Rumour Mill

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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Peg Leg » April 6th, 2018, 5:46 pm

artaneboy wrote:
ChrisUppy wrote:
neiliog93 wrote:I don't think it's necessarily bigoted though. Is he bigoted because he thinks that heterosexuals who sleep around will go to Hell unless they repent? (also part of conservative Christian theology on sexuality). Maybe he's a bit dumb, or old-fashioned, or whatever. I seriously doubt he hates gay people. The belief is more that any sex outside of heterosexual marriage is a sin, and sins that are not repented for lead to Hell.

I don't think Leinster have a duty to cultivate a 'progressive' environment. They shouldn't be endorsing any political stance. If a guy shows up, trains well, plays well, and is professional, that's all you can ask for. Leave political, social and religious views out of it. Sanctioning people for disagreeing with the 'modern' consensus just strengthens the (often absurd) conservative narrative that they are increasingly persecuted.


Funny, I don't recall any word from him on heteros who sleep around.

Nor have I heard him calling out those with tattoos. Nor have have I heard him warning of a rich man standing less of a chance of entering heaven than a camel from passing through the eye of a needle (that one may be a bit inconvenient to a well payed pro athelete like himself). Nor extolling the biblical right to own slaves (that one comes from the same book as the verses on homosexuality btw.).

Yet he finds the time to take a stance previously against gay marriage and now warning they are destined for hell. I wonder why that issue sticks out to him particularly? It couldn't be because he is bigoted I guess... I'm sure he'll get around to the rest...


Yeah- most of what you say there is probably true- if a bit irrelevant to the point. The issue is not his consistency in following the imagined dictates of his faith- or even his religion at all- as there are- and have been a number of very religious players who have been members of Ulster- and other clubs too, no doubt.

The issue is whether we should shun or bar players because we don't like their views on such issues. I'm not personally religious and I find his views both offensive and silly- but is that a reason bar him? Where does this stop then? So (no names- no pack drill) if some of the well known names who do play and have played for Ulster recently hold similar views- or are 'suspected'- by virtue of their expressed faith, of having similar views, should we demand they make a statement on the issue? Take it a step further- should every player be asked to state their beliefs and prejudices on these issues? It's a rabbit hole- and the only half way fair way is to demand that players don't get into it at all.

Oh- and BTW, the idea that Falou is the wrong player for Ulster is total rubbish. You could argue they need another four or five more players, and he'd be too costly on that basis- but, 'not right'... c'mon!
The answer to "where does it stop" is always, somewhere.
You're being deliberately obtuse, the reason for the ire in this case is his vocalisation of his opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own views, preaching them is where I take issue. So no, we don't need a McCarthy type court for signings, we need to avoid vocal extremists.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby OTT » April 6th, 2018, 6:05 pm

Peg Leg wrote:Also, swap Zebo and Folau as Munster FB last weekend and I know what side of the 50/50 penalty try decision Nige is leaning.



Folau would have got to the ball first, half the problem solved :lol:
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Oldschoolsocks » April 6th, 2018, 6:06 pm

Oldschool wrote:One of the best extracts from the bible.
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"


My persona l fave bible quote:


This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, places and incidents either are products of the author’s imagination or are used fictitiously. Any resemblance to actual events or locales or persons, living or dead, is entirely coincidental.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Oldschoolsocks » April 6th, 2018, 6:07 pm

artaneboy wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:He's a homophobe, a hypocrite and a bigot.


Why a hypocrite? And are we making that a ground for barring now too? If we do, there will be very few that can pass through that 'eye of a needle'...



Cherry picking of which strictures from Leviticus to follow
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby artaneboy » April 6th, 2018, 6:31 pm

Peg Leg wrote:
artaneboy wrote:
ChrisUppy wrote:[quote="neiliog93"]I don't think it's necessarily bigoted though. Is he bigoted because he thinks that heterosexuals who sleep around will go to Hell unless they repent? (also part of conservative Christian theology on sexuality). Maybe he's a bit dumb, or old-fashioned, or whatever. I seriously doubt he hates gay people. The belief is more that any sex outside of heterosexual marriage is a sin, and sins that are not repented for lead to Hell.

I don't think Leinster have a duty to cultivate a 'progressive' environment. They shouldn't be endorsing any political stance. If a guy shows up, trains well, plays well, and is professional, that's all you can ask for. Leave political, social and religious views out of it. Sanctioning people for disagreeing with the 'modern' consensus just strengthens the (often absurd) conservative narrative that they are increasingly persecuted.


Funny, I don't recall any word from him on heteros who sleep around.

Nor have I heard him calling out those with tattoos. Nor have have I heard him warning of a rich man standing less of a chance of entering heaven than a camel from passing through the eye of a needle (that one may be a bit inconvenient to a well payed pro athelete like himself). Nor extolling the biblical right to own slaves (that one comes from the same book as the verses on homosexuality btw.).

Yet he finds the time to take a stance previously against gay marriage and now warning they are destined for hell. I wonder why that issue sticks out to him particularly? It couldn't be because he is bigoted I guess... I'm sure he'll get around to the rest...


Yeah- most of what you say there is probably true- if a bit irrelevant to the point. The issue is not his consistency in following the imagined dictates of his faith- or even his religion at all- as there are- and have been a number of very religious players who have been members of Ulster- and other clubs too, no doubt.

The issue is whether we should shun or bar players because we don't like their views on such issues. I'm not personally religious and I find his views both offensive and silly- but is that a reason bar him? Where does this stop then? So (no names- no pack drill) if some of the well known names who do play and have played for Ulster recently hold similar views- or are 'suspected'- by virtue of their expressed faith, of having similar views, should we demand they make a statement on the issue? Take it a step further- should every player be asked to state their beliefs and prejudices on these issues? It's a rabbit hole- and the only half way fair way is to demand that players don't get into it at all.

Oh- and BTW, the idea that Falou is the wrong player for Ulster is total rubbish. You could argue they need another four or five more players, and he'd be too costly on that basis- but, 'not right'... c'mon!
The answer to "where does it stop" is always, somewhere.
You're being deliberately obtuse, the reason for the ire in this case is his vocalisation of his opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own views, preaching them is where I take issue. So no, we don't need a McCarthy type court for signings, we need to avoid vocal extremists.[/quote]

So, I’m obtuse- okay. Humour my deliberate obstruction abs tell me, where is the “somewhere” where we stop?

BTW- you might remember I stated (at least twice in separate posts) that players should be asked/ required not to comment at all on these issues. But if there’s no law broken -(a la ‘hate speech’) or contractual obligations breached, then there’s little to be done.


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Rumour Mill

Postby artaneboy » April 6th, 2018, 6:33 pm

OTT wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:Also, swap Zebo and Folau as Munster FB last weekend and I know what side of the 50/50 penalty try decision Nige is leaning.



Folau would have got to the ball first, half the problem solved


I’m sure Nigel has refereed Falou previously- and did so in a professional manner- as I’d expect of him. Ridiculous to suggest otherwise.


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Rumour Mill

Postby artaneboy » April 6th, 2018, 6:37 pm

Oldschoolsocks wrote:
artaneboy wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:He's a homophobe, a hypocrite and a bigot.


Why a hypocrite? And are we making that a ground for barring now too? If we do, there will be very few that can pass through that 'eye of a needle'...



Cherry picking of which strictures from Leviticus to follow

Do you even have any idea of what religious tenets Israel Falou adheres to? Is Leviticus (in which there seem to be a lot of experts here), feature much in it? Does he go for the original Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek translations...

No- neither have I- or interest either in his consistency.

Total side issue....


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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby artaneboy » April 6th, 2018, 6:43 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
artaneboy wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:He's a homophobe, a hypocrite and a bigot.


Why a hypocrite? And are we making that a ground for barring now too? If we do, there will be very few that can pass through that 'eye of a needle'...


He has tattoos, he shaves the side of his head, he shaves his beard. And I'd say if I went through all the levitical laws, never mind the 613 commandments, I'd find a few more breaches. But he only seems to care about one.

I never said he should be barred for being a hypocrite btw, just that he was one.


We can probably agree on that. He most likely is/ like 99% of the posters here- a hypocrite.

But all we are doing there is name calling. Not much sense in that.


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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby paddyor » April 6th, 2018, 9:48 pm

artaneboy wrote:Do you even have any idea of what religious tenets Israel Falou adheres to? Is Leviticus (in which there seem to be a lot of experts here), feature much in it? Does he go for the original Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek translations...

No- neither have I- or interest either in his consistency.

Total side issue....


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Well if he's denoucing homosexuality on the basis of his christian faith, the "teaching" comes from Leviticus. The verse "a man shall not lie with another man" is the one Christians cite. Doesn't really get anymore black and white than that. You don't have to be an expert to be familiar with it.

As to the last question about texts....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_lioning
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Peg Leg » April 6th, 2018, 11:35 pm

paddyor wrote:
artaneboy wrote:Do you even have any idea of what religious tenets Israel Falou adheres to? Is Leviticus (in which there seem to be a lot of experts here), feature much in it? Does he go for the original Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek translations...

No- neither have I- or interest either in his consistency.

Total side issue....


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Well if he's denoucing homosexuality on the basis of his christian faith, the "teaching" comes from Leviticus. The verse "a man shall not lie with another man" is the one Christians cite. Doesn't really get anymore black and white than that. You don't have to be an expert to be familiar with it.

As to the last question about texts....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_lioning
Closer to a Gish Gallop

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby artaneboy » April 6th, 2018, 11:38 pm

paddyor wrote:
artaneboy wrote:Do you even have any idea of what religious tenets Israel Falou adheres to? Is Leviticus (in which there seem to be a lot of experts here), feature much in it? Does he go for the original Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek translations...

No- neither have I- or interest either in his consistency.

Total side issue....


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Well if he's denoucing homosexuality on the basis of his christian faith, the "teaching" comes from Leviticus. The verse "a man shall not lie with another man" is the one Christians cite. Doesn't really get anymore black and white than that. You don't have to be an expert to be familiar with it.

As to the last question about texts....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_lioning


Jaysus man- no one cares what Wikipedia page you’ve found that indicates he’s a hypocrite. He’s not been charged with inconsistency- but bigotry! That’s the least of his accusations.

The question remains whether it should influence his being signed by a club. The rest- Leviticus, et all is flannel.

But to be fair, I’m more impressed by your Bible studies than by your legal advice...




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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby paddyor » April 6th, 2018, 11:55 pm

Image
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Oldschoolsocks » April 7th, 2018, 8:24 am

artaneboy wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:He's a homophobe, a hypocrite and a bigot.


Why a hypocrite? And are we making that a ground for barring now too? If we do, there will be very few that can pass through that 'eye of a needle'...


artaneboy wrote:
Oldschoolsocks wrote:Cherry picking of which strictures from Leviticus to follow

Do you even have any idea of what religious tenets Israel Falou adheres to? Is Leviticus (in which there seem to be a lot of experts here), feature much in it? Does he go for the original Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek translations...

No- neither have I- or interest either in his consistency.

Total side issue....


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fairynuff - from posts after this we've all agreed that he's a hypoctrite then - brilliant!!

I can also see that you actually have no interest in being presented with the passages that outline the inconsistency of his beliefs, so I'm not going to bother answering you on that either.

as for me, would I want an outspoken homophobe on my team? - probably not, but I'm pretty consistent about it.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby blockhead » April 8th, 2018, 7:03 pm

blockhead wrote:Ulster are favourites to sign Folau for next season apparently.


Yikes!
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Fireworks » April 9th, 2018, 9:24 am

blockhead wrote:
blockhead wrote:Ulster are favourites to sign Folau for next season apparently.


Yikes!
Sure I was only havin a larf.


You need to use your powers more wisely. A few words in jest from you have resulted in pages of posts. Is there a more deserving target of these powers.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby rooster » April 9th, 2018, 9:44 am

Fireworks wrote:
blockhead wrote:
blockhead wrote:Ulster are favourites to sign Folau for next season apparently.


Yikes!
Sure I was only havin a larf.


You need to use your powers more wisely. A few words in jest from you have resulted in pages of posts. Is there a more deserving target of these powers.
Well another rumour is that the NZ ladies coach is on our shortlist for head coach, I hope this was someone having a laugh as well.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby mildlyinterested » April 9th, 2018, 10:21 am

I wonder when they will announced contracts...
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby kermischocolate » April 9th, 2018, 1:50 pm

rooster wrote:Well another rumour is that the NZ ladies coach is on our shortlist for head coach, I hope this was someone having a laugh as well.


Why?
They're one of the most consistently high performing teams in world rugby. You could do far worse.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » April 9th, 2018, 1:52 pm

The cynic in me says it would be a good PR move as well.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby FLIP » April 9th, 2018, 3:50 pm

Whoosh
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