Rumour Mill

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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby johng » February 27th, 2019, 10:09 am

According to the article it was all Jack's idea. But we all see things according to our inbuilt view of the world. People who want to believe in "the big bad IRFU hate Leinster" (And to be fair few of us know to what extent that is true) Will just say "Yeah right. It was his idea :roll: "
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby mildlyinterested » February 27th, 2019, 10:15 am

Byrne is certainly outplaying him at the moment.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby the spoofer » February 27th, 2019, 10:18 am

johng wrote:According to the article it was all Jack's idea. But we all see things according to our inbuilt view of the world. People who want to believe in "the big bad IRFU hate Leinster" (And to be fair few of us know to what extent that is true) Will just say "Yeah right. It was his idea :roll: "


I wish I was as comfortable as you are with this. Ed Byrne is a decent player. Jack McGrath on form is in the top three in the world. He has a good 5 years left at the top whereas our first choice will be 32 by start of next season.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby ChrisUppy » February 27th, 2019, 10:51 am

Even if it is his idea to leave, the idea that our top players can bounce out mid contract because they are unhappy about their short term place in the pecking order doesn't sit well with me. If you slip down the pecking order whatever happened to battling for your place back? Jack is good enough to be a starter if his form is right - so get it right. Leinster's setup will give him plenty of opportunities (minutes) to do so even if he is nominally 3rd choice, and form gets rewarded - that's how Ed Byrne got ahead of him in the first place. Is it an ego thing?

If you're truly unhappy with the setup then wait until the end of a contract. I guess I'm extra disapointed because I saw him as one of the Leinster through and through types and had him pegged as a potential future club captain for a while. If there's an erosion of desire to play for Leinster in the squad, it will cost us in the long run.
Last edited by ChrisUppy on February 27th, 2019, 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby mildlyinterested » February 27th, 2019, 10:53 am

ChrisUppy wrote:Even if it is his idea to leave, the idea that our top players can bounce out mid contract because they are unhappy about gametime doesn't sit well with me. If you slip down the pecking order whatever happened to battling for your place back? Jack is good enough to be a starter if his form is right - so get it right. Leinster's setup will give him plenty of opportunities (minutes) to do so even if he is nominally 3rd choice, and form gets rewarded - that's how Ed Byrne got ahead of him in the first place.

If you're truly unhappy with the setup then wait until the end of a contract. I guess I'm extra disapointed because I saw him as one of the Leinster through and through types and had him pegged as a potential future club captain for a while. If there's an erosion of desire to play for Leinster in the squad, it will cost us in the long run.


When the IRFU are consistently encouraging players to leave the province so to enhance their irish chances of course there will be an erosion in loyalty.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby ChrisUppy » February 27th, 2019, 10:56 am

mildlyinterested wrote:
ChrisUppy wrote:Even if it is his idea to leave, the idea that our top players can bounce out mid contract because they are unhappy about gametime doesn't sit well with me. If you slip down the pecking order whatever happened to battling for your place back? Jack is good enough to be a starter if his form is right - so get it right. Leinster's setup will give him plenty of opportunities (minutes) to do so even if he is nominally 3rd choice, and form gets rewarded - that's how Ed Byrne got ahead of him in the first place.

If you're truly unhappy with the setup then wait until the end of a contract. I guess I'm extra disapointed because I saw him as one of the Leinster through and through types and had him pegged as a potential future club captain for a while. If there's an erosion of desire to play for Leinster in the squad, it will cost us in the long run.


When the IRFU are consistently encouraging players to leave the province so to enhance their irish chances of course there will be an erosion in loyalty.


A player is well capable of saying "I want to play for Leinster". Or at least "I want to honour my contract to Leinser". I don't think you can blame the IRFU for this.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Flash Gordon » February 27th, 2019, 10:58 am

mildlyinterested wrote:
ChrisUppy wrote:Even if it is his idea to leave, the idea that our top players can bounce out mid contract because they are unhappy about gametime doesn't sit well with me. If you slip down the pecking order whatever happened to battling for your place back? Jack is good enough to be a starter if his form is right - so get it right. Leinster's setup will give him plenty of opportunities (minutes) to do so even if he is nominally 3rd choice, and form gets rewarded - that's how Ed Byrne got ahead of him in the first place.

If you're truly unhappy with the setup then wait until the end of a contract. I guess I'm extra disapointed because I saw him as one of the Leinster through and through types and had him pegged as a potential future club captain for a while. If there's an erosion of desire to play for Leinster in the squad, it will cost us in the long run.


When the IRFU are consistently encouraging players to leave the province so to enhance their irish chances of course there will be an erosion in loyalty.


This is a bit of a slippery slope. Not only are we losing guys who are or could be decent squad players but now we're losing game changers and established internationals. The other things that the likes of Jack, SOB or Jordi have is experience. All well and good kids coming through but when you're 2 points down in a European came with 5 minutes to go you have to dig deep into what you know.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby johng » February 27th, 2019, 11:01 am

the spoofer wrote:
johng wrote:According to the article it was all Jack's idea. But we all see things according to our inbuilt view of the world. People who want to believe in "the big bad IRFU hate Leinster" (And to be fair few of us know to what extent that is true) Will just say "Yeah right. It was his idea :roll: "


I wish I was as comfortable as you are with this. Ed Byrne is a decent player. Jack McGrath on form is in the top three in the world. He has a good 5 years left at the top whereas our first choice will be 32 by start of next season.

I'm not comfortable with it at all. Nothing in it for Leinster.
Rather he went there than London Irish or Toulon but being happy with it would be an insult to Jack Mc.

Lets see if it gets confirmed
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby mildlyinterested » February 27th, 2019, 11:12 am

Flash Gordon wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:
ChrisUppy wrote:Even if it is his idea to leave, the idea that our top players can bounce out mid contract because they are unhappy about gametime doesn't sit well with me. If you slip down the pecking order whatever happened to battling for your place back? Jack is good enough to be a starter if his form is right - so get it right. Leinster's setup will give him plenty of opportunities (minutes) to do so even if he is nominally 3rd choice, and form gets rewarded - that's how Ed Byrne got ahead of him in the first place.

If you're truly unhappy with the setup then wait until the end of a contract. I guess I'm extra disapointed because I saw him as one of the Leinster through and through types and had him pegged as a potential future club captain for a while. If there's an erosion of desire to play for Leinster in the squad, it will cost us in the long run.


When the IRFU are consistently encouraging players to leave the province so to enhance their irish chances of course there will be an erosion in loyalty.


This is a bit of a slippery slope. Not only are we losing guys who are or could be decent squad players but now we're losing game changers and established internationals. The other things that the likes of Jack, SOB or Jordi have is experience. All well and good kids coming through but when you're 2 points down in a European came with 5 minutes to go you have to dig deep into what you know.


IRFU "want a greater spread of talent" aka a weaker leinster, sad to say this was inevitable, only a matter of time before it happens at other positions... TH Prop, Openside, Number 8 etc.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Dave Cahill » February 27th, 2019, 11:13 am

To be honest, I'm surprised that this didn't happen a couple of years ago. Ireland's first and second choice loosehead props in the same province was never ideal from an Ireland perspective. Its a pisser from a Leinster perspective, but it has happened before and it will happen again.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby the spoofer » February 27th, 2019, 11:13 am

ChrisUppy wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:
ChrisUppy wrote:Even if it is his idea to leave, the idea that our top players can bounce out mid contract because they are unhappy about gametime doesn't sit well with me. If you slip down the pecking order whatever happened to battling for your place back? Jack is good enough to be a starter if his form is right - so get it right. Leinster's setup will give him plenty of opportunities (minutes) to do so even if he is nominally 3rd choice, and form gets rewarded - that's how Ed Byrne got ahead of him in the first place.

If you're truly unhappy with the setup then wait until the end of a contract. I guess I'm extra disapointed because I saw him as one of the Leinster through and through types and had him pegged as a potential future club captain for a while. If there's an erosion of desire to play for Leinster in the squad, it will cost us in the long run.


When the IRFU are consistently encouraging players to leave the province so to enhance their irish chances of course there will be an erosion in loyalty.


A player is well capable of saying "I want to play for Leinster". Or at least "I want to honour my contract to Leinser". I don't think you can blame the IRFU for this.


It looks like what happened Ross Byrne might be at the back of players minds when considering their options. "we think you should move to Ulster" "No thanks Joe, I'm getting loads of games with Leinster " "Ok so"
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby the spoofer » February 27th, 2019, 11:15 am

Dave Cahill wrote:To be honest, I'm surprised that this didn't happen a couple of years ago. Ireland's first and second choice loosehead props in the same province was never ideal from an Ireland perspective. Its a pisser from a Leinster perspective, but it has happened before and it will happen again.


With the added benefit of taking Leinster down a peg or two.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Degz » February 27th, 2019, 11:21 am

the spoofer wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:To be honest, I'm surprised that this didn't happen a couple of years ago. Ireland's first and second choice loosehead props in the same province was never ideal from an Ireland perspective. Its a pisser from a Leinster perspective, but it has happened before and it will happen again.


With the added benefit of taking Leinster down a peg or two.


Jesus, you sound like a Limerick man in the 80s.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby mildlyinterested » February 27th, 2019, 11:22 am

Leinster are a talent development vehicle for Ireland and the other provinces, success is a secondary priority for the IRFU.

Hopefully we get our 5th start this year, as we will continue to be gutted of talent as the years go by.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby mildlyinterested » February 27th, 2019, 11:32 am

Jack McGrath(LH Prop) -> Ulster
Sean O'Brien(Backrow) -> London Irish
Jordi Murphy(Backrow) -> Ulster
Nick McCarthy(Scrumhalf) -> Munster
Joey Carbery(Outhalf-Fullback) -> Munster
Noel Reid(Centre-Outhalf) -> Leicester
Isa Nacewa(Centre-Wing) -> retired

How many more will leinster lose from the double winning squad?
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Dave Cahill » February 27th, 2019, 11:35 am

mildlyinterested wrote:Leinster are a talent development vehicle for Ireland and the other provinces, success is a secondary priority for the IRFU.



"Provincial success is a secondary priority for the IRFU" is a more accurate way of putting it.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby CiaranIrl » February 27th, 2019, 11:48 am

Jonny tight lips wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:Jack McGrath to Ulster?

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/le ... 59685.html


“while Leinster also have a host of ex-players on the books of Connacht and Munster.” I guesss Cronin qualifies as both. Another professional contract not worth the paper it’s written on.


This is an annoying line. We have Cronin & Henshaw. Who else?

Are they talking about the likes of Mick Kearney & Kelleher who are from Leinster in the first place?
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Flash Gordon » February 27th, 2019, 11:55 am

Dave Cahill wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:Leinster are a talent development vehicle for Ireland and the other provinces, success is a secondary priority for the IRFU.



"Provincial success is a secondary priority for the IRFU" is a more accurate way of putting it.


You can have it both though as Munster, Leinster and Ireland have proven. Spreading the resources more evenly is good for game time for Ireland but it severaly weakens the ability of an Irish team to win the champions cup and the experience that brings. There's a lot of taking fans for granted happening here, derbies are more frequently played without first string players, the Pro 14 has become extremely uncompetitive despite the fact that we rarely play our first team and our players are often not allowed to play for much of the first half of the season. In my opinion this attitude is getting worse and fans and sponsors will note that.

You really can't underestimate the impact having vibrant and successful provincial teams has on the game overall. It's positive for Ireland and it recruits people into the game - if you want t owatch Ireland chances are you won't able to. If you don't watch your province or come through a club you're more likely to follow soccer or GAA.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby mildlyinterested » February 27th, 2019, 12:00 pm

CiaranIrl wrote:
Jonny tight lips wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:Jack McGrath to Ulster?

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/le ... 59685.html


“while Leinster also have a host of ex-players on the books of Connacht and Munster.” I guesss Cronin qualifies as both. Another professional contract not worth the paper it’s written on.


This is an annoying line. We have Cronin & Henshaw. Who else?

Are they talking about the likes of Mick Kearney & Kelleher who are from Leinster in the first place?


Is it not saying that Munster/Connacht have many ex-leinster players on their books?
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby mildlyinterested » February 27th, 2019, 12:02 pm

Flash Gordon wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:Leinster are a talent development vehicle for Ireland and the other provinces, success is a secondary priority for the IRFU.



"Provincial success is a secondary priority for the IRFU" is a more accurate way of putting it.


You can have it both though as Munster, Leinster and Ireland have proven. Spreading the resources more evenly is good for game time for Ireland but it severaly weakens the ability of an Irish team to win the champions cup and the experience that brings. There's a lot of taking fans for granted happening here, derbies are more frequently played without first string players, the Pro 14 has become extremely uncompetitive despite the fact that we rarely play our first team and our players are often not allowed to play for much of the first half of the season. In my opinion this attitude is getting worse and fans and sponsors will note that.

You really can't underestimate the impact having vibrant and successful provincial teams has on the game overall. It's positive for Ireland and it recruits people into the game - if you want t owatch Ireland chances are you won't able to. If you don't watch your province or come through a club you're more likely to follow soccer or GAA.


If Leinster are dominating the rivalries and the other provinces are noncompetitive due to their poor academies and development structures then I guess the IRFU feel the need to act to balance it out. aka weaken leinster to the benefit of the others.
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