A whiff of Cordite

ronk · Post by **ronk** » January 17th, 2020, 7:02 pm

From those stats what jumps out is that Connacht and Ulster are getting great value out of 22 year old outhalves who didn't get a shot in Munster. 22 games between them so far this season.

Connacht should sign Healy or Flannery.

There are 2 Leinster outhalves in the Ireland squad and we can expect that going forward. Frawley is in a great position.

Munster had to keep Bleyandaal because they couldn't lose him and Keatley at the same time.

Plámásing · Post by **Plámásing** » January 17th, 2020, 7:23 pm

Connacht don’t need Healy or Flannery they already have Conor Dean who looked up to the task when he played SCT with Doris. It’s “don’t lose a game at all costs” approach that prevents these provinces playing their youngsters. Healy should be getting more game time at Munster in the next season or two but it’s the reluctance to allow players usurp their elders that is leading to stagnation in player development. It decreases competition in the squad. They should operate under the mantra if you’re good enough you’re old enough

D4surfer · Post by **D4surfer** » January 17th, 2020, 10:10 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/ ... relegation

Saracens going down for definite it seems.

blockhead · Post by **blockhead** » January 17th, 2020, 10:15 pm

A good day for Geordan Murphy and Declan Kidney.
Stephen Jones, not a good day.

Oldschool · Post by **Oldschool** » January 17th, 2020, 11:25 pm

D4surfer wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/ ... relegation

Saracens going down for definite it seems.

Another 35 points deduction might be enough to relegate them but it could be a damn close run thing.
Saracens have -7-35 = -42.
8 games played, 14 remaining.
14 * 5 = 70 Saracens would be well capable of winning every game and getting a TBP if the pressure was really on.
70-42 = 28
28 points that's the target for the other teams to beat to avoid relegation.
Looking at Leicester's performance to date it could be a very close race for survival.
The unknowable would be, would other PRL teams "give" Leicester points if they "needed" then.

cormac · Post by **cormac** » January 17th, 2020, 11:32 pm

Saracens won't get 70pts. They'll lose their best players for the 6N for starters.

outcast eddie · Post by **outcast eddie** » January 18th, 2020, 4:13 am

Oldschool wrote:
D4surfer wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/ ... relegation

Saracens going down for definite it seems.
Another 35 points deduction might be enough to relegate them but it could be a damn close run thing.
Saracens have -7-35 = -42.
8 games played, 14 remaining.
14 * 5 = 70 Saracens would be well capable of winning every game and getting a TBP if the pressure was really on.
70-42 = 28
28 points that's the target for the other teams to beat to avoid relegation.
Looking at Leicester's performance to date it could be a very close race for survival.
The unknowable would be, would other PRL teams "give" Leicester points if they "needed" then.

The other unknowable would be the collective psychological effect this will have on the squad particularly if there is a cull coming down the line. Commitment to the cause may waver as players are cut.

Theleinsterlad · Post by **Theleinsterlad** » January 18th, 2020, 10:19 am

A lot of crying on twitter from sarries fans about the fact that irish and French wage bills are way higher than 7mill. I know the French are but does anyone have a rough idea what our wage bill looks like with the IRFU paid players included? I know people hear the word 45 players used but a lot are on academy contracts which helps us somewhat

Dave Cahill · Post by **Dave Cahill** » January 18th, 2020, 11:44 am

Theleinsterlad wrote:A lot of crying on twitter from sarries fans about the fact that irish and French wage bills are way higher than 7mill. I know the French are but does anyone have a rough idea what our wage bill looks like with the IRFU paid players included? I know people hear the word 45 players used but a lot are on academy contracts which helps us somewhat

Most English Clubs wage bills are higher than 7 million. Thats only the base figure. There are add-ons for academy players, England Internationals, education, and nominated Marquee Players aren't counted towards the salary cap at all. A top club with lots of England Internationals and homegrown players could probably have a completely legal wage bill closer to 10-11 million than 7.

All we know is that the IRFU spends c.45 million on the entire professional game (40 million of which is player and management costs) and a further 11 million on elite player development (incl. womens rugby, sevens, u20s, academies and the High Performance Unit)

ronk · Post by **ronk** » January 18th, 2020, 12:26 pm

Whether the salary cap is fair in terms of European competition is immaterial. It is relevant in the top tier of the English league and is decided on by those cl

D4surfer · Post by **D4surfer** » January 20th, 2020, 4:17 pm

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-radi ... ever-pro14

A suggestion that Saracens could join the Pro14.

riocard911 · Post by **riocard911** » January 20th, 2020, 4:32 pm

Just listened to the BBC 5 rugby podcast recorded at Allianz Park yesterday evening after the Racing match. Brendan Venter was spouting the Planet Saracen line full bore. According to him, Sarries' difficulties are solely attributable to Nigel Ray's "kindness"; plus the "Wolfpack" is gonna stick together, spend a season bonding even further underneath the Prem only to return bigger, meaner, tougher whatever..... Yeah, right. Ar aon nós the Fez heads are currently nurturing a pathological sense of victimhood. Dare I say "Dolchstoßlegende"? It could make them more dangerous in April than they already are....

Twist · Post by **Twist** » January 21st, 2020, 12:07 pm

Trust the Germans to have a word for that!

They can't stick together unless they're willing to eat enormous paycuts. And if they're willing to do that then why didn't they do it this year and avoid relegation? I'm not sure Brendan Venter understands the root of the problem here!

There's a chance of some ill feeling amongst the English players during the Six Nations. I'd say Eddie will be well on top of that, but if he isn't it'll only add to the desperation of da wolfpack(tm) to get back playing in black in March.

By the way, I've no idea whether this is true but I keep seeing people say on twitter & facebook that teams must be within the premiership salary cap for two years prior to earning promotion.

locho · Post by **locho** » January 21st, 2020, 12:19 pm

I was listening to The Ruck podcast yesterday and Lawrence Dallaglio (Currently a director of Wasps) was saying that the current rules of Premiership salary cap state that a team being promoted from the championship must be compliant with the cap in the season they were promoted but also in the preceding season. If that rule is upheld then it's possible that Saracens may have to spend 2 years in the Championship as we know that they are not compliant this season!!

As a side note, Stephen Jones is usually a contributor to the podcast but hasn't been on it in about 3 weeks!

Twist · Post by **Twist** » January 21st, 2020, 12:43 pm

Here’s a couple of tweets hinting at why he’s not on it these days. I guess everyone else is blocked.
Apologies if I’ve sized the images incorrectly.

I didn’t realise he wasn’t on it. I might listen to it now

Twist · Post by **Twist** » January 21st, 2020, 12:43 pm

Twist · Post by **Twist** » January 21st, 2020, 12:44 pm

Apparently, no one but him has any choice in whether he’s on it or not!

locho · Post by **locho** » January 21st, 2020, 12:58 pm

Twist wrote:Apparently, no one but him has any choice in whether he’s on it or not!

I listened to the Episode when the story broke and he was in complete denial there was any wrongdoing, the rest of them were aghast at his position and called him out on it. He kept referring to a quote from the report trying to justify this position. Tensions were certainly high between himself and Dallaglio to the point where they didn't appear together on the POD for the next 2-3 weeks. Now could've been scheduling but was nice to think they'd had a proper falling out over it.

jimbobjoe · Post by **jimbobjoe** » January 21st, 2020, 1:01 pm

locho wrote:I listened to the Episode when the story broke and he was in complete denial there was any wrongdoing, the rest of them were aghast at his position and called him out on it. He kept referring to a quote from the report trying to justify this position. Tensions were certainly high between himself and Dallaglio to the point where they didn't appear together on the POD for the next 2-3 weeks. Now could've been scheduling but was nice to think they'd had a proper falling out over it.

Which epidose/date was that? I'd like to have a listen

TrapperChamonix · Post by **TrapperChamonix** » January 21st, 2020, 1:11 pm

locho wrote:I was listening to The Ruck podcast yesterday and Lawrence Dallaglio (Currently a director of Wasps) was saying that the current rules of Premiership salary cap state that a team being promoted from the championship must be compliant with the cap in the season they were promoted but also in the preceding season. If that rule is upheld then it's possible that Saracens may have to spend 2 years in the Championship as we know that they are not compliant this season!!

As a side note, Stephen Jones is usually a contributor to the podcast but hasn't been on it in about 3 weeks!

I've seen this mentioned on Twitter by a few individuals. I heard it referenced obtusely on TheRugbyPod this morning. If true, it is the biggest bombshell of all. If true, I can't understand why this isn't the biggest story out there. There is no way you hold on to any players for 2 years!!! Anyone got a definite source on this?

Babbling 'brook