A whiff of Cordite

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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby desperado » March 5th, 2019, 11:41 pm

RoboProp wrote:Wardy's latest piece of detritus posing as a newspaper article, is IMO a thinly veiled attempt to undermine Sexton. As soon as Joey Carbery put pen to ink and said he was off Ward has been needling away with sarky mean girls lite comments about Sexto, and big upping Joey.
Does he see in Joey and Johnny a modern facsimile of himself and Campbell?
Ward and Carbery certainly have their style of play and turn coat ways in common.
I had to laugh at the comparison Ward made to Johnny and Roy Keane, he used this as a chance to sing Keane's praises and have another dig at Johnny. He's right though Johnny never walked out on his national team in their hour or need and Keane never won sh!t worth a damn with Ireland.


I'm no fan of Ward's writings; but I think you're misreading him. He pointedly doesn't compare Sexton and Keane; Quote: And please spare comparison with Roy Keane at his fiery but equally self-absorbed best. Great leaders inspire, they don't alienate. Unquote. i.e. urges the reader not to compare; and describes Keane as self absorbed- hardly signing his praises - 'self absorbed', álienating''.
While his criticisms of Sexton are a bit over the top; there is an element of truth to them. If he reacted differently to Wycherly's late hit early doors, it could have been a pen for us and a set a different tone for all. Carbery's name isnt mentioned once in the article you refer to.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby ronk » March 6th, 2019, 3:02 am

Making a big deal of that is wildly over the top and reflective of the charged partisan atmosphere.

As well as an incorrect reading of the incident. Late can be okay, lifting a player after the ball is gone is intent. Sexton was lifted into a position where he could have been speared, he fought out from under Wycherley. Anyone else should do the same.

Wycherley moves to get closer to Sexton to land harder on him which is when the scrumcap happened. Wycherley retaliated violently by lifting Sexton again and is prevented from driving him into the ground.

He probably wasnt about to spear Sexton either time, but you cant be expected to passively accept a life altering injury.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby the spoofer » March 6th, 2019, 10:27 am

ronk wrote:Making a big deal of that is wildly over the top and reflective of the charged partisan atmosphere.

As well as an incorrect reading of the incident. Late can be okay, lifting a player after the ball is gone is intent. Sexton was lifted into a position where he could have been speared, he fought out from under Wycherley. Anyone else should do the same.

Wycherley moves to get closer to Sexton to land harder on him which is when the scrumcap happened. Wycherley retaliated violently by lifting Sexton again and is prevented from driving him into the ground.

He probably wasnt about to spear Sexton either time, but you cant be expected to passively accept a life altering injury.


I played with a narky 10 for a while. He pissed us off from time to time but anytime he got hit late we all piled in to the oppo. We need to see a bit of this from Leinster and Ireland. I doubt Fardy and Leavy will need any encouragement but some of the other forwards need to be reminded.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby OTT » March 6th, 2019, 11:02 am

Des Berry had something written in the paper today along the same lines.

Only yesterday I was watching on youtube where Willie Mason was taking liberties in an Oz vs GB rugby league match and Jamie Peacock came in and absolutely floored him, over 10 years old but still gets the blood going watching it as a neutral. POC's scraps with Cudmore for Munster or his punch up with Sidoli against Wales. Loads of memorable scraps.

If you do those things now you will be down a player for at least 10 minutes and probably the whole game. We give out about the way Nigel missed (or would not change his mind) about the hit on McFadden at the weekend because 99 times out of 100 it is a red card. There are people there who should be enforcing that call, we can't afford to do it on the pitch.

Would I have liked to see POM floor Sinckler for being a mouthy little bollix in the English match, sure but we would have lost POM and that little sh!t bag would have went on to the next play. It just is not worth it.

Rugby has changed you just can't afford to retaliate, at the minimum whatever penalty you get will get reversed but more then that you could be down a player. Ireland play a game based around discipline, it is what got us to the rank of second in the world.

I have a massive issue with the lack of suitable punishment on the hits on Sexton but I don't think the answer is to lose the heads it certainly did not work for Leinster in Thomond.

Clearly Ref's/AR's/TMO should all be made held accountable, the technology is all there now they should not be missing clear cut things, or seeing them but in a totally abstract way from everyone else.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby the spoofer » March 6th, 2019, 11:17 am

OTT wrote:Des Berry had something written in the paper today along the same lines.

Only yesterday I was watching on youtube where Willie Mason was taking liberties in an Oz vs GB rugby league match and Jamie Peacock came in and absolutely floored him, over 10 years old but still gets the blood going watching it as a neutral. POC's scraps with Cudmore for Munster or his punch up with Sidoli against Wales. Loads of memorable scraps.

If you do those things now you will be down a player for at least 10 minutes and probably the whole game. We give out about the way Nigel missed (or would not change his mind) about the hit on McFadden at the weekend because 99 times out of 100 it is a red card. There are people there who should be enforcing that call, we can't afford to do it on the pitch.

Would I have liked to see POM floor Sinckler for being a mouthy little bollix in the English match, sure but we would have lost POM and that little sh!t bag would have went on to the next play. It just is not worth it.

Rugby has changed you just can't afford to retaliate, at the minimum whatever penalty you get will get reversed but more then that you could be down a player. Ireland play a game based around discipline, it is what got us to the rank of second in the world.

I have a massive issue with the lack of suitable punishment on the hits on Sexton but I don't think the answer is to lose the heads it certainly did not work for Leinster in Thomond.

Clearly Ref's/AR's/TMO should all be made held accountable, the technology is all there now they should not be missing clear cut things, or seeing them but in a totally abstract way from everyone else.


I'm not talking about wading in flailing punches. How about they clip our 10, then we make sure to clip theirs. There are lots of ways to deal with it that won't get you a red and sometimes it's worthwhile getting a yellow.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby desperado » March 6th, 2019, 11:25 am

ronk wrote:Making a big deal of that is wildly over the top and reflective of the charged partisan atmosphere.

As well as an incorrect reading of the incident. Late can be okay, lifting a player after the ball is gone is intent. Sexton was lifted into a position where he could have been speared, he fought out from under Wycherley. Anyone else should do the same.

Wycherley moves to get closer to Sexton to land harder on him which is when the scrumcap happened. Wycherley retaliated violently by lifting Sexton again and is prevented from driving him into the ground.

He probably wasnt about to spear Sexton either time, but you cant be expected to passively accept a life altering injury.



Who's making a big deal of it exactly? You're description of the incident is highly embellished. It was reviewed; if any of the above or intent to do any of the above was true there would have been sanction. It was a marginally late hit (Sexton has taken a lot more 'late' and not reacted), Sexton pulls scrum cap off - which does nothing to injure but never looks good.
I agree with OTTs assessment later - he lost the head, Leinster then proceeded to lose the head (and focus) with Fardy being the most glaring, Furlong another. We lost the game because of discipline - not because Munster played better rugby. It's professional sport, and not like the old days where a 99 call would sort things out.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby desperado » March 6th, 2019, 11:25 am

ronk wrote:Making a big deal of that is wildly over the top and reflective of the charged partisan atmosphere.

As well as an incorrect reading of the incident. Late can be okay, lifting a player after the ball is gone is intent. Sexton was lifted into a position where he could have been speared, he fought out from under Wycherley. Anyone else should do the same.

Wycherley moves to get closer to Sexton to land harder on him which is when the scrumcap happened. Wycherley retaliated violently by lifting Sexton again and is prevented from driving him into the ground.

He probably wasnt about to spear Sexton either time, but you cant be expected to passively accept a life altering injury.



Who's making a big deal of it exactly? You're description of the incident is highly embellished. It was reviewed; if any of the above or intent to do any of the above was true there would have been sanction. It was a marginally late hit (Sexton has taken a lot more 'late' and not reacted), Sexton pulls scrum cap off - which does nothing to injure but never looks good.
I agree with OTTs assessment later - he lost the head, Leinster then proceeded to lose the head (and focus) with Fardy being the most glaring, Furlong another. We lost the game because of discipline - not because Munster played better rugby. It's professional sport, and not like the old days where a 99 call would sort things out.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby ronk » March 6th, 2019, 11:46 pm

desperado wrote:

Who's making a big deal of it exactly? You're description of the incident is highly embellished. It was reviewed; if any of the above or intent to do any of the above was true there would have been sanction. It was a marginally late hit (Sexton has taken a lot more 'late' and not reacted), Sexton pulls scrum cap off - which does nothing to injure but never looks good.
I agree with OTTs assessment later - he lost the head, Leinster then proceeded to lose the head (and focus) with Fardy being the most glaring, Furlong another. We lost the game because of discipline - not because Munster played better rugby. It's professional sport, and not like the old days where a 99 call would sort things out.


You were making a big deal about, Tony Ward was making a big deal about it, loads of other people made a big deal about it, there was even a recent interview with Wycherley about it.

"Highly embellished" is ad hominem, and I don't think you can support that with logic.

He might possible have gone on to a spear tackle is not nearly enough for a disciplinary hearing. No player should passively wait until too late to find out if in that position.

I don't think he was going for a spear tackle but Sexton was right to attempt evasion. Wycherley lifted Sexton twice off the ball, that's zero if players are being clean.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby suisse » March 9th, 2019, 5:32 am

Why does anyone read the Indo?

Would you continue to go a bakery if the bread is stale? Would you go to a swimming pool that's dirty? Would you take a bus that's full of knackers?

So why does anyone read the Indo?
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby Ruckedtobits » March 11th, 2019, 2:00 pm

Cummiskey is one of my least favourite rugby journalists but, even I have to admit, his output and industry can rarely be faulted. However, somebody - maybe a colleague or a sub-editor - should explain to him that his articles would be far better received if he acknowledged that his is but one viewpoint, or opinion, on the game, the players and even the Coaches.

Yes, he has opinions and possibly even has sometimes researched his topics. But rugby is a game of such complexity that there is almost always another viewpoint. He writes in a manner that is, so often, critical of the experienced, or traditional elements of the game, the players or the contest, that one can form the opinion that his columns are intended to be spiteful or shallow.

So, Gavin, knock the chip off that shoulder and use your undoubted knowledge of the game to inform and entertain us. It's an art form called good, and occasionally great, sports journalism.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby blockhead » March 12th, 2019, 12:44 am

Giving out about journalists giving out.
But other sports would kill for the amount of column inches rugby gets in the national press. It can't all be high quality and incisive demented mole level analysis. Joe public won't read that. And rugby needs Joe public. So take Suisse'sesses advice and don't read shite that you know is going to be shite. I don't read wardies ejaculation's, well just the headline, then I roll my eyes, like this :roll:.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby desperado » March 12th, 2019, 12:33 pm

ronk wrote:
desperado wrote:

Who's making a big deal of it exactly? You're description of the incident is highly embellished. It was reviewed; if any of the above or intent to do any of the above was true there would have been sanction. It was a marginally late hit (Sexton has taken a lot more 'late' and not reacted), Sexton pulls scrum cap off - which does nothing to injure but never looks good.
I agree with OTTs assessment later - he lost the head, Leinster then proceeded to lose the head (and focus) with Fardy being the most glaring, Furlong another. We lost the game because of discipline - not because Munster played better rugby. It's professional sport, and not like the old days where a 99 call would sort things out.


You were making a big deal about, Tony Ward was making a big deal about it, loads of other people made a big deal about it, there was even a recent interview with Wycherley about it.

"Highly embellished" is ad hominem, and I don't think you can support that with logic.

He might possible have gone on to a spear tackle is not nearly enough for a disciplinary hearing. No player should passively wait until too late to find out if in that position.

I don't think he was going for a spear tackle but Sexton was right to attempt evasion. Wycherley lifted Sexton twice off the ball, that's zero if players are being clean.


Spare me the latin; there's nothing personal in what I said. I can assure you I'm not making a 'big deal' (your words) of it. Leinster collectively were poorly disciplined that night, including Sexton, and it started with his reaction to Wycherly's late hit. You don't think that the comments below (from your post) are highly embellished; exaggerated.? Wycherly late hit, bit of shirt grabbing, bit of scrum cap pulled off.. handbags+ (hardly - I'm goin to spear ya or flatten ya with my 100 and odd kg). Seriously. Sexton needs a bit more ice in the veins and fire in the belly.

Lifting a player after the ball is gone is intent...
Sexton was lifted into a position where he could have been speared...
moves to get closer to Sexton to land harder on him...
is prevented from driving him into the ground....
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby Ruckedtobits » March 18th, 2019, 3:58 pm

Sounds pretty much like a perfect weekend for Cumiskey.
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