Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

[munster#1]

I don't think Leinster are paying anything for the redevelopment, although I do seem to recall a mention that they helped secure the stadium sponsor.

Is their lease being increased or extended to justify the redevelopment?

why do you think this information would be in the public domain?

Why wouldn't it be?

[Peg Leg]

I know the answer is probably somewhere in the thread, but too lazy to look.

What is Leinster Rugby's outlay for this development, and what do they receive in return?
Will they be joint owners, part owners etc?

Given how few times the stadium is filled at its current capacity, and the number of matches where only 10k-13k show up, is increasing the capacity a waste of money.
We have all seen how soulless TP can look when only 12K fans show up.

More ST's more money. We don't have a corporate section at all. I'm already tee'ing my directors up for a wedge there. The market in Dublin isn't lots of seats, it's big arses.

[simonokeeffe]

I know the answer is probably somewhere in the thread, but too lazy to look.

What is Leinster Rugby's outlay for this development, and what do they receive in return?
Will they be joint owners, part owners etc?

Given how few times the stadium is filled at its current capacity, and the number of matches where only 10k-13k show up, is increasing the capacity a waste of money.
We have all seen how soulless TP can look when only 12K fans show up.

More ST's more money. We don't have a corporate section at all. I'm already tee'ing my directors up for a wedge there. The market in Dublin isn't lots of seats, it's big arses.

Oldschoolsocks we're looking in your direction

[ronk]

I know the answer is probably somewhere in the thread, but too lazy to look.

What is Leinster Rugby's outlay for this development, and what do they receive in return?
Will they be joint owners, part owners etc?

Given how few times the stadium is filled at its current capacity, and the number of matches where only 10k-13k show up, is increasing the capacity a waste of money.
We have all seen how soulless TP can look when only 12K fans show up.

More ST's more money. We don't have a corporate section at all. I'm already tee'ing my directors up for a wedge there. The market in Dublin isn't lots of seats, it's big arses.

They tried that in Limerick too. Didn't go well, they had competition with their own clubs selling corporate packages, we'll have the Irish team.

We'd need to be modest in terms of corporate unless we want to cause problems for ourselves.

[TerenureJim]

I know the answer is probably somewhere in the thread, but too lazy to look.

What is Leinster Rugby's outlay for this development, and what do they receive in return?
Will they be joint owners, part owners etc?

Given how few times the stadium is filled at its current capacity, and the number of matches where only 10k-13k show up, is increasing the capacity a waste of money.
We have all seen how soulless TP can look when only 12K fans show up.

More ST's more money. We don't have a corporate section at all. I'm already tee'ing my directors up for a wedge there. The market in Dublin isn't lots of seats, it's big arses.

They tried that in Limerick too. Didn't go well, they had competition with their own clubs selling corporate packages, we'll have the Irish team.

We'd need to be modest in terms of corporate unless we want to cause problems for ourselves.

There's no chance of causing problems for ourselves, it's the RDS who are developing their own stadium we are but a tenant, yes we put bums on seats and are a good revenue stream for them but with the horse show and summer concerts any potential development with added scope for better facilities for corporate boxes, more season tickets and all round better facilities it's just a win-win

[The Doc]

I know the answer is probably somewhere in the thread, but too lazy to look.

What is Leinster Rugby's outlay for this development, and what do they receive in return?
Will they be joint owners, part owners etc?

Given how few times the stadium is filled at its current capacity, and the number of matches where only 10k-13k show up, is increasing the capacity a waste of money.
We have all seen how soulless TP can look when only 12K fans show up.

More ST's more money. We don't have a corporate section at all. I'm already tee'ing my directors up for a wedge there. The market in Dublin isn't lots of seats, it's big arses.

They tried that in Limerick too. Didn't go well, they had competition with their own clubs selling corporate packages, we'll have the Irish team.

We'd need to be modest in terms of corporate unless we want to cause problems for ourselves.

It's a different scenario in Leinster. In Munster the clubs were much more part of the pro setup... Tickets for Munster were partially distributed through the clubs... A bit like international tickets. Some of the clubs were generating significant revenue from selling packages around Munster games at the height of the boom. So when Munster rugby got in the business of corporate hospitality it caused issues.

Here there was a split between the club and professional marketing from an early stage with LR using the season ticket holders and members as the distribution route for tickets rather than clubs. So there isn't the same conflict.

It's a similar story with the season tickets in Munster and the conflict there can be when knock out tickets are being distributed. Usually a good portion of Munster allocation goes to clubs making it difficult for ST holders to get them

[naraic]

I know the answer is probably somewhere in the thread, but too lazy to look.

What is Leinster Rugby's outlay for this development, and what do they receive in return?
Will they be joint owners, part owners etc?

My understanding which is mainly from gossip here and elsewhere is that there was a break clause where Leinster rugby could walk (with no cost) for 2017/2018. Leinster wanted to renegotiate their deal with the RDS for one of three things

1)11 or 12 games including the schools cup instead of the current 13 games including the schools cup final

2) To reduce to rent

3) Get Leinster a share of concession income.

Leinster agreed not to activate the break clause and to assist in arranging a stadium sponsor if RDS expanded the stadium. Not a bad deal but I've heard before that Leinster pay significant rent in the RDS (over the odds).

Leinster would probably get more additional bums on seats by moving one extra game a season to the Aviva (Ulster rescheduled or a second ERCC group game) which is probably what would have happened if Leinster had activated their break clause and renegotiated the lease.

[ronk]

More ST's more money. We don't have a corporate section at all. I'm already tee'ing my directors up for a wedge there. The market in Dublin isn't lots of seats, it's big arses.

They tried that in Limerick too. Didn't go well, they had competition with their own clubs selling corporate packages, we'll have the Irish team.

We'd need to be modest in terms of corporate unless we want to cause problems for ourselves.

There's no chance of causing problems for ourselves, it's the RDS who are developing their own stadium we are but a tenant, yes we put bums on seats and are a good revenue stream for them but with the horse show and summer concerts any potential development with added scope for better facilities for corporate boxes, more season tickets and all round better facilities it's just a win-win

There's always a chance, we wouldn't even need to have any debt or increased outgoings like rent. All that would have to happen is budgeting for income when planning and then have it disappear.

Munster weren't worried about corporate income disappearing but the boxes dropped off quickly.

[Xanthippe]

The market in Dublin isn't lots of seats, it's big arses.

Hmmm, not sure how I feel about you discussing the size of my 'ass-ets' on a public forum

[simonokeeffe]

The market in Dublin isn't lots of seats, it's big arses.

Hmmm, not sure how I feel about you discussing the size of my 'ass-ets' on a public forum

Might be best to put it behind you

[Flash Gordon]

More ST's more money. We don't have a corporate section at all. I'm already tee'ing my directors up for a wedge there. The market in Dublin isn't lots of seats, it's big arses.

They tried that in Limerick too. Didn't go well, they had competition with their own clubs selling corporate packages, we'll have the Irish team.

We'd need to be modest in terms of corporate unless we want to cause problems for ourselves.

There's no chance of causing problems for ourselves, it's the RDS who are developing their own stadium we are but a tenant, yes we put bums on seats and are a good revenue stream for them but with the horse show and summer concerts any potential development with added scope for better facilities for corporate boxes, more season tickets and all round better facilities it's just a win-win

Yep, there'd be a big corporate market for the horse show and concerts. I wouldn't under estimate the corporate potential for rugby either, there are a lot more businesses in Dublin than Limerick obviously and a lot more wealthy individuals.

If you go to England there's quite a big market for the "special day" ordinary punters in the corporate areas - birthdays, stags etc are a significant market - they work out at about 100 quid a head. Got to be a good thing in terms of revenue......atmosphere less so....

[Hornet]

Yep, there'd be a big corporate market for the horse show and concerts. I wouldn't under estimate the corporate potential for rugby either, there are a lot more businesses in Dublin than Limerick obviously and a lot more wealthy individuals.

If you go to England there's quite a big market for the "special day" ordinary punters in the corporate areas - birthdays, stags etc are a significant market - they work out at about 100 quid a head. Got to be a good thing in terms of revenue......atmosphere less so....

It needs to be marketed properly. Once my Manager found out that I was a regular STH, I was being constantly badgered by him (and others in the organisation), to get tickets for the bigger games. When I worked in the UK, the Company I worked for sponsored a corporate box at Wycombe Wanderers FC, (Wasps were at Acton/Loftus Road at the time). The bigger games were reserved for the Company Directors, and Clients (mainly American/Chinese). For the lesser games there would be a ballot amongst the workforce, with those who were successful, being able to use the box FOC, for themselves plus Workmates, Friends and Family. To maximise the box use, you could get organisations who may want the box purely for Rugby matches, to tie up with organisations who would only use the box for the Horse Show, or concerts, other activities, etc, to share cost but maximise potential earnings.

[Edna Kenny]

Yep, there'd be a big corporate market for the horse show and concerts. I wouldn't under estimate the corporate potential for rugby either, there are a lot more businesses in Dublin than Limerick obviously and a lot more wealthy individuals.

If you go to England there's quite a big market for the "special day" ordinary punters in the corporate areas - birthdays, stags etc are a significant market - they work out at about 100 quid a head. Got to be a good thing in terms of revenue......atmosphere less so....

It needs to be marketed properly. Once my Manager found out that I was a regular STH, I was being constantly badgered by him (and others in the organisation), to get tickets for the bigger games. When I worked in the UK, the Company I worked for sponsored a corporate box at Wycombe Wanderers FC, (Wasps were at Acton/Loftus Road at the time). The bigger games were reserved for the Company Directors, and Clients (mainly American/Chinese). For the lesser games there would be a ballot amongst the workforce, with those who were successful, being able to use the box FOC, for themselves plus Workmates, Friends and Family. To maximise the box use, you could get organisations who may want the box purely for Rugby matches, to tie up with organisations who would only use the box for the Horse Show, or concerts, other activities, etc, to share cost but maximise potential earnings.

If something equivalent to the ticket exchange was used, the box owner could receive payment for sub-letting it. Whilst the corporate stuff isn't great for atmosphere etc, we need to maximise match day revenue. Leinster could easily tap into the market of places like Shelbourne Park for corporate nights out. It looks like there'll be a good balance in the new stadium. With terracing along the front of the new stand it will keep the ground noisy. Also, if they can get the North and South ends covered it will make a massive difference to the atmosphere and probably mean that supporters will turn up even if it's lashing rain.

[Ruckedtobits]

Both ends will be covered but with removable roofs for Horse Show us AFAIK. Some really informed comment on here, some total rubbish.

RDS need:
1. Stadium Sponsor. Leinster have arranged;
2. Government Grant - "promised" but nottied up;
3. Confirmation of Bank funding - dependant on 1. & 2. above.

For Leinster the biggest potential are two new Income streams, concessions and corporate hospitality. Possibly another €0.5 - 1.0m p.a. Additional ticket revenue starts with more STH. Max full houses p.a. c. 10. 50% of our games. Go figure.

[naraic]

Both ends will be covered but with removable roofs for Horse Show us AFAIK. Some really informed comment on here, some total rubbish.

RDS need:
1. Stadium Sponsor. Leinster have arranged;
2. Government Grant - "promised" but nottied up;
3. Confirmation of Bank funding - dependant on 1. & 2. above.

For Leinster the biggest potential are two new Income streams, concessions and corporate hospitality. Possibly another €0.5 - 1.0m p.a. Additional ticket revenue starts with more STH. Max full houses p.a. c. 10. 50% of our games. Go figure.

Interesting, given that at present Leinster earn a total of €nil from concessions in the RDS.

You are right an increase in the max number of sth is definitely valuable and the corporate boxes can be nothing but a good thing.

[suisse]

Both ends will be covered but with removable roofs for Horse Show us AFAIK.

The benefits of a fully covered stadium seems to be entirely lost in Ireland. Am I right in saying only the Aviva has a roof on all 4 sides? Tallaght has a roof on their 2 stands.

[jimbobjoe]

Both ends will be covered but with removable roofs for Horse Show us AFAIK.

The benefits of a fully covered stadium seems to be entirely lost in Ireland. Am I right in saying only the Aviva has a roof on all 4 sides? Tallaght has a roof on their 2 stands.

Ravenhill the only other?

[suisse]

Both ends will be covered but with removable roofs for Horse Show us AFAIK.

The benefits of a fully covered stadium seems to be entirely lost in Ireland. Am I right in saying only the Aviva has a roof on all 4 sides? Tallaght has a roof on their 2 stands.

Ravenhill the only other?

True. I'm not sure if I meant whole island or just the south. But I'll take one too.

[Lar]

Apologies if this was dealt with here further back in the thread but what is the timing on the redevelopment?

As I understand it the plans were approved by Dublin City Council despite local objections and the permission was appealed to An Bord Pleanala. This was last summer though - has the appeal been decided? If so what is the decision? If no, when?

And how long will re-development take? Our season runs from September to May so there would be three months in summer free, but the owners main event of the year takes place in early August so I can't imagine they will want a building site for that. Are we to be without the Anglesea Stand for a season? I can't imagine re-development will be much quicker than a year but I have no knowledge of such matters.

[Edna Kenny]

It looks like the re-development won't happen until after next season, the last message was that the same season ticket arrangements would be in place for 2017-2018. I think they're working on getting permission for a roof on the north and south stands which would allow them to re-locate all season ticket holders whilst the new stand is built. Not sure how long the build will last but I expect it will be at least a year.