A whiff of Cordite

[Oldschool]

I'm struggling to see what the point of this even is. If you're about to join the Leinster academy and go to UCD then what's the point of being moved to anther academy and going to a different college? You're years away from first team games anyway so why bother? Especially when you know that the Leinster academy is likely to improve you more.

It's a different kettle of fish once your time in the academy is up, or if you haven't got an academy (or sub) offer from your own province, but if the idea is that he spots gaps in other provinces and fills them with schoolkids then it's a nonsense.

It's also an unnecessary expense. I'd imagine most of the Leinster academy lads live at home, so now you've to provide accom and potentially a car for them as well.

The coaching you'll get is the thing isn't it.
Who wouldn't want Lancaster to coach them.

If it were only that easy.

Yeah I get that but Nucifora would want to thread carefully.
Goose and golden egg being the nub of it.
The experience that Leinster players gained by playing in the final of the HCC is incalculable.

[Peg Leg]

What was implied was that Nucifora would decide which academy each schoolboy would be sent to.

Right so, it's time to burn this place to the ground. That's like Donald Trump deciding which refugees are entitled to US asylum.

Not quite The Donald is an American so he would understand the American equivalent of the mother and her child situation, perhaps even more so given the fact that many of their sons and daughters have given their lives to protect not only themselves but our good selves too.
Nucifora wouldn't have that kind of insider understanding although it is fair to say that the Aussies have pulled their weight in defending the "free world".
I'm sure most of us wouldn't be wishing him (Nucifora) well in this endeavour, so he has that much in common with Trump.

Replied in Friday's rant.

[neiliog93]

Outrageous. The final nail in the coffin of Irish provincial rugby identity, and a significant blow to Leinster Rugby. At this stage if there were a wealthy benefactor on hand I'd back breaking away from the IRFU altogether.

[Ruckedtobits]

Outrageous. The final nail in the coffin of Irish provincial rugby identity, and a significant blow to Leinster Rugby. At this stage if there were a wealthy benefactor on hand I'd back breaking away from the IRFU altogether.

Some of those benefactors have discussed the very such move - but, apart from the cost, it just wouldn't work. Nucifora and others at age-grade level i. IRFU would just boycott Leenster players for a couple of years until Leinster fell back in line.

The latest rumour is that Nucifora may have refused to confirm intake for one Provincial Academy, until after the JWC. No prizes for guessing which one.

[mildlyinterested]

Outrageous. The final nail in the coffin of Irish provincial rugby identity, and a significant blow to Leinster Rugby. At this stage if there were a wealthy benefactor on hand I'd back breaking away from the IRFU altogether.

Some of those benefactors have discussed the very such move - but, apart from the cost, it just wouldn't work. Nucifora and others at age-grade level i. IRFU would just boycott Leenster players for a couple of years until Leinster fell back in line.

The latest rumour is that Nucifora may have refused to confirm intake for one Provincial Academy, until after the JWC. No prizes for guessing which one.

on what grounds?

[neiliog93]

Outrageous. The final nail in the coffin of Irish provincial rugby identity, and a significant blow to Leinster Rugby. At this stage if there were a wealthy benefactor on hand I'd back breaking away from the IRFU altogether.

Some of those benefactors have discussed the very such move - but, apart from the cost, it just wouldn't work. Nucifora and others at age-grade level i. IRFU would just boycott Leenster players for a couple of years until Leinster fell back in line.

The latest rumour is that Nucifora may have refused to confirm intake for one Provincial Academy, until after the JWC. No prizes for guessing which one.

Could the IRFU afford to boycott Leinster players? Assuming money was ok via a benefactor, I would call their bluff for a couple of years and wait till they come crawling back.

[limecat]

Could the IRFU afford to boycott Leinster players? Assuming money was ok via a benefactor, I would call their bluff for a couple of years and wait till they come crawling back.

It's not money that'd worry me, players have a limited career time-wise and want to play at the top level. If they couldn't do that at Leinster, I've no doubt that some would move elsewhere.

[cormac]

Outrageous. The final nail in the coffin of Irish provincial rugby identity, and a significant blow to Leinster Rugby. At this stage if there were a wealthy benefactor on hand I'd back breaking away from the IRFU altogether.

Some of those benefactors have discussed the very such move - but, apart from the cost, it just wouldn't work. Nucifora and others at age-grade level i. IRFU would just boycott Leenster players for a couple of years until Leinster fell back in line.

The latest rumour is that Nucifora may have refused to confirm intake for one Provincial Academy, until after the JWC. No prizes for guessing which one.

Could the IRFU afford to boycott Leinster players? Assuming money was ok via a benefactor, I would call their bluff for a couple of years and wait till they come crawling back.

IRFU would most likely block us from playing in the Pro14 and Europe.

[Dave Cahill]

No, the IRFU would block us from playing Rugby Union full stop - they are the sanctioning body for the Island of Ireland. You can't play Rugby Union in Ireland without the IRFU sanctioning it.


Jesus wept.

[olaf the fat]

Aren't we the Leinster Branch of the IRFU? talk of boycotts, breakaways and wealthy benefactors taking controls are all b*%&!cks.

[blockhead]

Yeah, this boycott talk is nonsense and a bit embarrassing tbh. Strongly worded letters would have more effect.
The IRFU are going to redistribute the players around the country as they see fit, to best suit the national team.
All logical of course.
But they are tampering with the the one thing that has made Irish rugby a success in the pro era. The fans identity with their home provinces.
If you were a rugby fan back in the mid nineties you could not have forseen Irish rugby's change of fortune over the next 25 years. And there is really no explanation why we've been so successful except for the buy in by joe/joan public. That snowball effect raised the provinces, raised the profile of rugby and increased revenue. We can hold onto all our best players if we choose to, no other nation can do this against the Top14/Prem.
The IRFU are now treating the provinces as franchise's.

[wixfjord]

Yeah, this boycott talk is nonsense and a bit embarrassing tbh. Strongly worded letters would have more effect.
The IRFU are going to redistribute the players around the country as they see fit, to best suit the national team.
All logical of course.
But they are tampering with the the one thing that has made Irish rugby a success in the pro era. The fans identity with their home provinces.
If you were a rugby fan back in the mid nineties you could not have forseen Irish rugby's change of fortune over the next 25 years. And there is really no explanation why we've been so successful except for the buy in by joe/joan public. That snowball effect raised the provinces, raised the profile of rugby and increased revenue. We can hold onto all our best players if we choose to, no other nation can do this against the Top14/Prem.
The IRFU are now treating the provinces as franchise's.

That's a bit much! I'd say national team success, quality of coaching, player development, improvements on the commercial side, quality of imports have all had a part in that success!

And in fact, the thing a lot are railing against here is another one of the other success factors - the fact that by luck or design we have a model whereby the IRFU owns the players and can control a lot of their movement/playing time.

Certainly a rising tide of fandom has helped, but that's driven by many of the above factors, not the other way around.

[johng]

So how does all this work in practice?

Talented Young Player: Hi Nucky. I want to join the Leinster Academy and study in UCD.

Nucky: Hi Mate. Listen. We would rather you joined the Munster Academy and studied in UL

Talented Young Player: But all my mates are going to UCD and my house is walking distance from the college. My girlfriend is going there and...... Eh. I really want to play for Leinster as I grew up supporting them. Oh and Deco is my uncle and I really really HATE Munster.

Nucky.............

What does he say?
Go to Limerick or I'll fucken burst you?
Here's 50 grand a year and a house and a car?
You'll never play for Ireland?
Please please please. I'd be so happy?
I'll relocate your girlfriend and all your mates?

Strikes me more that it's an opportunity for the adventurous souls rather than a punishment/ultimatum. At the end of the day the player can always say.....

Feck it if I'm leaving home sure I'll go to Saracens, Toulouse, Whoever.
Right I'll play amateur Rugby for Marys/whoever for a year go to UCD and see what happens.
Make that 75 grand and a house and a car and you're on.
Feck it if I'm good enough you or your successor will change your/his/her mind about me playing for Ireland.

Nucky may be many things but he is not able to make a young well educated lad from a good home be his gimp just because he says so.

[Dave Cahill]

.

[Dave Cahill]

The guy has lost no sleep about leaving Lions and Irish Internationals on the scrapheap, do you think he'll give a rats ass about what a possible academy hire thinks? He can go to Sarries or Toulouse, he can be voted best player in the galaxy, but he won't be playing for Ireland. He'll be the Bernd Schuster of rugby.

[johng]

What if he plays REALLY REALLY well for Marys

[riocard911]

The guy has lost no sleep about leaving Lions and Irish Internationals on the scrapheap, do you think he'll give a rats ass about what a possible academy hire thinks? He can go to Sarries or Toulouse, he can be voted best player in the galaxy, but he won't be playing for Ireland. He'll be the Bernd Schuster of rugby.

With the blond mane and 'tache to go with it?

[ronk]

Yeah, this boycott talk is nonsense and a bit embarrassing tbh. Strongly worded letters would have more effect.
The IRFU are going to redistribute the players around the country as they see fit, to best suit the national team.
All logical of course.
But they are tampering with the the one thing that has made Irish rugby a success in the pro era. The fans identity with their home provinces.
If you were a rugby fan back in the mid nineties you could not have forseen Irish rugby's change of fortune over the next 25 years. And there is really no explanation why we've been so successful except for the buy in by joe/joan public. That snowball effect raised the provinces, raised the profile of rugby and increased revenue. We can hold onto all our best players if we choose to, no other nation can do this against the Top14/Prem.
The IRFU are now treating the provinces as franchise's.

That's a bit much! I'd say national team success, quality of coaching, player development, improvements on the commercial side, quality of imports have all had a part in that success!

And in fact, the thing a lot are railing against here is another one of the other success factors - the fact that by luck or design we have a model whereby the IRFU owns the players and can control a lot of their movement/playing time.

Certainly a rising tide of fandom has helped, but that's driven by many of the above factors, not the other way around.

Wales had national team success. We had national and provincial success. They needed to both happen as we couldnt have kept our top players with uncompetitive provinces.

The net result of the redistribution is Munster still can't win a semi but we might not be able to win finals.

[Oldschool]

So how does all this work in practice?

Talented Young Player: Hi Nucky. I want to join the Leinster Academy and study in UCD.

Nucky: Hi Mate. Listen. We would rather you joined the Munster Academy and studied in UL

Talented Young Player: But all my mates are going to UCD and my house is walking distance from the college. My girlfriend is going there and...... Eh. I really want to play for Leinster as I grew up supporting them. Oh and Deco is my uncle and I really really HATE Munster.

Nucky.............

What does he say?
Go to Limerick or I'll fucken burst you?
Here's 50 grand a year and a house and a car?
You'll never play for Ireland?
Please please please. I'd be so happy?
I'll relocate your girlfriend and all your mates?

Strikes me more that it's an opportunity for the adventurous souls rather than a punishment/ultimatum. At the end of the day the player can always say.....

Feck it if I'm leaving home sure I'll go to Saracens, Toulouse, Whoever.
Right I'll play amateur Rugby for Marys/whoever for a year go to UCD and see what happens.
Make that 75 grand and a house and a car and you're on.
Feck it if I'm good enough you or your successor will change your/his/her mind about me playing for Ireland.

Nucky may be many things but he is not able to make a young well educated lad from a good home be his gimp just because he says so.

I really hate to burst your bubble (for obvious reasons I hope) but Nucky has already been able to get said D4heads to do exactly what you have said he wouldn't be able to (kind of).
There are a number of examples Joey, Nicky and Nordi.
Success becomes success.
As the other provinces load up with Leinster recruits, they become homes from home.
The girlfriends will get visitation rights, absence makes the heart grow fonder and sure there's always WhatsApp or some such.
There may well be a few bumps on the way but you can see how it could go.
About the only negative that I can think of might be having to look at an angry face every day.
But that won't last forever.

[leinsterforever]

Other provinces making use of Leinster's surplus schools talent is to be welcomed. Eric O'Sullivan, Alan O'Connor, Dave Shanahan up at Ulster is good for Irish rugby. If Nucifora can find ways to incentivise that type of thing - both from the province's end and the player who just misses the cut at Leinster's end - then I'd be all for it. But pressuring someone who Leinster want, and who wants to play for Leinster, to go elsewhere, would make me feel uneasy. You'd be playing a dangerous game. What if Munster's academy didn't train up the player as well? Or what if whoever was coaching Munster was averse to playing the young guys?

Seems to me that it would be more sensible to look at how Munster's academy functions. What do they look for when selecting entrants? Is it just brutes and not much emphasis on skills? I can't say I was too impressed with the rugby the U20s played under Peter Malone. It was all just one-out rubbish. What about a real, IRFU-Instigated shake up? Maybe get someone from England's U20s programme in to take over. They've been very good the last number of years.