fourthirtythree wrote:The singling out of Aki compared to Strauss, Stander etc. kind of stinks. Make your own mind up of what, it it stinks.
If you are implying racism I wouldn't rule it out but Michael Bent was pilloried every bit as much as Aki is being now.
And Michael Bent was one of us (ethnic) whereas Aki quite obviously isn't.
So I would argue that there are other more parochial reasons.
Find the answer to the question "Who are the losers from Aki being capped for Ireland" short term initially and longer term if you feel up to it.
What are agendas?
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
fourthirtythree wrote:The singling out of Aki compared to Strauss, Stander etc. kind of stinks. Make your own mind up of what, it it stinks.
I don't buy this. Firstly, there's always been a hardcore of anti-project player critics who've given out about the likes of Strauss, Payne etc qualifying to play for Ireland (Franno etc). So them opposing Aki qualifying won't (in most cases) have anything to do with racial prejducie. I can certainly admit that there has been more general outcry over Aki playing for Ireland than other project players, but I think it primarily comes down to 2 things:
a) Many people can accept a certain number of project players, but there is eventually a tipping point where as the number of project players increases, this (to some) undermines the credibility of the 'national' team.
b) Aki really didn't help himself with his comments a year ago about not being Irish and it being wrong for him to represent Ireland; conversely the likes of Stander never anything like that publicly.
Rodney Ah You is also ethnically Polynesian and there was much less outcry when he played for Ireland, again because he had made no public comments about not being/feeling Irish then, and also because we had fewer project players in the team at the time. And yet he's non-white too. I don't agree with the racism angle being pushed here.
I agree with much, actually most if not all of what you say and I really am not saying anyone criticising this is racist. Not an interesting conversation for me to have in the first place. Many people here have had serious, ongoing concerns with project players. Even when it's white guys from South Africa who have burnt their bridges to come here. It's like the IRFU insisting on players playing here: all rational and for a purpose but nonetheless riles people up.
But here's the thing: you would have to be naive to believe that the world hadn't changed since Strauss first played for Ireland, that weaponised, rhetorical, racist, hate is not now a thing. In the mainstream. With platforms on all social media and therefore dominating the discourse we engage in. And that the virulence of the response to Aki in the general discourse is somehow distinct from that.
It isn't.
Specialist rugby discussions are quite a different concern (mostly)/
On the Aki (and while project player thing) this is a dead debate just filling newspaper/dead air space, the rule has changed to 5 years so the project player issue has been dealt with, yes there will be some players still to filter through but the debate is over medium-long term.
Now as to selection I seem to recall that international rugby was in its earliest begun as an invitation to the best players in a country playing against the best players in another country I don't think anyone checked passports at Scotland v England or for that matter Ireland v England. Indeed is someone checking passports at games between teams from the island of Britain? Cause that'd be interesting.
The rules are the rules and you play to them, yes have a debate and change those rules if needed, and this happened. So can we just get on with playing some rugby.
Ruckedtobits wrote:What a complete t*#rag is Daire O'Briain. Switching to Sky for as long as he covers Irish internationals!
He seems like he gets his talking points from the comments section of the indo
I did some freelance work for Setanta in 07. Daire didn't watch the games. Walking around, having a smoke etc. Unless he's changed now, this was 10 years ago.
He was very generous and friendly though. A nice guy. Certainly, compared to Paul Dempsey.
Ruckedtobits wrote:What a complete t*#rag is Daire O'Briain. Switching to Sky for as long as he covers Irish internationals!
He seems like he gets his talking points from the comments section of the indo
I did some freelance work for Setanta in 07. Daire didn't watch the games. Walking around, having a smoke etc. Unless he's changed now, this was 10 years ago.
He was very generous and friendly though. A nice guy. Certainly, compared to Paul Dempsey.
I don’t know either of them, but Dempsey strikes me as having Alan Partridge levels of self regard and ignorance. At least O’Briain seems engaged by more than the fact that he’s appearing on TV.
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"Oh, I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused!"
I did not listen to much of the pre, half time or post match discussions on RTE. (ROG and Shaggy have the makings of an excellent panel) But its the O'Brien's job to lob out the talking points for the panel to debate for good or bad. With a bad or stale panel this can lead to pantomime levels of debate. At least it not seating on the fence afraid to discuss anything controversial
olaf the fat wrote:I did not listen to much of the pre, half time or post match discussions on RTE. (ROG and Shaggy have the makings of an excellent panel) But its the O'Brien's job to lob out the talking points for the panel to debate for good or bad. With a bad or stale panel this can lead to pantomime levels of debate. At least it not seating on the fence afraid to discuss anything controversial
and ROG does a good job of shooting down the dumb things he says
was a bit surprised they all wanted to make an exception for Zebo
Last edited by simonokeeffe on November 13th, 2017, 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Retired from babbling. Can be found on twittter @okeeffesimon
"was a bit surprised they all wanted to make an exception for Zebo". That's cos they're playing to the crowd i.e. the casual rugby supporters sitting in front of the goggle box along with our Southern brethren. As the match vs RSA proved, it's Munster that will miss Zeebs and the excitement he undoubtedly brings, not Ireland.
I'm not sure ROG plays to the crowd in the same way Hook or Quinlan would. I find it hard to believe that someone who can be so brutally honest would lower himself to gain extra points on an issue like this.
Maybe he genuinely believes Zebo is on that level.
Off the Ball's coverage of Zebo was absolutely pandering to its southern audience. otb is usually good at jumping on the hot issue of the day and then not bothering a few days later. It'll be interesting to see if they make any effort to cover the women's six nations
riocard911 wrote:"was a bit surprised they all wanted to make an exception for Zebo". That's cos they're playing to the crowd i.e. the casual rugby supporters sitting in front of the goggle box along with our Southern brethren. As the match vs RSA proved, it's Munster that will miss Zeebs and the excitement he undoubtedly brings, not Ireland.
FFS lads it's a lot simpler than that.
Zebo is going to Racing (probably) what did ye expect ROG to say?
The two lads just waved him thru simply because there's no story, the decision has been made - I refer ye to none other than JS, whom the lads rate BTW.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
suisse wrote:I'm not sure ROG plays to the crowd in the same way Hook or Quinlan would. I find it hard to believe that someone who can be so brutally honest would lower himself to gain extra points on an issue like this.
Maybe he genuinely believes Zebo is on that level.
Off the Ball's coverage of Zebo was absolutely pandering to its southern audience. otb is usually good at jumping on the hot issue of the day and then not bothering a few days later. It'll be interesting to see if they make any effort to cover the women's six nations
My guess is that as ex players they sympathize with his decision to go abroad and don't think he should be "punished". ROG backed JJ when he went to Saints.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014 Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
