A whiff of Cordite

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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby backrower8 » February 19th, 2019, 1:42 pm

hugonaut wrote:Deegan is on 667 mins at the moment, fourth in terms of backrows behind Ruddock [848 mins], Conan [699 mins] and van der Flier [696 mins]. He'll pass out the latter two next game out if he plays 23 mins ... and then he'll have the second most minutes of any backrow in Leinster bar the club vice-captain this season. As a 22 year old.

In terms of appearances, he's joint third on 15 with Molony and Reider – although he has played more minutes than either – behind Tracy [19, 10+9], Gibson-Park [16, 10+6] and Porter [16, 3+13].

The idea that he's not getting enough exposure or enough games doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Deegan joined the Academy for the 2016-17 season [source: https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/201617-aca ... announced/ ], so he's way ahead of schedule: he should be in Year 3, and he has already played 36 senior games [17+19/10 tries], including appearances off the bench in a HEC QF and a Pro14 SF.

The contention that he's not playing enough at No8 is a different question. I think we should play him there more often myself. But where else is he going to play No8? Marcel Coetzee just signed a three year deal with Ulster - he's available to play every game of the season for the next three years, in theory. Stander's on a three-year deal until June 2021 [source: https://munsterrugby.ie/2017/12/21/stan ... -contract/ ]. Botha just signed an extension with Munster in December [source: https://munsterrugby.ie/2018/12/04/cont ... r-munster/ ].

So really the only option is Connacht. And that's the only conclusion that the writers of these articles should realistically be arriving at: "We've been singing Paul Boyle's praises, but frankly Deegan is just a better player and would stroll in and take the jersey off him. After all, he's all of 15 weeks older than him and has only played in 19 more games for a team who won the double last season." You take the argument that he should be thinking about leaving Leinster to a logical conclusion, and that's where you end up. That a guy who plays way more often in a better team than a player to whom he's senior by a whopping 3 months should leave to take the younger player's place in a worse team.

But nobody wants to take a p*ss on Paul Boyle [a Leinster born, bred and trained player who already moved, and who has done really well], nobody seems willing to countenance the basic fact that Deegan is playing loads of games for Leinster as a 21/22 year old, and nobody gives Cullen or Lancaster due credit for their selection policies over the last few years that have seen a half dozen players fast-tracked through the academy into senior rugby and into international rugby in a 12 month period [Ringrose, Ryan, Porter, Larmour, Carbery, O'Loughlin]. Sure what the f*ck do they know about player progression?


:happy clapper: :happy clapper: :happy clapper:

Maybe this is all pure space filling stuff in the media which can never have enough stories to run.

One explanation for Max playing across the back-row might be the fact that he is a year further in his development and has the flexibility to make a fist of all 3 positions, so as to allow Doris be eased into his first senior season in the position that he knows best.

I think both Deegan and Doris will be retained for 2019-20. I am most persuaded by the fact that our back-row resources are thinning out and that what we have is largely on Ireland squad duty. We need them both.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby deco » February 19th, 2019, 1:48 pm

johng wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I'd have every Leinster backrower ahead of him.

Well obviously or he'd still be here. My point was they have enough of our back rowers. Including one of our best. Feck giving them more


You have to remember anything that improves Ireland should happen because it improves Ireland because that's the IRFU's policy and the money comes from the Ireland matches and that matters because they own it all and they say so and the provinces are only needed to bring the players through for Ireland.

Sending Deegan to partner with Jordi which would assuredly benefit Ireland has to happen.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby johng » February 19th, 2019, 1:53 pm

Nice one Gerry. :mullet 1:
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby mildlyinterested » February 19th, 2019, 2:01 pm

deco wrote:
johng wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I'd have every Leinster backrower ahead of him.

Well obviously or he'd still be here. My point was they have enough of our back rowers. Including one of our best. Feck giving them more


You have to remember anything that improves Ireland should happen because it improves Ireland because that's the IRFU's policy and the money comes from the Ireland matches and that matters because they own it all and they say so and the provinces are only needed to bring the players through for Ireland.

Sending Deegan to partner with Jordi which would assuredly benefit Ireland has to happen.


Anything that improves Ireland should happen? :?
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby riocard911 » February 19th, 2019, 2:02 pm

Since 2009 - at least - Leinster is the goose that lays the golden eggs for the IRFU. They strangle or kill it at their own peril!!!!
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » February 19th, 2019, 3:14 pm

johng wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I'd have every Leinster backrower ahead of him.

Well obviously or he'd still be here. My point was they have enough of our back rowers. Including one of our best. Feck giving them more


I like that you think my opinion holds that much sway but unfortunately the powers that be don't listen to LRIP from the internet as often as I think they should!

I don't want him to go but I'm just saying that I think there is a natural opening for him and I don't go along with those who point to the number of minutes he's getting and think everything is great. Any journalist discussing a potential departure isn't being OTT or just acting as an IRFU shill, there's merit in it. If I was Bryn Cunningham I'd be telling him that there's a clear path for him up north. This time next season he could potentially have 6 starts in Europe under his belt for Ulster if he did move, whereas here he'll probably require at least one injury just to make the bench. I hope he backs himself to be a starter for us and comes good, but I would imagine that that kind of carrot would be tempting for a guy with such a great pedigree who has watched from afar as his peers like Ryan and Porter won a Grand Slam etc.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby the spoofer » February 19th, 2019, 4:35 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
johng wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I'd have every Leinster backrower ahead of him.

Well obviously or he'd still be here. My point was they have enough of our back rowers. Including one of our best. Feck giving them more


I like that you think my opinion holds that much sway but unfortunately the powers that be don't listen to LRIP from the internet as often as I think they should!

I don't want him to go but I'm just saying that I think there is a natural opening for him and I don't go along with those who point to the number of minutes he's getting and think everything is great. Any journalist discussing a potential departure isn't being OTT or just acting as an IRFU shill, there's merit in it. If I was Bryn Cunningham I'd be telling him that there's a clear path for him up north. This time next season he could potentially have 6 starts in Europe under his belt for Ulster if he did move, whereas here he'll probably require at least one injury just to make the bench. I hope he backs himself to be a starter for us and comes good, but I would imagine that that kind of carrot would be tempting for a guy with such a great pedigree who has watched from afar as his peers like Ryan and Porter won a Grand Slam etc.


Yeah but maybe he likes winning.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby Serb » February 19th, 2019, 4:51 pm

It’s easy to throw around stats to back your agenda.

Deegan has played lots of minutes, everything is grand. Deegan is constantly being played out of position, he needs to go.

Leinster win a lot, Deegan wouldn’t want to be part of a losing outfit. Ulster lose a lot, he improves their back row and gets to be a core contributor to their revival.

The reality is that we don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes; maybe looking across the national depth chart, Deegan favours a move to flanker? Or maybe he’s been coaxed into a role he doesn’t enjoy.

Ultimately, he’s a professional and he’ll do what he can to further his career and maximise his earnings. Playing for Ulster probably puts him in the frame for Ireland honours sooner than staying at Leinster would. Staying at Leinster could stunt his career, especially with another high potential individual occupying what has been his favoured position up until now.

Similar to Carbery, if he goes, he’s doing what he believes is best for himself and his career and all we can do is wish him luck. We all do the same in our careers throughout our lives.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby mildlyinterested » February 19th, 2019, 4:53 pm

There is no indications he wants to leave.

There is plenty of speculation in the media stating he should.

Not for the first time this is happening to a talented young leinster player.

As a leinster fan I think it's a joke.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » February 19th, 2019, 5:27 pm

You post rumours about players leaving all the time. I see far more speculation about moves from you in the rumour mill thread than I do from journalists.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby Oldschool » February 19th, 2019, 6:43 pm

deco wrote:
johng wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I'd have every Leinster backrower ahead of him.

Well obviously or he'd still be here. My point was they have enough of our back rowers. Including one of our best. Feck giving them more


You have to remember anything that improves Ireland should happen because it improves Ireland because that's the IRFU's policy and the money comes from the Ireland matches and that matters because they own it all and they say so and the provinces are only needed to bring the players through for Ireland.

Sending Deegan to partner with Jordi which would assuredly benefit Ireland has to happen.

Giving players the benefit of the best coaching ticket on weekly basis is probably the most beneficial for team Ireland.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby Oldschool » February 19th, 2019, 6:52 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
johng wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I'd have every Leinster backrower ahead of him.

Well obviously or he'd still be here. My point was they have enough of our back rowers. Including one of our best. Feck giving them more


I like that you think my opinion holds that much sway but unfortunately the powers that be don't listen to LRIP from the internet as often as I think they should!

I don't want him to go but I'm just saying that I think there is a natural opening for him and I don't go along with those who point to the number of minutes he's getting and think everything is great. Any journalist discussing a potential departure isn't being OTT or just acting as an IRFU shill, there's merit in it. If I was Bryn Cunningham I'd be telling him that there's a clear path for him up north. This time next season he could potentially have 6 starts in Europe under his belt for Ulster if he did move, whereas here he'll probably require at least one injury just to make the bench. I hope he backs himself to be a starter for us and comes good, but I would imagine that that kind of carrot would be tempting for a guy with such a great pedigree who has watched from afar as his peers like Ryan and Porter won a Grand Slam etc.

SOB leaving has to have had an influence on everyone's thinking.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby fourthirtythree » February 19th, 2019, 8:29 pm

SOB leaving opens up a cosy 5 or 6 starts to share around...
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby Oldschool » February 20th, 2019, 12:28 pm

fourthirtythree wrote:SOB leaving opens up a cosy 5 or 6 starts to share around...

It's cumulative.
If you have 10 games now you're up to 12/13/14 depending on circumstances.
If we aren't allowed re-sign Fardy then that figure could go up a bit more.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby Ruckedtobits » February 21st, 2019, 11:39 pm

Fardy should stay.

But really only posting to get items to the top of the list on this rugby forum!!
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby Dexter » February 27th, 2019, 10:14 am

D Kelly in the Indo thinks that South Africa are "aside from the All Blacks, the only country to win more than one World Cup."
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby OTT » February 27th, 2019, 10:16 am

Dexter wrote:D Kelly in the Indo thinks that South Africa are "aside from the All Blacks, the only country to win more than one World Cup."


With so many past winners it's very confusing.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby johng » February 27th, 2019, 12:10 pm

He will have to Tri(Nations) harder
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby RoboProp » March 5th, 2019, 8:26 pm

Wardy's latest piece of detritus posing as a newspaper article, is IMO a thinly veiled attempt to undermine Sexton. As soon as Joey Carbery put pen to ink and said he was off Ward has been needling away with sarky mean girls lite comments about Sexto, and big upping Joey.
Does he see in Joey and Johnny a modern facsimile of himself and Campbell?
Ward and Carbery certainly have their style of play and turn coat ways in common.
I had to laugh at the comparison Ward made to Johnny and Roy Keane, he used this as a chance to sing Keane's praises and have another dig at Johnny. He's right though Johnny never walked out on his national team in their hour or need and Keane never won sh!t worth a damn with Ireland.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Postby fourthirtythree » March 5th, 2019, 9:13 pm

Are people still fanboying Keane? Wow. Amazing that all the evidence doesn't add up in their silly little heads. I particularly enjoyed the unprofessional drunkard who admitted he played injured to the detriment of his team and his own performance giving out about modern players, who are real pros, not playing when they are injured. And thinking shouting at them and insulting was going to help.

He's an idiot as well as a deranged narcissistic thug.

Johnno is completely unlike him. For all the "narky" snipes he gets he's a gracious interviewee and appears to actually like people rather than just dogs and himself.
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