obsession with bonus points. What's the, erm, point?

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obsession with bonus points. What's the, erm, point?

Postby MylesNaGapoleen » November 1st, 2009, 12:37 pm

I'm baffled with the obsession with bonus points this season....Aren't they essentially meaningless in deciding the magners this season?

In other words, isn't the winner of this seasons magners league decided by a semi-final and final between the top four teams?

Leinster will cruise into the top 4 at the rate they're going, so, I'm not sure why there is an obsession about bonus points. last night I thought leinster lost the plot a little trying to push the game too much with moves and passes that weren't really on.
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Re: obsession with bonus points. What's the, erm, point?

Postby Felipe-fan09 » November 1st, 2009, 12:47 pm

You never know how the rest of the seasons gonna go and we'd like to get a home semi final and final
In fairness no-one would have predicted our minor implosion in Castre last year, I know it wasn't in the Magners but it goes to show that you can't expect anything in a season
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Re: obsession with bonus points. What's the, erm, point?

Postby Sauvignon Blank » November 1st, 2009, 2:32 pm

MylesNaGapoleen wrote:I'm baffled with the obsession with bonus points this season....Aren't they essentially meaningless in deciding the magners this season?

In other words, isn't the winner of this seasons magners league decided by a semi-final and final between the top four teams?

Leinster will cruise into the top 4 at the rate they're going, so, I'm not sure why there is an obsession about bonus points. last night I thought leinster lost the plot a little trying to push the game too much with moves and passes that weren't really on.


The players obviously felt it was on..rightly or wrongly. From memory, dont think we usually get a winning bonus against the Blues.
Its vital we do get a home semi final however so all points count imho.
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Re: obsession with bonus points. What's the, erm, point?

Postby MylesNaGapoleen » November 1st, 2009, 4:57 pm

fair points.
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Re: obsession with bonus points. What's the, erm, point?

Postby Donny B. » November 1st, 2009, 5:06 pm

I think going for the bonus point too early is what denied us one.
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Re: obsession with bonus points. What's the, erm, point?

Postby ronk » November 1st, 2009, 8:14 pm

Bonus point wins are nice. We've won losing bonus points which give us a big boost but still no winning bonus points in spite of 3 wins where we really should have used our advantage to finish the opposition off.

We didn't get a bonus point despite dominating Munster, a bonus point away against Brive would have been massive for our Heineken Cup chances. Last night was an opportunity, it would have taken a bit but it we had some good chances and if we'd put Cardiff to the sword earlier we might have run away with the game enough.

In this league you need to take your points where you can get them and that means you need to get as many bonus points as you can, as many wins as you can and you deny other teams bonus points where possible.

We may have scored the most points while conceding the fewest (and the fewest tries) but we've also scored less tries than everyone outside the bottom 2. Where that lack of tries is coming is that we're not breaching the line enough when we've beaten teams with 20 minutes to go.

All that said, Munster have 2 try bonus points but only one losing bonus point from 3 losses. A losing bonus point is something that can be turned into a win on a better day. Munster have needed to score tries to win games because they haven't been able to rely on their kicking game, hence they've also been less likely to score. They only have 43 kicked points (with conversions alone accounting for a possible 28). That's something positive we can take from the way we're playing.

One thing I would have liked us to do was score a drop goal or two. A 10 point lead 30-60 minutes into the game is when you should be looking to go for it. I saw Sexton getting into position once but the ball was very slow and Cardiff were set up for a charge-down.
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Re: obsession with bonus points. What's the, erm, point?

Postby Cianostays » November 1st, 2009, 9:00 pm

The clue is in the name for me. Win the game first, then and only then do you go looking for bonus points.
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Re: obsession with bonus points. What's the, erm, point?

Postby BlueBlue » November 1st, 2009, 10:43 pm

MylesNaGapoleen wrote:I'm baffled with the obsession with bonus points this season....Aren't they essentially meaningless in deciding the magners this season?

In other words, isn't the winner of this seasons magners league decided by a semi-final and final between the top four teams?

Leinster will cruise into the top 4 at the rate they're going, so, I'm not sure why there is an obsession about bonus points. last night I thought leinster lost the plot a little trying to push the game too much with moves and passes that weren't really on.


I dont think for a second that the players worry about bonus points in a league. I think they were trying to push the back line in a competitive outing. we only kicked to the corners when we were 10 or more ahead. I think it was an effort to get the back line clicking, this team has really only been together for 4 matches. And the back line were looking sharper then ever before this season.

I was happy to see your tread because i assumed it was aimed at stupid fans. Some fans seem to read the media saying that it should be easy for leinster, and then expect it to pan out like this on the pitch..........well it does not work like that. Some fans seem to be obsessed with bonus points. All we need to do in the league, is keep winning. We are top dont you know !
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Re: obsession with bonus points. What's the, erm, point?

Postby HarpinOnRugby » November 2nd, 2009, 10:11 am

I think it's a bit of an exaggeration to call it an "obsession" with bonus points, no???

If it's there, why not go for it???

Cardiff were always going to play a thwarting game on the night given their depleted squad, and given the XV we had out there, one of our strongest of the season, a more conservative approach could've played right into their hands.

Perhaps Luke should've done the textbook thing and kicked for territory rather than dart up the touchline and set up Shaggy's wonder try? ;-)

Fair play to them for their early statement of intent, I say.
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Re: obsession with bonus points. What's the, erm, point?

Postby Armchair » November 2nd, 2009, 10:37 am

What do you want them to do? Give up after scoring 3 tries?
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Re: obsession with bonus points. What's the, erm, point?

Postby wavydavy » November 2nd, 2009, 11:36 am

Cianostays wrote:The clue is in the name for me. Win the game first, then and only then do you go looking for bonus points.


Argee 100% - the score on saturday was a bit flattering at the end, blues put up a good denfense apart from their lapses at the start and end of the game and if Blair had of knocked over some of those missed penalties it could have ended up like last years encounter. So a home win was very welcomed bonus point or no bonus point.
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Re: obsession with bonus points. What's the, erm, point?

Postby neiliog93 » November 4th, 2009, 8:42 pm

We need to be more clinical, it's very simple really.
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Re: obsession with bonus points. What's the, erm, point?

Postby Pemberton Scarlet » November 4th, 2009, 9:34 pm

MylesNaGapoleen wrote:I'm baffled with the obsession with bonus points this season....Aren't they essentially meaningless in deciding the magners this season?

In other words, isn't the winner of this seasons magners league decided by a semi-final and final between the top four teams?

Leinster will cruise into the top 4 at the rate they're going, so, I'm not sure why there is an obsession about bonus points. last night I thought leinster lost the plot a little trying to push the game too much with moves and passes that weren't really on.


Sounds to me like you have no idea on the concept.
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Re: obsession with bonus points. What's the, erm, point?

Postby MylesNaGapoleen » January 1st, 2010, 4:41 pm

Pemberton Scarlet wrote:Sounds to me like you have no idea on the concept.


As I understand it, the top 4 magners league teams enter a semi-final playoff and grand final to decide this seasons champion.

is my understanding correct? ..or is there a different concept?

Bonus points have been important for the last few years in deciding who is champion on the final day. My point is, with the new format, winning games is what's important in the magners this season - not bonus points and that affects game-plans significantly, Pemberton Scarlet. Hence my point earlier in the original post...which was specifically about the cardiff blues game at the end of oct. The game plan was obviously bonus point driven...but what it led to was a lot of moves and passes that weren't really on. Despite the score (23-6, i think), it almost backfired for leinster on a few occasions during that game. One or two better passes and cardiff could have been within a score of winning at the RDS.

if you're suggesting that bonus points will decide who is in the top 4, fair enough, but, I would wager that a gap will open up between the top 4 and the rest between now and the end of the season and it will be based on games won, rather than bonus points.
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Re: obsession with bonus points. What's the, erm, point?

Postby Danthefan » January 1st, 2010, 5:11 pm

Wanting to see your team score tries and have the maximum number of points possible is odd alright isn't it :?

There's huge benefit to topping the league, i.e. a SF and final in the RDS.
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Re: obsession with bonus points. What's the, erm, point?

Postby MylesNaGapoleen » January 2nd, 2010, 12:57 am

Danthefan wrote:Wanting to see your team score tries and have the maximum number of points possible is odd alright isn't it :?

I agree. that's not what i'm saying. I say win the game first and then let loose for the bp. in that particular game, it was let loose almost from the start...a gme plan that almost backfired

Danthefan wrote:There's huge benefit to topping the league, i.e. a SF and final in the RDS.


i'm not sure if that is the case. afaik the rds is too small for the grand final...and will just about make it for the semis, which requires an 18k capacity ground.
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Re: obsession with bonus points. What's the, erm, point?

Postby Danthefan » January 2nd, 2010, 12:59 am

"The team that reaches the Grand Final having achieved the highest finishing position in the regular Magners League shall have the right to nominate a venue of more than 18k capacity within its own Union's jurisdiction to host the game".
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Re: obsession with bonus points. What's the, erm, point?

Postby ronk » January 2nd, 2010, 1:09 am

MylesNaGapoleen wrote:
Danthefan wrote:Wanting to see your team score tries and have the maximum number of points possible is odd alright isn't it :?

I agree. that's not what i'm saying. I say win the game first and then let loose for the bp. in that particular game, it was let loose almost from the start...a gme plan that almost backfired

Danthefan wrote:There's huge benefit to topping the league, i.e. a SF and final in the RDS.


i'm not sure if that is the case. afaik the rds is too small for the grand final...and will just about make it for the semis, which requires an 18k capacity ground.


That's Heineken Cup you're thinking of. RDS is big enough. In fact it looks like the number was decided on with the RDS in mind.

http://www.magnersleague.com/grandfinal/index.php
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Re: obsession with bonus points. What's the, erm, point?

Postby Cianostays » January 2nd, 2010, 1:10 pm

ronk wrote:That's Heineken Cup you're thinking of. RDS is big enough. In fact it looks like the number was decided on with the RDS in mind.

http://www.magnersleague.com/grandfinal/index.php


It must've been. How else would they have come up with 18,000 as their figure?
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Re: obsession with bonus points. What's the, erm, point?

Postby fourthirtythree » January 2nd, 2010, 1:20 pm

Yeah, I was thinking that too when I saw it.
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