A whiff of Cordite

[Hornet]

You will get more sense reading tea leaves at the bottom of a cup, than some of the appalling reporting that appears in the Press.

I tried that ( the tea leaf thing). Didn't make any sense I'm sorry to report.

Must of had a piece of the Guardian Report stuck in the bottom of the cup.

[RoboProp]

Franno taking my Ross, Rachel and Joey line verbatim for his most recent musing. Disparaged it too he did. It was a throwaway gag Franno, a throwaway gag!

[ronk]

Franno taking my Ross, Rachel and Joey line verbatim for his most recent musing. Disparaged it too he did. It was a throwaway gag Franno, a throwaway gag!

A few other parts of that looked familiar too

[Peg Leg]

Franno taking my Ross, Rachel and Joey line verbatim for his most recent musing. Disparaged it too he did. It was a throwaway gag Franno, a throwaway gag!

A few other parts of that looked familiar too

In fairness Ronk, between yourself and the other 2 in your pitchfork wielding mob, he's not going to be stuck for 10000 words, is he?

[Peg Leg]

Eh, smiley face/jest etc.

[ronk]

He'll never be stuck for 10000 words.

I think Munster have got off lightly on this one.

[Peg Leg]

He'll never be stuck for 10000 words.

I think Munster have got off lightly on this one.

Honestly, I never would have guessed that.

[ronk]

He'll never be stuck for 10000 words.

I think Munster have got off lightly on this one.

Honestly, I never would have guessed that.

It's the focus on fact based and only lightly emotional discourse considering the disagreeable material.

[Ruckedtobits]

Murray Kinsella has become the bell-weather rugby journalist on this island. He regularly writes lucid and pertinent articles about teams, players, coaches and key influencers in Irish Rugby.

His piece in The42 @
http://www.the42.ie/david-nucifora-prov ... 3-Jun2018/
Is well worth a read where he quotes Nucifora's relevant comments on various aspects of the current rugby scene and then comments objectively on what the interviewee said.

Well done Murray and well done David Nucifora.

Nucifora is disliked by some of the Blazers, ignored by others, but totally isolated within them, as not one of the current Blazers has had any first-hand involvement in the Professional Game. They are thus incapable of understanding that Nucifora views it as a business which must be managed, not a pastime that can be manipulated to their personal interests, whether individual (becoming President), Provincial (getting another Touring game for Thomond) or National (who's going with the U.20's to Argentina next year).

These are the topics that are foremost in the minds of the Blazers in regards to professional rugby. So, when people want to complain about some of the decisions that Nucifora makes, they should stop for a moment and consider the motivations of those who made decisions before the advent of David Nucifora.

I know which is better for Irish international rugby.

[Ruckedtobits]

BTW, the quality of the MK analysis pieces is right at the top of the class and often discussed among players and some of the Pro coaches.

[Peg Leg]

BTW, the quality of the MK analysis pieces is right at the top of the class and often discussed among players and some of the Pro coaches.

Thanks Dave, good to know.

[Dave Cahill]

They are thus incapable of understanding that Nucifora views it as a business which must be managed.

Cool

So, a particular business has four senior management positions.

In a period of four years those four positions are filled by 10 different people.

Is that business being

a) Well managed?
b) Poorly managed?

Companies I have worked for in the past would consider that kind of turnover to be dysfunctional.

[FLIP]

They are thus incapable of understanding that Nucifora views it as a business which must be managed.

Cool

So, a particular business has four senior management positions.

In a period of four years those four positions are filled by 10 different people.

Is that business being

a) Well managed?
b) Poorly managed?

Companies I have worked for in the past would consider that kind of turnover to be dysfunctional.

Not to mention a business in the same group has carte blanche to headhunt people from elsewhere in the group because they can't produce their own talent.

Or the graduate framework is starting to show a reduction in quality at the entry phase (under 20s)

[Oldschoolsocks]

They are thus incapable of understanding that Nucifora views it as a business which must be managed.

Cool

So, a particular business has four senior management positions.

In a period of four years those four positions are filled by 10 different people.

Is that business being

a) Well managed?
b) Poorly managed?

Companies I have worked for in the past would consider that kind of turnover to be dysfunctional.

is this a fair comparison? is it missing an option - c) attrition?

One manager passed away, whose successor was a charlatan who got good results on the field but left at the first sniff of a better offer - that's 2
One left for a big dirty lorry-load of money - was succeeded by a man with a reasonably good CV but was unable to reach the heights of his predecessor - that's 2 more
One brought us success on the field (Pro 12 championship), left by "mutual agreement" - was succeeded by a really good plumber - that's another 2
I'm not going anywhere near to that car crash in the fourth green field.

should we also not factor in that these management positions are fixed-term contracts which, I believe, is more prone to frequent staff turnover

[paddyor]

Cool

So, a particular business has four senior management positions.

In a period of four years those four positions are filled by 10 different people.

Is that business being

a) Well managed?
b) Poorly managed?

Companies I have worked for in the past would consider that kind of turnover to be dysfunctional.

How many of them companies are organised like the IRFU? It's not a like for like comparison. Do Marketing fans shitpost the HR department? I think you're gilding the lily a bit laying all the blame for the coaching turnover at Nuciforas feet. The branches still have a lot of autonomy in coaching appointments. A quick run down.

Munster
Penney, offered a 1 year extension by the Munster branch and left. - Neutral for Nucifora
Foley and Co. Installed as a replacement. Moderately successful in his first season. After 1 and abit years the wheels come off and the IRFU initiate a review. Positive for Nucifora
Rassie installed, given a lot of support in terms of NIQs and is moderately sucessful, leaves after a year and a bit. D Ryan to Racing. Negative for Nucifora
JVG installed - moderatley successful with less NIQ support. Chris Farrell & Tadhg Beirne brought home. Something something Simon Zebo. Jury still out

Connacht
Pat Lam installed, not sure how involved Nucifora was here but the funding would have come from the IRFU so you'd have to think he was. Wins Connachts first league title . Excercises exit clause for a pay day as Connacht revert to the mean. Positive for Nucifora - Lam had run his race and they were better seeing the back of him IMO.
Keane installed, not many signings. Connachts worst season in a few years. Keane fired - Negative for Nucifora

Ulster
Anscombe fired by IRFU, alledgedly for off field stuff. Leaks say that by the end of tenure best and Muller were running the training sessions. The team losses several high profile players from the pack. Not sure how involved Nucifora is here.
Interim coaches appointed until Les Kiss takes over after the RWC. Ulster the HEc knockouts by a pt in the same group as eventual champs Saracens and come 4th in the league. Jury still out on Kiss. 2nd year Ulster slide to 5th in the league, missing play-offs by a pt but realisitcally no chance of ever winning it. Last in the HEC group. Leaks say disharmony in the coaching ticket, Clarke and Doak are the victims and they get the boot. Pienaar gets the boot as well. More leaks, Kiss screwed over Darren Cave, more vistims FOLK. I'm not going thru the OH saga again. henderson, not understanding what a feeder club is unhappy about a few signings. Gibbes family have reasons to go to LAR. More leaks FIRFU. Logan out the door. McFarland to be successor to Kiss. Naturally it leaks. They scrape into the HEC. Despite having no Coach and with the CEO on his way out the door, it leaks that Ulster tried to sign Jantjes but were blocked by the IRFU.....FIRFU - can't see any positive here for Nucifora but at the same time it's not all on him.

Leinster
As far as I know, all our coaching appointments were done by us. MOC was before his time, IIRC the decision to let him go was us. Cullen was installed by us he bombed in the HEC but made a PRo12 final. Henry brought in to advise. Lancaster brought in to assist and takes over most of the coaching duties. Make 2 SFs in the first season whyile developing lots of young talent. Leinster sign Scott Fardy and james Lowe to strengthen the squad and do a double while supplying the bulki of Irelands 3rd grand slam winning side. Something somethign Joey Carbery. Biggest provincial positive of Nuciforas tenure and all he really did was rubber stamp things.

I'm using moderately successful here as getting to Sfs and finals. All four teams can't be winners in the one year.

Since his appointment Ireland have 2 6N and a Slam and the lowest they've finished on the table is 3rd IIRC. We've done SH slam in a calendar year, featuring first wins over NZ and a maiden win in SA. We've also won a tour in Argentina. Most of the credit goes to the coach, but I think Nucifora deserves some for win in SA and the SH slam given the injury hit side we sent down there and the number of players we used through that season.

[Dave Cahill]

They are thus incapable of understanding that Nucifora views it as a business which must be managed.

Cool

So, a particular business has four senior management positions.

In a period of four years those four positions are filled by 10 different people.

Is that business being

a) Well managed?
b) Poorly managed?

Companies I have worked for in the past would consider that kind of turnover to be dysfunctional.

is this a fair comparison? is it missing an option - c) attrition?

One manager passed away, whose successor was a charlatan who got good results on the field but left at the first sniff of a better offer - that's 2
One left for a big dirty lorry-load of money - was succeeded by a man with a reasonably good CV but was unable to reach the heights of his predecessor - that's 2 more
One brought us success on the field (Pro 12 championship), left by "mutual agreement" - was succeeded by a really good plumber - that's another 2
I'm not going anywhere near to that car crash in the fourth green field.

should we also not factor in that these management positions are fixed-term contracts which, I believe, is more prone to frequent staff turnover

Who hired and fired the majority of these guys? Who was responsible for the release clauses? The person responsible for "professional coach development and succession planning." Its his job to manage attrition. No organisation can function properly with that kind of turnover. We saw what happened to Leinster on and off the pitch when we lost a huge %age of our playing, coaching and management staff in the same 12-18 month period.

I haven't actually counted in the Leinster coaching numbers in that figure as I have been told he has been kept at arms length in UCD

[Dave Cahill]

Cool

So, a particular business has four senior management positions.

In a period of four years those four positions are filled by 10 different people.

Is that business being

a) Well managed?
b) Poorly managed?

Companies I have worked for in the past would consider that kind of turnover to be dysfunctional.

How many of them companies are organised like the IRFU? It's not a like for like comparison. Do Marketing fans shitpost the HR department? I think you're gilding the lily a bit laying all the blame for the coaching turnover at Nuciforas feet. The branches still have a lot of autonomy in coaching appointments. A quick run down.

Munster
Penney, offered a 1 year extension by the Munster branch and left. - Neutral for Nucifora
Foley and Co. Installed as a replacement. Moderately successful in his first season. After 1 and abit years the wheels come off and the IRFU initiate a review. Positive for Nucifora
Rassie installed, given a lot of support in terms of NIQs and is moderately sucessful, leaves after a year and a bit. D Ryan to Racing. Negative for Nucifora
JVG installed - moderatley successful with less NIQ support. Chris Farrell & Tadhg Beirne brought home. Something something Simon Zebo. Jury still out

Connacht
Pat Lam installed, not sure how involved Nucifora was here but the funding would have come from the IRFU so you'd have to think he was. Wins Connachts first league title . Excercises exit clause for a pay day as Connacht revert to the mean. Positive for Nucifora - Lam had run his race and they were better seeing the back of him IMO.
Keane installed, not many signings. Connachts worst season in a few years. Keane fired - Negative for Nucifora

Ulster
Anscombe fired by IRFU, alledgedly for off field stuff. Leaks say that by the end of tenure best and Muller were running the training sessions. The team losses several high profile players from the pack. Not sure how involved Nucifora is here.
Interim coaches appointed until Les Kiss takes over after the RWC. Ulster the HEc knockouts by a pt in the same group as eventual champs Saracens and come 4th in the league. Jury still out on Kiss. 2nd year Ulster slide to 5th in the league, missing play-offs by a pt but realisitcally no chance of ever winning it. Last in the HEC group. Leaks say disharmony in the coaching ticket, Clarke and Doak are the victims and they get the boot. Pienaar gets the boot as well. More leaks, Kiss screwed over Darren Cave, more vistims FOLK. I'm not going thru the OH saga again. henderson, not understanding what a feeder club is unhappy about a few signings. Gibbes family have reasons to go to LAR. More leaks FIRFU. Logan out the door. McFarland to be successor to Kiss. Naturally it leaks. They scrape into the HEC. Despite having no Coach and with the CEO on his way out the door, it leaks that Ulster tried to sign Jantjes but were blocked by the IRFU.....FIRFU - can't see any positive here for Nucifora but at the same time it's not all on him.

Leinster
As far as I know, all our coaching appointments were done by us. MOC was before his time, IIRC the decision to let him go was us. Cullen was installed by us he bombed in the HEC but made a PRo12 final. Henry brought in to advise. Lancaster brought in to assist and takes over most of the coaching duties. Make 2 SFs in the first season whyile developing lots of young talent. Leinster sign Scott Fardy and james Lowe to strengthen the squad and do a double while supplying the bulki of Irelands 3rd grand slam winning side. Something somethign Joey Carbery. Biggest provincial positive of Nuciforas tenure and all he really did was rubber stamp things.

I'm using moderately successful here as getting to Sfs and finals. All four teams can't be winners in the one year.

Since his appointment Ireland have 2 6N and a Slam and the lowest they've finished on the table is 3rd IIRC. We've done SH slam in a calendar year, featuring first wins over NZ and a maiden win in SA. We've also won a tour in Argentina. Most of the credit goes to the coach, but I think Nucifora deserves some for win in SA and the SH slam given the injury hit side we sent down there and the number of players we used through that season.

Penny was gone (Foley actually started as head coach on the same day as Nucifora started with the IRFU) and Lam in situ before Nucifora arrived. It was his insistence on a release clause when Lam renewed his contract that allowed Lam (and Erasmus) to leave in the manner he did. I've also not included Leinster dealings at all.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Who hired and fired the majority of these guys? Who was responsible for the release clauses? The person responsible for "professional coach development and succession planning." Its his job to manage attrition. No organisation can function properly with that kind of turnover. We saw what happened to Leinster on and off the pitch when we lost a huge %age of our playing, coaching and management staff in the same 12-18 month period.

I haven't actually counted in the Leinster coaching numbers in that figure as I have been told he has been kept at arms length in UCD

I think you’re creating a false dichotomy here though Dave, attrition happens more frequently in the fixed term contract market, the fact that Rassie couldn’t be trusted is not managements fault an not competing with a couple of lorry loads of cash for Lam to stay on is good management - find an affordable replacement and move on. Which by the way worked for Leo who regardless of hired him in the first place identified and acknowledged his gaps and moved to hire very astutely indeed - appointments which you have to assume had to be reviewed and signed off by the higher management.

Do I think it’s being well managed - maybe, maybe not but comparing it to any company in the real world doesn’t seem like a fair comparison at all.

[ronk]

I think the MK article was generous in its interpretations.

Saying that cutting Pienaar was done for Cooney is off the mark. It worked out in the end, but accidentally. Cooney toured with Ireland before he spent 1 day in Ulster. He's fighting it out for 3rd choice scrumhalf.

Its hard to quantify Nucifora's impact for Ireland because of Joe's role.

Nucifora's real impact has been on signings like Kleyn, JHP, and Marshall.

He talks about hard decisions but he just accommodates blazers in Munster. If he could make hard decisions Carbery would be in Ulster.

[Dave Cahill]

I work in a market dominated by FTC's and if any project I worked on had that kind of attrition someone would have a lot of uncomfortable questions to answer. A fixed term contract is still a contract for a fixed term (if that isn't being too literal). You don't just give someone a term by pulling a duration out of the air, you do it because you want them to stay that long (at least) all other things being equal. Ultimately no project will succeed if your staff keep walking out the door because you insisted on bilateral release clauses or you keep firing them because they were bad hires in the first place,