thus the appeal of the game in general, should be expanded

[Uncle Mort]

The Schools Cups have been running for over 100 years and there is no way their importance should be lessened

of course not, but their appeal, and thus the appeal of the game in general, should be expanded

but once more schools are playing and more people are playing because the appeal has been spread the schools cup won't be able to be run as it is or else it will be seen as elitist. The most important thing though is to get more people playing - and I don't feel that the current over exposure of a few schools is the best way to do it - even if has been done for over 100 years.

[thecoolfreak]

The most important thing though is to get more people playing

Completely agree. The more players the better

[the spoofer]

But why do so few kids play past schools. I would argue that its overexposure and burn out.

The thought that so much effort goes into training for what is often effectively one game is ridiculous.

A league schould always take precedence over a cup and I think schools rugby should be structured in a manner similar to the heineken cup.

you might have the same result but over time there may be a general raising of standards.

[Leinsterman]

But why do so few kids play past schools. I would argue that its overexposure and burn out.

Here's a counter-arguement:

1. Booze
2. Girls
3. Lack of meaningful competitions between SCT and U20 levels

[thecoolfreak]

1. Booze

I think that's about the only reason

[Flash Gordon]

Schools cup rugby is just as important as the provincial team - it's not going to change anytime soon. Leinster need to move to the RDS on a permanent basis. You do have a point about the amount spent on the new pitch though. Doesn't look like great value for money.

No its not. Provincial rugby has commercial potential and earnings and is marketable. Provincial rugby's players feed directly into the Ireland team, which is the big earner.

Schools rugby is of course important, but its impact wouldn't be any less if they were playing around the corner in Belvo in front of some temporary stands.

The year before last Drico didn't play at home in the Brook, and one of the reasons was that the pitch was dangerous.

Totally disagree Flash. Many of the schools cup games get bigger crowds than your average celtic league game so it's simply not realistic to say that they could be held elsewhere - none of the AIL clubs have the capacity to hold them and the smaller schools cup games are already farmed out to Lakelands etc.

And as for the argument that the provinces supply players for the national team, well the schhools cup has given us every player worth talking about for Leinster and for Ireland.

Yeah, but the crowd pay 3Euro in as opposed to 15! You'd have to get 20000 at every schools game to have the same impact. Plus:
1. TV rights
2. 600-700K income for sponsorship/signage
3. over 2million in shirts alone, never mind the rest of the merchandise
4. 4million grant from the IRFU for supply the players
5. Prize money
6. Gate receipts - one bumper quarter or semi-final crowd and you get 2million.

The commercial possibilities for schools rugby are totally miniscule compared to the earning power of the provinces. We paid half a million for that pitch - I reckon you'd need 30 schools games revenue (BEFORE tax) to break even on that investment. Nerver mind the other costs associated with it.

I'd play the games in club grounds and put up temp seating.

As for the schools as a feeder. Well, yes they do that, but we're the most unsuccessful of the original 5 nations in championship wins and only ever won one grand slam. So the system's results aren't a resounding success. As Limecat says, we need to build on the schools and expand to make the feeders in more diverse and higher in quantity.

[Duff Paddy]

Yeah, but the crowd pay 3Euro in as opposed to 15! You'd have to get 20000 at every schools game to have the same impact. Plus:
1. TV rights
2. 600-700K income for sponsorship/signage
3. over 2million in shirts alone, never mind the rest of the merchandise
4. 4million grant from the IRFU for supply the players
5. Prize money
6. Gate receipts - one bumper quarter or semi-final crowd and you get 2million.

The commercial possibilities for schools rugby are totally miniscule compared to the earning power of the provinces. We paid half a million for that pitch - I reckon you'd need 30 schools games revenue (BEFORE tax) to break even on that investment. Nerver mind the other costs associated with it.

Ah but Flash - the schools cup product is essentially free - i.e. We don't have to pay the players, coaches, backup staff, gym fees, away travel expenses etc. etc.. Add to the fact that the senior cup has a decent sponsor, which the CL doesn't currently have, and the fact that Setanta also televise the schools cup games in Donnybrook - then your argument isn't as watertight as you would have us believe.

[ktf.]

the schools cup is now a an earner for the branch as before the brooke even but now with the setanta deal (i dont know how much) they are actually making money on it. As due to the nature of the schools they dont need to give them any funding.

[thecoolfreak]

And the schools cups are only getting bigger and so their earning poteintial will continue to expand

[ktf.]

But on the pitch i think the installers of it need to be grilled as they insured us last year that it would hold all games but well it clearly has it.

Is it time for us to break the mold and go for a "field turf"tm surface that is durable and you get the same pitch week in week out

http://www.fieldturf.com/rugby/installations.cfm

[jezzer]

Agree on the field turf suggestion. Supposed to e a brilliant surface.

On the schools vs. clubs thing, the school is too important a sporting environment not to want to have more schools coaching rugby and feeding into an enlarged schools cup format.

It's a real achilles heel of the schools format that so many drop out at 18. There's no logical progression point other than for those few schools that have an associated club. For someone of 18-19, it's a big deal to switch from a schools format into a local club. Don't underestimate the importance of familiarity. A lad from Greystones or Clontarf who has been going to a Dublin school is going to wonder whether he's bothered rocking up to his local club and trying to fit in with a new set-up, teammates when he could be out getting wasted and laid after college (not speaking from any direct experience obviously!!!!)

The fact that such a hurdle exists is not a reason for ditching the schools format - just needs some creative thinking in terms of feeder systems.

[Uncle Mort]

As for the schools as a feeder. Well, yes they do that, but we're the most unsuccessful of the original 5 nations in championship wins and only ever won one grand slam. So the system's results aren't a resounding success.

What actually needs to happen is that you need to get the people of school age CHOOSING to play rugby at local clubs and the like - then they will not be put under too much pressure to play, then they will continue to play as it's their choice to play.

What Flash says about being the most unsuccessful country in the 5/6 nations is what makes the status quo so untennable.