A whiff of Cordite

[neiliog93]

What's the background on Cummiskey being banned from Off the Ball?

[mildlyinterested]

What's the background on Cummiskey being banned from Off the Ball?

All times writes banned fron newstalk

[Spellster]

6."Donnacha Ryan is denied an IRFU contract due to his age yet Heaslip and Toner are handed deals until 2020. There’s no money to give Zebo an IRFU contract yet Leinster have two looseheads for example (Healy and McGrath) on central deals, while Rob Kearney also signed a three-year central deal back in 2015. The earth, moon and the stars were also moved to bring Jonny Sexton back from France. Don’t get us started on the likes of James Lowe and Scott Fardy being brought in. That’s an article in itself".

Response: i) Donnacha Ryan was not a Lion at the time of his renewal, and deemed relatively less important to the Irish team than Heaslup at the time (as well as having a much worse injury record; Heaslip's current back issue is remarkably the first serious injury of his career despite the fact that he is 33). There has been some criticism of the length of Heaslip's deal in particular, but the IRFU also received criticism before when their contract offers were too short, as it meant that the ugly, media-dominated spectre of contract negotiations came up far too regularly and they were pressured into giving another salary raise. Equally, some players demand 3-year contracts as a condition for signing any contract at all, and the IRFU choose to grant them for the sake of tying down a player who at the time of negotiations is a certain starter in the national team (without the long-term offer, these guys would leave). There are pros and cons for both ways of handling negotiations, but it is much less black and white than you make it out to be.
ii) The two Leinster looseheads are on central deals because they are both Test Lions class and the front row in particular is an area where you need depth, and where Irish teams have traditionally lacked it. Again, central contracts were available at the time of their negotiations, so they benefited from that.
iii) Lowe and Fardy's salaries are paid by Leinster. Munster have been allowed to bring in more NIQ signings than Leinster in recent years; NIQ players to represent Munster in the last three seasons are: Taute, Cloete, Grobler, Kleyn, Bleyendaal, Marshall, Deysel, Saili, Sagario, Botha, Van Den Heever vs. Lowe, Fardy, Nacewa, Gibson-Park, Te'o, Kirchner and Triggs for Leinster in the same period.

You forgot Mark Chisholm playing for Munster as well, the 4th second row on that list. 18 months ago everyone was praising Munster for their second row production line, now it has almost run dry with them having to sign 4 NIQs since the world cup as well as spending big money on Darren O'Shea and Tadgh Beirne, bringing Mark Flanagan in as cover and converting Robin Copeland to second row.

Whoever let John Madigan leave for RC Massey should be fired, he's been in the ProD2 team of the week nearly every week while over there,
he was let go after Dave Foley and Donnacha Ryan left.https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKjNHFjXoAI-lGr.jpg:large

Also, last year when Saili got injured I thought it would be a great opportunity for Cian Bohane, a 25 year old, 6ft 2, 100 kg second centre to finally get his chance with Munster, but instead Jaco Taute, a 25 year old, 6ft 2, 100 kg centre was given big money to come over short term and then even bigger money to stay. Cian Bohane has since quit rugby after becoming disillusioned with it.

[fourthirtythree]

After all that; did anyone actually read Dárce's article referenced by Xanthippe? The myopic bile on rugbylad is not worth wasting time reading let alone replying to; full of half truths and bias. GD does make a case for keeping POM here; and personally I agree with him.

I did. I also thought she picked out the most interesting thing in it: Heaslip listed as an ex player.

I don't think his case was that good really. And I think they should keep him and he'd be a really big loss for Ireland. His argument is that they should pay what he wants to make him feel loved. I'm simplifying, but barely, the better argument is that we don't have a player quite like him and that they would pony out as much to Munster to replace.

He also wants to throw Stander away. Do the IRFU agree?

[suisse]

I've never heard of rugbylad or whatever it is called. Just briefly glanced over neiliog's response after briefly reading the article in question. This is not a serious website and he's not a credible journalist. He really doesn't deserve a response of that magnitude.

The whinging about media, self importance and the fans. Who cares. When he suggested this would "destroy Irish rugby", it became very clear he is a moron and a fool. He can say whatever he likes, but he doesn't have to be respected. I bet May 2009 is still an incredibly sore topic for him. Incredibly sore.

Fair enough but I saw that it had over 1,000 shares!

Yeah I hear ya. It's all a bit of fun. You'd like to think those 1000 shares are followed by but I wouldn't bet on it.

"It's a disgrace......."

[hugonaut]

Whoever let John Madigan leave for RC Massey should be fired, he's been in the ProD2 team of the week nearly every week while over there,
he was let go after Dave Foley and Donnacha Ryan left.https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKjNHFjXoAI-lGr.jpg:large

Great call on John Madigan - I was thinking of him a month or so ago and wondering what he was up to. Seemed such an odd move for Munster to cut him when Dave Foley announced that he was leaving. They knew that Chisholm was leaving by Christmas, they knew Ryan and Foley were leaving by the end of March, and they still let this guy head off. Strange decision.

I remember when Madigan turned up on the Munster Academy webpage at 199cm and 119kg as a 19 year old, an absolute massive guy – about 15kg heavier than all the other second rows in the county of his age group. At his U20s [Ross Molony's year] he got good reviews at the interpros but had a long term groin injury [osteitis pubis?] for the Six Nations and then got the mumps or glandular fever or something like that when he was selected for the JWC squad that summer.

He's getting his games in with Massy this season alright - he's played in 12 of their 14 games thus far [source: http://www.itsrugby.co.uk/player-zoom-3 ... -game.html ]. It's good going for a guy who had a good few injury issues earlier in his career. I don't think the training or the thinking at ProD2 is worth writing home about, but it's a decent league if you're a tight five forward. There are 16 teams so it's a regular season of 30 games.

[Peg Leg]

Honestly, stop giving that shite airtime. What is it, some idiot's blog or something? Badly written gibberish.

+1
Just waiting for "I seen..." to make an appearance. That blog smacks of a lad who used to contribute on a forum but couldn't cope with having to defend his opinion.
We all know what a great blog looks like (or at least used to, been a while now. #Hugonought), this is not it. His articles are forum length brainfarts.

[paddyor]

6."Donnacha Ryan is denied an IRFU contract due to his age yet Heaslip and Toner are handed deals until 2020. There’s no money to give Zebo an IRFU contract yet Leinster have two looseheads for example (Healy and McGrath) on central deals, while Rob Kearney also signed a three-year central deal back in 2015. The earth, moon and the stars were also moved to bring Jonny Sexton back from France. Don’t get us started on the likes of James Lowe and Scott Fardy being brought in. That’s an article in itself".

Response: i) Donnacha Ryan was not a Lion at the time of his renewal, and deemed relatively less important to the Irish team than Heaslup at the time (as well as having a much worse injury record; Heaslip's current back issue is remarkably the first serious injury of his career despite the fact that he is 33). There has been some criticism of the length of Heaslip's deal in particular, but the IRFU also received criticism before when their contract offers were too short, as it meant that the ugly, media-dominated spectre of contract negotiations came up far too regularly and they were pressured into giving another salary raise. Equally, some players demand 3-year contracts as a condition for signing any contract at all, and the IRFU choose to grant them for the sake of tying down a player who at the time of negotiations is a certain starter in the national team (without the long-term offer, these guys would leave). There are pros and cons for both ways of handling negotiations, but it is much less black and white than you make it out to be.
ii) The two Leinster looseheads are on central deals because they are both Test Lions class and the front row in particular is an area where you need depth, and where Irish teams have traditionally lacked it. Again, central contracts were available at the time of their negotiations, so they benefited from that.
iii) Lowe and Fardy's salaries are paid by Leinster. Munster have been allowed to bring in more NIQ signings than Leinster in recent years; NIQ players to represent Munster in the last three seasons are: Taute, Cloete, Grobler, Kleyn, Bleyendaal, Marshall, Deysel, Saili, Sagario, Botha, Van Den Heever vs. Lowe, Fardy, Nacewa, Gibson-Park, Te'o, Kirchner and Triggs for Leinster in the same period.

You forgot Mark Chisholm playing for Munster as well, the 4th second row on that list. 18 months ago everyone was praising Munster for their second row production line, now it has almost run dry with them having to sign 4 NIQs since the world cup as well as spending big money on Darren O'Shea and Tadgh Beirne, bringing Mark Flanagan in as cover and converting Robin Copeland to second row.

Whoever let John Madigan leave for RC Massey should be fired, he's been in the ProD2 team of the week nearly every week while over there,
he was let go after Dave Foley and Donnacha Ryan left.https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKjNHFjXoAI-lGr.jpg:large

Also, last year when Saili got injured I thought it would be a great opportunity for Cian Bohane, a 25 year old, 6ft 2, 100 kg second centre to finally get his chance with Munster, but instead Jaco Taute, a 25 year old, 6ft 2, 100 kg centre was given big money to come over short term and then even bigger money to stay. Cian Bohane has since quit rugby after becoming disillusioned with it.

He could never stay fit to get a run of games IIRC. Probably a bit like Beirne.

[fourthirtythree]

Here's Ronan O'Gara speaking sense from knowledge at the launch of TV3's coverage of the 6N as reported in the 42

http://www.the42.ie/peter-omahony-irela ... 1-Dec2017/

And here's the same material being treated rather differently in the Indo

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/in ... 92114.html

[riocard911]

Here's Ronan O'Gara speaking sense from knowledge at the launch of TV3's coverage of the 6N as reported in the 42

http://www.the42.ie/peter-omahony-irela ... 1-Dec2017/

And here's the same material being treated rather differently in the Indo

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/in ... 92114.html

"treated rather differently" is an understatement. Goddamn Spindo merchants won't be happy till Joe, the IRFU, Nucifora, Uncle Tom Cobbly et all have capitulated to our imperial masters in England and France!!! All they do is put down our system as antiquated and point to the supposed writing on the wall the whole time. Money talks seems to be the guiding principle at the Spindo. With their owner I'm not surprised. Who's to say they're not publicly denigrating the IRFU's current system, so that in their suggested "five years" Dennis O'Bribe can swoop in and buy up Leinster Rugby all for himself. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

[artaneboy]

Here's Ronan O'Gara speaking sense from knowledge at the launch of TV3's coverage of the 6N as reported in the 42

http://www.the42.ie/peter-omahony-irela ... 1-Dec2017/

And here's the same material being treated rather differently in the Indo

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/in ... 92114.html

"treated rather differently" is an understatement. Goddamn Spindo merchants won't be happy till Joe, the IRFU, Nucifora, Uncle Tom Cobbly et all have capitulated to our imperial masters in England and France!!! All they do is put down our system as antiquated and point to the supposed writing on the wall the whole time. Money talks seems to be the guiding principle at the Spindo. With their owner I'm not surprised. Who's to say they're not publicly denigrating the IRFU's current system, so that in their suggested "five years" Dennis O'Bribe can swoop in and buy up Leinster Rugby all for himself. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

It’s always fashionable in a populist world to be “agin the government.” That’s particularly evident in the sports media world. The Indo group are probably the most mouthy on this line, but most sensible people, from all provinces, make a balanced judgement on the benefits and downsides of the system.

The O’Mahony saga will end; one way or the other. Munster folk earnestly pray he’ll be retained at any cost; the rest of us are more clear-eyed on that price. The decision will be made on the implications for the system as a whole. Because beyond his case all agree (Munster, Leinster, everyone...) that the realities of our situation will remain- even the bloody Independent Group!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[simonokeeffe]

Their panel is excellent except for Matt Williams who is a turd in the punchbowl

[fourthirtythree]

Thornley in the Irish "paper of record" Times today "Scalping the Chiefs on their own patch was quite a feather in Leinster’s cap..."

Dick.

[Ruckedtobits]

Thornley in the Irish "paper of record" Times today "Scalping the Chiefs on their own patch was quite a feather in Leinster’s cap..."

Dick.

But, in his article about PO'M's National Contract, he did manage to slip in the gem of information that Tadgh's basic salary is higher that PO'M's. Proper order too. THP is the 2nd most valuable player after No 10. (Only recognised when you don't have a good one).

[johng]

Ah come on. That was a good one. Could be from the master of the genre Mark Robson.

[simonokeeffe]

Ah come on. That was a good one. Could be from the master of the genre Mark Robson.

Thornley isnt a pache on Robson

[Ruckedtobits]

Another extraordinary piece of Cummiskey-ego jounalism re Leo's Press Conference after Exeter in the Aviva. Not only does he quote his own questions but he barracks Leo for telling it like it is, but not answering his (Cummiskey's) ranting questions about Sexton's concussion / HIA result / Tackle Technique, in the manner desired by IT journalist. What a T*#d. No matter how you try to avoid.it, the smell remains.

[curates_egg]

Ah come on. That was a good one. Could be from the master of the genre Mark Robson.

Thornley isnt a pache on Robson

He's here all week, gents.

[Hippo]

Another extraordinary piece of Cummiskey-ego jounalism re Leo's Press Conference after Exeter in the Aviva. Not only does he quote his own questions but he barracks Leo for telling it like it is, but not answering his (Cummiskey's) ranting questions about Sexton's concussion / HIA result / Tackle Technique, in the manner desired by IT journalist. What a T*#d. No matter how you try to avoid.it, the smell remains.

I'm no fan of Cummiskey but those were all perfectly legitimate questions regarding the HIA and the tackle techniques employed, I was wincing watching the match. It's not like it's the first time Sexton's led with his head. No sure how this qualified as 'barracking' either.

[simonokeeffe]

Ah come on. That was a good one. Could be from the master of the genre Mark Robson.

Thornley isnt a pache on Robson

He's here all week, gents.

Try the fish

I dont see why theres any controversy over Sexton being kept off, am not willing to give him the click though