Should Leinster play some home games outside Dublin?

[JoseFantastique]

Should Leinster play more games outside Dublin, or is the thought of rugby in towns like Kilkenny and Kildare enough to make you shudder? After the success of playing the u21's internationals to large crowds (relatively) in Athlone should Leinster play more games away from Dublin? Bizarrely, Athlone seems to view Connacht as it's team before supporting Leinster, is it due in part to the Leinster's branch decision to have 3 homes (Donnybeach, RDS and Lansdowne) in Dublin but none in an other area of the province?

[CM]

Jose

We don't really have three homes. The moves to Lansdowne and the RDS were out of necessity not choice. We need to build our product and to do that we need a permanent home. Personally I've be in favour of redeveloping the RDS but if that's not going to happen then we need Donnybrook finished as quickly as possible. Once that happens I think we'll get bigger and bigger crowds. You mention relative success for the U21s in Athlone but Connacht were never very successful at getting crowds there and it'll be interesting to see what the attendance is like in the Sportsgrounds now that they've got floodlights.

If we get to the stage where our product is so strong that we can move it around then go for it but at the moment we need stability to build the product.

[Leinsterman]

Are there any grounds suitable enough though WRT facilities and crowd capacity?

[JoseFantastique]

I dunno Leinsterman, several Leinster towns have Eircom League teams whose stadia wouldn't be used much during the winter, surely some arrangement could be done.

Some Leinsterfans seem to think that rugby fans in outlying Leinster counties rather support Munster or Connacht than Leinster, and are annoyed that this happens, but how does the Leinster branch reach out to these fans?

[Leinsterman]

but how does the Leinster branch reach out to these fans?

If we're perfectly honest/blunt about it - they probably don't give a flying f**k. They certainly don't care about Junior clubs so why bother worrying about supporters outside Dublin

[CM]

I dunno Leinsterman, several Leinster towns have Eircom League teams whose stadia wouldn't be used much during the winter, surely some arrangement could be done.

Some Leinsterfans seem to think that rugby fans in outlying Leinster counties rather support Munster or Connacht than Leinster, and are annoyed that this happens, but how does the Leinster branch reach out to these fans?

I don't think the odd game here and there would make a difference. People nearer Connacht and Munster who support those sides probably always would and will regardless of what Leinster do. We'd be mad to move our base out of Dublin so there's really not much we can do about it. If people want to be turncoats that's their choice!

While we should make every effort to include all of Leinster in our thinking we still need to concentrate on the business end of things and that's maximising the CL attendance by concentrating on getting the most likely people, Dubliners, to attend. Just like in Munster when it's mostly locals of Cork or Limerick who attend the CL matches.

I remember Jim Williams complaining about the two venue issue in Munster so in the pro-era we'd be stupid to try and create something that's not there. The branch are doing what they can with pre-season friendlies and player appearances dotted around the province.

[jezzer]

Jose,

Definitely.

We need to market the Leinster product to a wider audience, particularly the TV audience. The dilemma for the CL is that the people who go to the matches are also the people who want to watch it on Setanta. Can't do both, so either attendances suffer or broadcasting rights aren't of sufficient value.

Answer: Put some Leinster CL games on the road, headed by heavy promotion. Get players to visit local schools/clubs. Do local press events. Bring merchandise with you for sale and give out freebies (BOSI/Leinster flags hats etc.). Even if you can only match the kind of attendance you get on a bad day in Dublin, it's 3000 NEW fans. Over time, some of those fans will: go to the next game, start watching leinster games on telly, push the CL to expand geographical coverage of TV, buy merchandise, play rugby.....

We're spoiled for sporting choice in Dublin, both live and on the TV. A bigger representation from the other leinster counties will bring in more committed fans who will be grateful for the chance every so often to watch a game live. it would be a damn sight easier to add 2000 extra regualr supporters and 10,000 extra TV viewers from the rest of Leinster than from Dublin.

Trying to preserve it for Dublin fans only is selfish and counter-productive.

[JoseFantastique]

I thought Jim Williams was criticising the 2 city training approach, rather than basing the team in one city for training.

CM, would you not accept that if anything, the current appraoch isn't working and a new method is needed? Afterall it's not as if in the CL Leinster's crowds have been increasing much by being based continually in Dublin.

[CM]

I thought Jim Williams was criticising the 2 city training approach, rather than basing the team in one city for training.

It's the same thing. The fact that there are two bases means that there's two places to train. Get rid of one base and you've no choice but to train in the one left.

CM, would you not accept that if anything, the current appraoch isn't working and a new method is needed? Afterall it's not as if in the CL Leinster's crowds have been increasing much by being based continually in Dublin.

Attendances have been rising each year. We're close to last year's attendance already with two games in hand. With a return to Friday nights being touted I expect us to build on that.

[JoseFantastique]

It's a pity Leinster look to have lost Athlone, as I think the midlands is cryng out for rugby. They're cr@p at soccer, hurling, not great at GAA so surely a topclass rugby team would have been a huge draw for the town,or is it a city by now?

[Leinsterman]

If people want to be turncoats that's their choice!

Nail on head.

[JoseFantastique]

I thought Jim Williams was criticising the 2 city training approach, rather than basing the team in one city for training.

It's the same thing. The fact that there are two bases means that there's two places to train. Get rid of one base and you've no choice but to train in the one left.

CM, would you not accept that if anything, the current appraoch isn't working and a new method is needed? Afterall it's not as if in the CL Leinster's crowds have been increasing much by being based continually in Dublin.

Attendances have been rising each year. We're close to last year's attendance already with two games in hand. With a return to Friday nights being touted I expect us to build on that.

It's not the same thing, not even close, Williams was advocating basing the players in one top class training facility but continuing to play games in both cities.

As regards Friday nights, every team is looking to play on Friday, certainly Ulster and Connacht also expect to be playing on Friday nights next year too, might be hard to persuade Setanta that though.

How much of this years attendances has been made up by moving bigger, always sell-out games such as the Munster game to a bigger venue?

[JoseFantastique]

If people want to be turncoats that's their choice!

Nail on head.

What if people are disenfrancised by Leinster's Dublin only policy?

[epaddy]

Problem for Leinster is the Brook is possibley the most unfamily friendly venue going. The one run of the mill CL game we had in the RDS got 7,000 at it.

Regarding moving games around. We live in a city of 1.5 million people if we marketed ourseleves right there should be no problem

[Uncle Mort]

This hits at the very heart of what is trying to be acheived here. If Leinster rugby is an extension of the branch that exists to promote rugby to the whole of the province but also to provide players for the next, i.e. professional level then yes it should play matches across the province. However, if Leinster Rugby exists as a professional rugby club in its own right with the aim of competeing in the CL and the HEC then no it shouldn't. The two are mutually exclusive and Leinster Rugby can't do both.

I subscribe to the second - Leinster Rugby is now de facto a club - not a province - it exists to win the CL and the HEC. To this end it has to establish a home ground which will become the focus of the club. You wouldn't ask should Liverpool play matches around Merseyside, Manchester United play matches around Lancashire or Arsenal around London? As I say Leinster Rugby is now a club and has to make Donnybrook its own identifiable home.

[Leinsterman]

Look - people will jump on the Munster bandwagon anyway, even if Leinster bust a gut promoting the province outside Dublin.
I know enough Dubs who support Munster and won't be swayed by any sort of promotion by the branch. Concentrate on building up the suppor IN Dublin and then when that has been maximised, concentrate on the surrounding counties. Using a "scatter shot" approach throughout the province is a waste of time, money and effort.

[epaddy]

This hits at the very heart of what is trying to be acheived here. If Leinster rugby is an extension of the branch that exists to promote rugby to the whole of the province but also to provide players for the next, i.e. professional level then yes it should play matches across the province. However, if Leinster Rugby exists as a professional rugby club in its own right with the aim of competeing in the CL and the HEC then no it shouldn't. The two are mutually exclusive and Leinster Rugby can't do both.

I subscribe to the second - Leinster Rugby is now de facto a club - not a province - it exists to win the CL and the HEC. To this end it has to establish a home ground which will become the focus of the club. You wouldn't ask should Liverpool play matches around Merseyside, Manchester United play matches around Lancashire or Arsenal around London? As I say Leinster Rugby is now a club and has to make Donnybrook its own identifiable home.

Well thats the difference between the Leinster Branch and Leinster Rugby. If Leinster rugby becomes very popular in the city, the hicks will want to come along too

[Dave Cahill]

If people want to be turncoats that's their choice!

Nail on head.

What if people are disenfrancised by Leinster's Dublin only policy?

Tough, quite frankly. If someone gets annoyed by a provincial team playing in that provinces biggest city where the vast majority of fans, clubs and facilities are then I would suggest that they are mental.

Do people from Cork or Tipp or Clare or Kerry etc etc refuse to go to HEC games because of the Limerick only policy?

[Uncle Mort]

Look - people will jump on the Munster bandwagon anyway, even if Leinster bust a gut promoting the province outside Dublin.
I know enough Dubs who support Munster and won't be swayed by any sort of promotion by the branch.

This is too true - I was speaking with a Leinster season ticket holder at the Connacht game who when asked if they were going to Toulouse said "you must be joking - not with Munster playing just down the road and all the pleasure they've given me over the years"

We are swimming aganist the tide but if we all pull togther we will get there.

[jezzer]

Population of Dublin is 1m, Another million in the rest of Leinster, but they obviously don't count.... you'd begrudge someone with little chance of getting to Donnybrook Strand a mid-season match against the Ospreys, a chance to meet the squad and something to talk about at work on Monday so you can keep it as an exclusively Dublin preserve. You're happy for Leinster to take players from outside Dublin but not have those players play in front of their local fans, friends and families.