Rumour Mill

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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Jonny tight lips » February 14th, 2019, 10:12 pm

artaneboy wrote:
Jonny tight lips wrote:
Joe wasn't the best coach Leinster have ever had over a desire to pay back a club that gave him a chance or any sense of loyalty...

He was the best coach Leinster have ever had because he's an excellent coach, he created the correct culture using excellent coaching methods and enabling the players at his disposal to be what he required them to be. Aside from being technically excellent and extremely dedicated.

This is the exact same thing he is doing with Ireland. The circumstances are different as the stakes are higher.

The man is a professional who has duties and responsibilities for the national team to succeed and will do so how he best sees fit.

We don't have to like it - but going down the "remember where you came from" stuff is just pathetic


Good thing Joe didn't "remember when he came from" when Leinster played Clermont. No loyalty shown to his former club.


It’s not equivalent, he competed against his former team. Moving Leinster players to other provinces when he’s Ireland manager is completely different. If he was the Ulster manager and he competed against Leinster people wouldn’t care.[/quote]

This is just getting ridiculous! I’m reading it with disbelief that this type of reasoning still gets declared seriously here.

You can dislike the fact that professional rugby players, clubs and unions, will make choices that disadvantage your team- but to theorise that this constitutes disloyalty or malice (on the part of unions and management) is just incoherent on so many levels.

For a start Joe does not just owe us sweet FA- he actually owes it to Ireland to do wherever he thinks is best for the country’s team.

As to the IRFU wanting Leinster to fail? Well, you could make a reasonable case that the Union wants to even up the standard and therefore competition between provinces. To my view that’s entirely to be expected from a national union. But that’s also a clearly different thing from wishing Leinster ill.

I won’t get into the decrying of the freedom of players to optimise their playing and earning potential. The inferences of disloyal there are just beyond silly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

There is no need to insult people who think differently to you, we are all fans of the same province who want it to be successful.

I just dont agree that because sport is professional that means players can not show loyalty to a club or province. There is evidence of this on all professional sport by professional players. Back when you could easily play club rugby in France and internationally for Ireland Drico stayed with Leinster out of loyalty, Aun why jones could of gone many places throughout his career but stated with ospreys. Steve bull was a quality player who never left wolves. So it’s not bizarre that players show loyalty to the team that gave them their Careers after all they weren’t born great players and their education isint free. If there are loyal players then the opposite must exsist.

That said even if it is all just about professionalism that dosent explain Mr. Carburys disregarding his professional contract.

I never said the IRFU wanted Leinster to Fail but there policies are hurting our chances of success so it reasonable to express displeasure. Why is it expected for them to even up the provinces, Irish provincial rugby is a success because of the connection of players and fans and the rivalries which are being diminished by this player movement. We should be helping who we want to beat? Look at the welsh unions attendances and their success... that’s what you get from a disconnection between fans and club/province/ region

Finally as I said many times, if the IRFU give developed players to the other provinces it de incentivizes them to fix their problems in bringing through talent. One ulster player in the under 20 six nations after 2 games and he only made the bench.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby arsebiscuits1 » February 15th, 2019, 10:53 am

Jonny tight lips wrote:
There is no need to insult people who think differently to you, we are all fans of the same province who want it to be successful.

I just dont agree that because sport is professional that means players can not show loyalty to a club or province. There is evidence of this on all professional sport by professional players. Back when you could easily play club rugby in France and internationally for Ireland Drico stayed with Leinster out of loyalty, Aun why jones could of gone many places throughout his career but stated with ospreys. Steve bull was a quality player who never left wolves. So it’s not bizarre that players show loyalty to the team that gave them their Careers after all they weren’t born great players and their education isint free. If there are loyal players then the opposite must exsist.

That said even if it is all just about professionalism that dosent explain Mr. Carburys disregarding his professional contract.

I never said the IRFU wanted Leinster to Fail but there policies are hurting our chances of success so it reasonable to express displeasure. Why is it expected for them to even up the provinces, Irish provincial rugby is a success because of the connection of players and fans and the rivalries which are being diminished by this player movement. We should be helping who we want to beat? Look at the welsh unions attendances and their success... that’s what you get from a disconnection between fans and club/province/ region

Finally as I said many times, if the IRFU give developed players to the other provinces it de incentivizes them to fix their problems in bringing through talent. One ulster player in the under 20 six nations after 2 games and he only made the bench.


Are you for real? You're not getting insulted anywhere and could do with being careful about those accusations.

Artaneboy said nothing out of line. It was all very reasoned and my "bollox" statement was directed at the concept not the individual. Don't go playing victim here.

You speak of BOD and AWJ like they weren't the highest paid players in the country... sure loyalty played a small part. But let's not be naive and pretend they were on the breadline here while wondering what could have been over in the South of France. These boys were earning up there with the highest earners of the game at their peak all the while being fairly well managed by their Unions. It's not a coincidence both of them managed to play into their mid 30s.

I've been on this forum for a few years. I've been on a few forums for a few years. And this has to be the hardest I've seen someone try and be outraged by fictional issues
He's gotten awfully fond of that brick
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Jonny tight lips » February 15th, 2019, 12:05 pm

Good morning, Nobody is playing a victim but calling people’s ideas pathetic can be a bit insulting. I’m obviously not making a big deal out or making accusations. Don’t go making yourself or anybody else a victim of false accusations when that’s not what’s happening here.

I’m not suggesting anything outrageous, just that sportsmen can show loyalty and there are many more example other than the three I stated above. Also that if it’s just all professional players should respect their contracts. I get you disagree and accept your probably not gonna change your mind at this stage.

Thanks for sharing your previous internet fourm experiences but your mistaken as I’m not outraged, I’m not even annoyed, I hope you are the same. Have a great weekend man. (That is said with the fullest sincerity)
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby arsebiscuits1 » February 15th, 2019, 12:13 pm

Jonny tight lips wrote:Good morning, Nobody is playing a victim but calling people’s ideas pathetic can be a bit insulting. I’m obviously not making a big deal out or making accusations. Don’t go making yourself or anybody else a victim of false accusations when that’s not what’s happening here.

I’m not suggesting anything outrageous, just that sportsmen can show loyalty and there are many more example other than the three I stated above. Also that if it’s just all professional players should respect their contracts. I get you disagree and accept your probably not gonna change your mind at this stage.

Thanks for sharing your previous internet fourm experiences but your mistaken as I’m not outraged, I’m not even annoyed, I hope you are the same. Have a great weekend man. (That is said with the fullest sincerity)


I'm happy to park this. It's clear we see differently. Right back at you
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby johng » February 15th, 2019, 1:33 pm

I think Johnny the lips is conducting himself admirably. I may not agree with all he says but he makes some good points and makes them well.
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Rumour Mill

Postby artaneboy » February 15th, 2019, 2:42 pm

Jonny tight lips wrote:Good morning, Nobody is playing a victim but calling people’s ideas pathetic can be a bit insulting. I’m obviously not making a big deal out or making accusations. Don’t go making yourself or anybody else a victim of false accusations when that’s not what’s happening here.

I’m not suggesting anything outrageous, just that sportsmen can show loyalty and there are many more example other than the three I stated above. Also that if it’s just all professional players should respect their contracts. I get you disagree and accept your probably not gonna change your mind at this stage.

Thanks for sharing your previous internet fourm experiences but your mistaken as I’m not outraged, I’m not even annoyed, I hope you are the same. Have a great weekend man. (That is said with the fullest sincerity)


Yes, I suppose “calling people’s ideas pathetic can be a bit insulting”. But (aside from the fact that ‘ridiculous’ was the term I actually used) I’d suggest that accusations of disloyalty, opportunism and bad faith on people doing their jobs well- and without any rationale to support it, are even more insulting. But no matter, we’ve discussed it and I’m done on it.


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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby nopeare » February 16th, 2019, 4:58 pm

johng wrote:I think Johnny the lips is conducting himself admirably. I may not agree with all he says but he makes some good points and makes them well.


I’d agree with a lot he says, before carberry and arguably Conway players were mainly fringe players moving or players who were abroad first. There also wasn’t the same level of pressure or interference to my knowledge. I wonder would the same be done for wycherley to move here if we wanted him (highly doubt it)

Also the level of Leinster players in the other systems is a joke now, they nearly use the trips to the rds as a shopping trip.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Peg Leg » February 17th, 2019, 1:00 am

On the other hand isn't it about time Leinster started producing?
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Oldschool » February 17th, 2019, 5:21 pm

Peg Leg wrote:On the other hand isn't it about time Leinster started producing?

It's about time we exported a few fake stars(duds for the uninitiated), label them "future internationals" and marked Lexit.
All we need then is one good performance from them and away they go.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby mildlyinterested » February 27th, 2019, 6:26 am

mildlyinterested
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby tingman » February 27th, 2019, 6:50 am

This sh!t is really starting to piss me off.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Jonny tight lips » February 27th, 2019, 7:01 am

mildlyinterested wrote:Jack McGrath to Ulster?

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/le ... 59685.html


“while Leinster also have a host of ex-players on the books of Connacht and Munster.” I guesss Cronin qualifies as both. Another professional contract not worth the paper it’s written on.
Last edited by Jonny tight lips on February 27th, 2019, 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby sunshiner1 » February 27th, 2019, 7:03 am

by mildlyinterested

Jack McGrath to Ulster?

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/le ... 59685.html


Would be a massive coup for Ulster if true but can't see it happening especially after them announcing the signing of the SA Prop yesterday.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby hugonaut » February 27th, 2019, 7:49 am

mildlyinterested wrote:Jack McGrath to Ulster?

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/le ... 59685.html


Seems like it's very close to a done deal. Quite surprised, would have thought that Jack was a real Leinster man through and through and would play his whole career here.

I'm a big fan of his. He's a very good player and a hard-working, unassuming guy. From my perspective though, it's not Leinster's selection policy that's the problem. When he has been the best loosehead in Leinster over the last five years, he has got the nod ... but he has had two injuries [knee and hip] and one surgery this season and his form and fitness isn't good. He has lost his place in the Irish squad to Kilcoyne, and while it pains me a little to say it, it's deserved. Kilcoyne is playing great stuff and at the peak of his game, while Jack isn't anywhere near his best.

Jack started for Ireland in 6N 2017, started Leinster's knock-outs against Wasps, Clermont and Scarlets that season and played with the Lions that summer. That tour seemed to take a big toll on him, Cian Healy had a massive resurgence in form in the second half of 2017 and Jack hasn't got back to the same level of rugby that he was playing in 2016-17. He has picked up more injuries over the last season and a half than I can recall him having in the previous six seasons. Healy went through a similar dip in his career and came out the other side.

Dan McFarland is picking lads week in, week out up in Ulster – Treadwell has played 21 games [16+5] already this season – and I think it's very plausible that Jack wants to play more games, and start all the big ones. But there's always the factor that if you want to get yourself back into international contention, you have to actually play better than the incumbent. I'm not sure if changing teams can help you out of a slump in form.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby the spoofer » February 27th, 2019, 8:38 am

There are no provinces any more. We should start calling them franchises.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby mildlyinterested » February 27th, 2019, 8:40 am

the spoofer wrote:There are no provinces any more. We should start calling them franchises.


As I said when Carbery happened, it was only the beginning.

Contracts mean nothing and provincial loyalty is being undermined constantly.

How long until similar happens with Porter?
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby johng » February 27th, 2019, 9:00 am

It's a pro game and I have no issue with Jack McGrath doing what's best for his career. Great for Ireland too. But don't ask me to be happy about it as a Leinster fan. Hopefully Byrne and Dooley are going to benefit.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby the spoofer » February 27th, 2019, 9:09 am

You’d wonder are IRFU worried that Leinster are getting too big. All the talk about how the IRFU fund the pro game. I’d heard that Leinster return a very healthy surplus.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby mildlyinterested » February 27th, 2019, 9:12 am

the spoofer wrote:You’d wonder are IRFU worried that Leinster are getting too big. All the talk about how the IRFU fund the pro game. I’d heard that Leinster return a very healthy surplus.


of course they think that, leinster being the dominant province over the other three isn't a good thing for the IRFU.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby wixfjord » February 27th, 2019, 10:05 am

This would be a shame if it came to pass. Can definitely see why Jack wants to move though.

He's in a bit of a funk and would be guaranteed #1 in Ulster. They're building a nice pack backboned by Leinster men.

There's a line in ROC's piece that I don't really get:

It is understood that McGrath and the IRFU have been frustrated with his lack of starting opportunities at Leinster


If this is Jack's line of thinking, then surely he should be looking inward instead of complaining about his lack of starts?
He has been injured and in poor form, and according to Lancaster in poor physical condition too.
Some of the games he has started he has been poor in too.
E Byrne, Healy and Dooley have all played better than him and Byrne in particular deserves his shot.
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