Rumour Mill

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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Twist » February 27th, 2019, 12:03 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:To be honest, I'm surprised that this didn't happen a couple of years ago. Ireland's first and second choice loosehead props in the same province was never ideal from an Ireland perspective. Its a pisser from a Leinster perspective, but it has happened before and it will happen again.


With that in mind should we be worried about Porter?


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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby mildlyinterested » February 27th, 2019, 12:12 pm

Twist wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:To be honest, I'm surprised that this didn't happen a couple of years ago. Ireland's first and second choice loosehead props in the same province was never ideal from an Ireland perspective. Its a pisser from a Leinster perspective, but it has happened before and it will happen again.


With that in mind should we be worried about Porter?


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Of course, they've tried to move him already. It's inevitable IMO, enjoy him while we have him.

Same goes for Max Deegan, given all the recent articles.
Last edited by mildlyinterested on February 27th, 2019, 12:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby wixfjord » February 27th, 2019, 12:12 pm

CiaranIrl wrote:
Jonny tight lips wrote:
“while Leinster also have a host of ex-players on the books of Connacht and Munster.” I guesss Cronin qualifies as both. Another professional contract not worth the paper it’s written on.


This is an annoying line. We have Cronin & Henshaw. Who else?

Are they talking about the likes of Mick Kearney & Kelleher who are from Leinster in the first place?



I think you're reading that wrong lads. To me that means we have a lot of players playing in Connacht and Munster.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Flash Gordon » February 27th, 2019, 12:13 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:
Flash Gordon wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:
"Provincial success is a secondary priority for the IRFU" is a more accurate way of putting it.


You can have it both though as Munster, Leinster and Ireland have proven. Spreading the resources more evenly is good for game time for Ireland but it severaly weakens the ability of an Irish team to win the champions cup and the experience that brings. There's a lot of taking fans for granted happening here, derbies are more frequently played without first string players, the Pro 14 has become extremely uncompetitive despite the fact that we rarely play our first team and our players are often not allowed to play for much of the first half of the season. In my opinion this attitude is getting worse and fans and sponsors will note that.

You really can't underestimate the impact having vibrant and successful provincial teams has on the game overall. It's positive for Ireland and it recruits people into the game - if you want t owatch Ireland chances are you won't able to. If you don't watch your province or come through a club you're more likely to follow soccer or GAA.


If Leinster are dominating the rivalries and the other provinces are noncompetitive due to their poor academies and development structures then I guess the IRFU feel the need to act to balance it out. aka weaken leinster to the benefit of the others.


Weaken Leinster is also to the benefit of Irish European rivals. That's the issue for me. We're not playing mini rugby rather elite sport. We have a budget disadvantage vs the big european teams, literally the only thing we have to fight with is our academy production line, if that gets diluted we go backwards.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby mildlyinterested » February 27th, 2019, 12:14 pm

Flash Gordon wrote:

Weaken Leinster is also to the benefit of Irish European rivals. That's the issue for me. We're not playing mini rugby rather elite sport. We have a budget disadvantage vs the big european teams, literally the only thing we have to fight with is our academy production line, if that gets diluted we go backwards.


I agree, IRFU don't seem to mind though.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Flash Gordon » February 27th, 2019, 12:16 pm

Twist wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:To be honest, I'm surprised that this didn't happen a couple of years ago. Ireland's first and second choice loosehead props in the same province was never ideal from an Ireland perspective. Its a pisser from a Leinster perspective, but it has happened before and it will happen again.


With that in mind should we be worried about Porter?


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There was a conversation about Porter moving north previously. The player was happy where he was from what i understand.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » February 27th, 2019, 12:18 pm

I'll be gutted if it turns out I was wrong about this being nonsense. I don't get the timing of it at all, can see how it made sense a while back but not now even though Healy is clear first choice at this stage. Maybe being dropped for Toulouse was the catalyst? Maybe this is why we were allowed to keep Fardy? I think Mick Dawson should be putting his foot down about players moving mid contract, that really shouldn't be allowed to happen unless someone has been completely ostracised or it's a loan deal.

Just a thought but maybe the malaise with Ireland is down to this whole situation of players leaving Leinster/the uncertainty around their futures? Last season we had the best coaching setup, the competition for places last season was intense, and it felt like everyone was 100% focused on performing and winning trophies. That's a powerful combination and despite being a billion points ahead in the league I don't think anyone is as happy with our performances this season. IMO it felt like our first and second choice teams were closer in terms of experience and quality last season, whereas now it feels like there's the first team and then the young lads. Don't get me wrong, those young players are performing unbelievably well, but COB or Dave Kearney/Daly aren't going to be getting in ahead of Henshaw and Rob, whereas Isa and Joey could well have done. So potentially a drop off in competition for places and some minds wandering elsewhere which then has the knock on effect of players not being raring to go for Ireland. Just a thought, but aside from the NZ game (Italy were so bad in Chicago that I don't think it counts) we've been poor all season.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby johng » February 27th, 2019, 12:22 pm

In fairness MaGrath is on a national contract rather than a provincial one so he is breaking nothing.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Jonny tight lips » February 27th, 2019, 12:28 pm

wixfjord wrote:
CiaranIrl wrote:
Jonny tight lips wrote:
“while Leinster also have a host of ex-players on the books of Connacht and Munster.” I guesss Cronin qualifies as both. Another professional contract not worth the paper it’s written on.


This is an annoying line. We have Cronin & Henshaw. Who else?

Are they talking about the likes of Mick Kearney & Kelleher who are from Leinster in the first place?



I think you're reading that wrong lads. To me that means we have a lot of players playing in Connacht and Munster.


Yeah your right, was perhaps too early in the morning to be posting. Also CiaranIrl Westmeath is in Leinster
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Flash Gordon » February 27th, 2019, 12:29 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I'll be gutted if it turns out I was wrong about this being nonsense. I don't get the timing of it at all, can see how it made sense a while back but not now even though Healy is clear first choice at this stage. Maybe being dropped for Toulouse was the catalyst? Maybe this is why we were allowed to keep Fardy? I think Mick Dawson should be putting his foot down about players moving mid contract, that really shouldn't be allowed to happen unless someone has been completely ostracised or it's a loan deal.

Just a thought but maybe the malaise with Ireland is down to this whole situation of players leaving Leinster/the uncertainty around their futures? Last season we had the best coaching setup, the competition for places last season was intense, and it felt like everyone was 100% focused on performing and winning trophies. That's a powerful combination and despite being a billion points ahead in the league I don't think anyone is as happy with our performances this season. IMO it felt like our first and second choice teams were closer in terms of experience and quality last season, whereas now it feels like there's the first team and then the young lads. Don't get me wrong, those young players are performing unbelievably well, but COB or Dave Kearney/Daly aren't going to be getting in ahead of Henshaw and Rob, whereas Isa and Joey could well have done. So potentially a drop off in competition for places and some minds wandering elsewhere which then has the knock on effect of players not being raring to go for Ireland. Just a thought, but aside from the NZ game (Italy were so bad in Chicago that I don't think it counts) we've been poor all season.


Think this is an excellent point. The competition for places is great for driving progression. Healy's re-emergence is a case in point. Tough competition pushes players to new levels.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby johng » February 27th, 2019, 1:12 pm

johng wrote:In fairness MaGrath is on a national contract rather than a provincial one so he is breaking nothing.

And with Best retiring Ulster only have Hendo on a Central contract. So this is another way to save Ulster a few bob. :)
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby johng » February 27th, 2019, 1:36 pm

A trend I would like to see start is players coming back to Leinster after a few years in Munster or Ulster. Jack after Cian retires would be a good one.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby the spoofer » February 27th, 2019, 1:41 pm

johng wrote:A trend I would like to see start is players coming back to Leinster after a few years in Munster or Ulster. Jack after Cian retires would be a good one.


Two chances, Joey bleeds red already.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby johng » February 27th, 2019, 1:43 pm

Ah he can bleed red and still play for us. (at full back)
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby johng » February 27th, 2019, 1:44 pm

How about Beirne to replace Fardy in a year?
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Dexter » February 27th, 2019, 3:12 pm

johng wrote:A trend I would like to see start is players coming back to Leinster after a few years in Munster or Ulster. Jack after Cian retires would be a good one.

It'd be great...but can you imagine all the whingeing and moaning from the usual places.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Avenger » February 27th, 2019, 3:49 pm

Dexter wrote:
johng wrote:A trend I would like to see start is players coming back to Leinster after a few years in Munster or Ulster. Jack after Cian retires would be a good one.

It'd be great...but can you imagine all the whingeing and moaning from the usual places.


I can. It’d be glorious.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby mildlyinterested » February 27th, 2019, 3:53 pm

i'm not going to hold my breath on getting any leinster players who left back, i'd rather we got that 5th star and in the process the IRFU the finger.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby heno » February 27th, 2019, 4:16 pm

There's a sliding scale here. One extreme is the IRFU do nothing and leinster end up having the majority of the "top" players on the island and are the only competitive team. The other extreme is the IRFU meddle incessantly and critically weaken leinster and destroy the public relationship with the provinces etc etc. But surely the optimum is the IRFU act but cautiously. Leinster continue to dominate the pro14 and win Europe every so often. The player pool is maximised around the island and team Ireland benefits.
Are the IRFU not reasonable in attempting for the optimum?
Surely it can only be judged by an observed drop in leinsters success rate?

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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby elephantman » February 27th, 2019, 4:30 pm

CiaranIrl wrote:
Jonny tight lips wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:Jack McGrath to Ulster?

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/le ... 59685.html


“while Leinster also have a host of ex-players on the books of Connacht and Munster.” I guesss Cronin qualifies as both. Another professional contract not worth the paper it’s written on.


This is an annoying line. We have Cronin & Henshaw. Who else?

Are they talking about the likes of Mick Kearney & Kelleher who are from Leinster in the first place?


Think u have misinterpreted that part of the article.

ROC is referencing ex Leinster players in Connacht and Munster, not the other way round.
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