A whiff of Cordite

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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby blockhead » January 30th, 2019, 11:04 am

What could Joey say? He has to show ambition, just like Jonny did when trying to oust ROG.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby Oldschool » January 30th, 2019, 11:29 am

TerenureJim wrote:
ronk wrote:Trying to use the media to help get selected is not a good look, especially on the eve of the 6N.

https://www.the42.ie/joey-carbery-irela ... 8-Jan2019/


Zebo or Joey?

One cracking performance against a poor Prem team does not get you ahead of world player of the year in a World Cup year he might get a nod for Italy or Scotland to see what he can do, but the games fall poorly to make that set up.

I'm not convinced by his ability to run a game and if I was Joey I'd be more concerned at Byrne, Burns et al putting pressure on him for back up

I know a lot of punters have the hots for Byrne but let's look at the reality.
First up they're totally different types of player.
Whoever organised Joey's move got it wrong, Byrne would suit Munster much better than Joey and Joey suits Leinster.
Byrne is developing into a very good player, maybe the move was a year too soon for him.
Joey is going to drown in Munster, nothing to do with the pressure from Byrne.
Nothing to do with his ability, everything to do with their culture and the way they play the game and there's no sign of that changing.
The really sad thing is that Ireland are going to lose Joey to a foreign body when his Munster contract is up unless one of the other provinces are allowed to sign him.
The original (rumour has it) plan to move him to Ulster was the correct one, shame on Munster and Jocifora for letting the Munster move happen.
What has happened to Joey is like the children's hospital, one big f^ck up.
The answer for both is to relocate.
Byrne's role in all of the above is peripheral at most
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby jimbobjoe » January 30th, 2019, 11:35 am

blockhead wrote:What could Joey say? He has to show ambition, just like Jonny did when trying to oust ROG.


Exactly - imagine if he came out and said he was happy to just make up the numbers!
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby Laighin Break » January 30th, 2019, 1:25 pm

jimbobjoe wrote:
blockhead wrote:What could Joey say? He has to show ambition, just like Jonny did when trying to oust ROG.


Exactly - imagine if he came out and said he was happy to just make up the numbers!


Yep, I'd imagine every player in that squad would love to start every game in the 6N (well maybe with the exception of one or two players carrying knocks), no other way to answer the question.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby wixfjord » January 30th, 2019, 3:27 pm

Oldschool wrote:let's look at the reality.


Oldschool wrote:What has happened to Joey is like the children's hospital, one big f^ck up.



So let's look at the reality then.

So far Joey's move has gone swimmingly for all involved except Leinster.

He has played at 10 far more than he would've with us, has kicked well, gotten MOTM in a big Euro game and been nominated for a big individual award.

I would say that so far, the reality is it has been a good move.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby XyzFoo » January 31st, 2019, 2:12 am

wixfjord wrote:
Oldschool wrote:He has played at 10 far more than he would've with us, has kicked well, gotten MOTM in a big Euro game and been nominated for a big individual award.

I would say that so far, the reality is it has been a good move.


Absolutely - for him, Munster and Ireland. Just because we are/might be aggrieved at his departure shouldn't detract from seeing this. The move had some downside risks for Carberry but so far he has avoided them.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby Oldschool » January 31st, 2019, 11:23 am

wixfjord wrote:
Oldschool wrote:let's look at the reality.


Oldschool wrote:What has happened to Joey is like the children's hospital, one big f^ck up.



So let's look at the reality then.

So far Joey's move has gone swimmingly for all involved except Leinster.

He has played at 10 far more than he would've with us, has kicked well, gotten MOTM in a big Euro game and been nominated for a big individual award.

I would say that so far, the reality is it has been a good move.

Joey's move has gone swimmingly, don't think so!
I'm surprised wixfjord, that you haven't figured out yet that your version of reality and mine rarely align.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby wixfjord » January 31st, 2019, 11:56 am

Oldschool wrote:
wixfjord wrote:
Oldschool wrote:let's look at the reality.


Oldschool wrote:What has happened to Joey is like the children's hospital, one big f^ck up.



So let's look at the reality then.

So far Joey's move has gone swimmingly for all involved except Leinster.

He has played at 10 far more than he would've with us, has kicked well, gotten MOTM in a big Euro game and been nominated for a big individual award.

I would say that so far, the reality is it has been a good move.

Joey's move has gone swimmingly, don't think so!
I'm surprised wixfjord, that you haven't figured out yet that your version of reality and mine rarely align.


Ah right, so in what way has it not gone well OS?
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby Oldschool » January 31st, 2019, 12:17 pm

wixfjord wrote:Ah right, so in what way has it not gone well OS?

Recent game against Castres.
Recent game against Exeter.
Both games are recent and, for different reasons, were not good ones from Joey's perspective.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby wixfjord » January 31st, 2019, 12:34 pm

Oldschool wrote:
wixfjord wrote:Ah right, so in what way has it not gone well OS?

Recent game against Castres.
Recent game against Exeter.
Both games are recent and, for different reasons, were not good ones from Joey's perspective.


Eh? So a poor performance from Joey in the Castres game and an average performance in the Exeter game indicate the whole move has been 'one big f^ck up'?

I don't follow that logic!
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby the spoofer » January 31st, 2019, 12:51 pm

wixfjord wrote:
Oldschool wrote:
wixfjord wrote:Ah right, so in what way has it not gone well OS?

Recent game against Castres.
Recent game against Exeter.
Both games are recent and, for different reasons, were not good ones from Joey's perspective.


Eh? So a poor performance from Joey in the Castres game and an average performance in the Exeter game indicate the whole move has been 'one big f^ck up'?

I don't follow that logic!


He was far worse than average against Exeter. He played well against a rabble in Gloucester.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby wixfjord » January 31st, 2019, 1:01 pm

the spoofer wrote:
He was far worse than average against Exeter. He played well against a rabble in Gloucester.


Was he? What were the big glaring issues in his performance?

Kicked well from hand and tee, didn't do much in attack but helped his side win a tight game.

I certainly don't think one game is an indication of the move being a failure.

(Also played well against Exeter in the first game of a pool too...)
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby mildlyinterested » January 31st, 2019, 1:02 pm

for the IRFU it's been a success, they got what they wanted.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby Oldschool » January 31st, 2019, 1:14 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:for the IRFU it's been a success, they got what they wanted.

Actually they've only got half of what they wanted so far.
They wanted him to move but they wanted the move to be a huge success and so far it hasn't been.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby Oldschool » January 31st, 2019, 1:20 pm

wixfjord wrote:
the spoofer wrote:
He was far worse than average against Exeter. He played well against a rabble in Gloucester.


Was he? What were the big glaring issues in his performance?

Kicked well from hand and tee, didn't do much in attack but helped his side win a tight game.

I certainly don't think one game is an indication of the move being a failure.

(Also played well against Exeter in the first game of a pool too...)

Look wixfjord we've all been down this road before.
Nothing we can say to each other, at this point, will change our opinions.
It's all very subjective.
If it makes you feel any better I am a fan of Joey's, don't blame him for moving if that's what he wanted to do and I really hope that time proves me wrong.
But time will only prove me wrong if Munster change the way they want to play the game.
So it's not just about Joey's individual performances it's a lot more complicated than that.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby wixfjord » January 31st, 2019, 2:08 pm

Oldschool wrote:Nothing we can say to each other, at this point, will change our opinions.
It's all very subjective.
If it makes you feel any better I am a fan of Joey's, don't blame him for moving if that's what he wanted to do and I really hope that time proves me wrong.
But time will only prove me wrong if Munster change the way they want to play the game.
So it's not just about Joey's individual performances it's a lot more complicated than that.


See I don't think it is subjective. I think you're trying to make it subjective but the facts are:

He is kicking well
Has put in some big performances against big sides from 10
Has more game time in Europe than he would've had with us at 10
Is closer to Sexton than before
Is playing with the Irish 9 regularly
Has been nominated for EPOTY

To say the move has been 'one big f%~k up' is just not factually correct at the moment. So far, it has been great for Munster, IRFU and Joey.

I'm happy to change my opinion, but pointing to individual poor performances as indicative that the move has gone tits up is just nonsense!
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » January 31st, 2019, 2:18 pm

Have to say I don't see him as being any better as a player. He's got more experience now but don't actually think he's improved and I would find some of his performances slightly concerning. He's shown glimpses of how good he could be, but he did that for us too. I would imagine the hope was that he would show that he could consistently run games and I don't think he's done that at all.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby wixfjord » January 31st, 2019, 2:40 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Have to say I don't see him as being any better as a player. He's got more experience now but don't actually think he's improved and I would find some of his performances slightly concerning. He's shown glimpses of how good he could be, but he did that for us too. I would imagine the hope was that he would show that he could consistently run games and I don't think he's done that at all.


I think he has a long way to go alright, but winning multiple big Euro games from 10 and placekicking really well is more than he has done for us. And of course getting more opportunities to start consistently has to help him improve.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby fourthirtythree » January 31st, 2019, 3:16 pm

His one really good game in Europe was against a team that were being utterly dominated, he hardly got a touch against Exeter. Don't think he's learning much about running an attack down there.

Should have gone to Ulster. They could have used him well. Munster haven't brought a 10 through in 20 years. That's not an accident.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby the spoofer » January 31st, 2019, 3:21 pm

wixfjord wrote:
Oldschool wrote:Nothing we can say to each other, at this point, will change our opinions.
It's all very subjective.
If it makes you feel any better I am a fan of Joey's, don't blame him for moving if that's what he wanted to do and I really hope that time proves me wrong.
But time will only prove me wrong if Munster change the way they want to play the game.
So it's not just about Joey's individual performances it's a lot more complicated than that.


See I don't think it is subjective. I think you're trying to make it subjective but the facts are:

He is kicking well
Has put in some big performances against big sides from 10
Has more game time in Europe than he would've had with us at 10
Is closer to Sexton than before
Is playing with the Irish 9 regularly
Has been nominated for EPOTY And James Ryan wasn't so that invalidates the process.

To say the move has been 'one big f%~k up' is just not factually correct at the moment. So far, it has been great for Munster, IRFU and Joey.

I'm happy to change my opinion, but pointing to individual poor performances as indicative that the move has gone tits up is just nonsense!
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