Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

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Re: Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

Postby suisse » June 13th, 2019, 5:14 am

I know I probably sound very negative about this all the time, but the utter state of stadia in Ireland is depressing. Almost every stadium isn't fully completed and so many stands have no rooves even though it rains a lot. If you can put up temporary stands like the RDS why can't you put up a temporary roof? I was in the North Stand for the Toulouse game in January. As you're entering the stand from behind, it is a total shambles. It looks so tacky and amateurish. No place for one of the sport's premier teams in a city with a great population of around 2 million. 75% of the RDS looks temporary. Scaffolding, cheap seats, the noise from the temp stand as people run up and down.

The designs for the new Connacht stadium are equally f%~ked. You can't say anything bad because in Ireland there's no place for an alternative view. Their upgraded stadium looks so f%~king shit. I don't know why anyone would bother giving planning permission.

DC United just moved into a purpose build 20,000-seater stadium. It has 4 nice stands with [plenty of safe standing as well and a Heineken bar behind one of the goals. Proper TVs and screens. The RDS "big screens" are, well......pathetic. Audi Field looks like a proper stadium for a minority sport but very much growing. The RDS, meanwhile, even with revamp, will be a colossal dump.
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Re: Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

Postby hugonaut » June 13th, 2019, 8:11 am

suisse wrote:I know I probably sound very negative about this all the time, but the utter state of stadia in Ireland is depressing. Almost every stadium isn't fully completed and so many stands have no rooves even though it rains a lot. If you can put up temporary stands like the RDS why can't you put up a temporary roof? I was in the North Stand for the Toulouse game in January. As you're entering the stand from behind, it is a total shambles. It looks so tacky and amateurish. No place for one of the sport's premier teams in a city with a great population of around 2 million. 75% of the RDS looks temporary. Scaffolding, cheap seats, the noise from the temp stand as people run up and down.

The designs for the new Connacht stadium are equally f%~ked. You can't say anything bad because in Ireland there's no place for an alternative view. Their upgraded stadium looks so f%~king shit. I don't know why anyone would bother giving planning permission.

DC United just moved into a purpose build 20,000-seater stadium. It has 4 nice stands with [plenty of safe standing as well and a Heineken bar behind one of the goals. Proper TVs and screens. The RDS "big screens" are, well......pathetic. Audi Field looks like a proper stadium for a minority sport but very much growing. The RDS, meanwhile, even with revamp, will be a colossal dump.


Audi Field was paid for by an Indonesian billionaire and cost $300m.
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Re: Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

Postby Dave Cahill » June 13th, 2019, 8:35 am

hugonaut wrote:
suisse wrote:I know I probably sound very negative about this all the time, but the utter state of stadia in Ireland is depressing. Almost every stadium isn't fully completed and so many stands have no rooves even though it rains a lot. If you can put up temporary stands like the RDS why can't you put up a temporary roof? I was in the North Stand for the Toulouse game in January. As you're entering the stand from behind, it is a total shambles. It looks so tacky and amateurish. No place for one of the sport's premier teams in a city with a great population of around 2 million. 75% of the RDS looks temporary. Scaffolding, cheap seats, the noise from the temp stand as people run up and down.

The designs for the new Connacht stadium are equally f%~ked. You can't say anything bad because in Ireland there's no place for an alternative view. Their upgraded stadium looks so f%~king shit. I don't know why anyone would bother giving planning permission.

DC United just moved into a purpose build 20,000-seater stadium. It has 4 nice stands with [plenty of safe standing as well and a Heineken bar behind one of the goals. Proper TVs and screens. The RDS "big screens" are, well......pathetic. Audi Field looks like a proper stadium for a minority sport but very much growing. The RDS, meanwhile, even with revamp, will be a colossal dump.


Audi Field was paid for by an Indonesian billionaire and cost $300m.



Pretty sure that a good chunk, the largest chunk indeed, of it was paid for by the (largely unrepresented) taxpayers of DC.

The american sports model has next to no impact on how things are done in Europe. It is, essentially, Stalinist.

Imagine the conversation in Dublin if Leinster decided to adopt the american approach.

LR: We need a new Stadium
Dub: Okay, we'd like to help in any way we can
LR: Build and pay for it.
Dub: Excuse me?
LR: Build and pay for it or we'll move the team out of Dublin.
Dub: Where are you going to go, Kells? Would you ever f%~k off.
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Re: Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

Postby curates_egg » June 13th, 2019, 9:15 am

Dave Cahill wrote:
hugonaut wrote:
suisse wrote:I know I probably sound very negative about this all the time, but the utter state of stadia in Ireland is depressing. Almost every stadium isn't fully completed and so many stands have no rooves even though it rains a lot. If you can put up temporary stands like the RDS why can't you put up a temporary roof? I was in the North Stand for the Toulouse game in January. As you're entering the stand from behind, it is a total shambles. It looks so tacky and amateurish. No place for one of the sport's premier teams in a city with a great population of around 2 million. 75% of the RDS looks temporary. Scaffolding, cheap seats, the noise from the temp stand as people run up and down.

The designs for the new Connacht stadium are equally f%~ked. You can't say anything bad because in Ireland there's no place for an alternative view. Their upgraded stadium looks so f%~king shit. I don't know why anyone would bother giving planning permission.

DC United just moved into a purpose build 20,000-seater stadium. It has 4 nice stands with [plenty of safe standing as well and a Heineken bar behind one of the goals. Proper TVs and screens. The RDS "big screens" are, well......pathetic. Audi Field looks like a proper stadium for a minority sport but very much growing. The RDS, meanwhile, even with revamp, will be a colossal dump.


Audi Field was paid for by an Indonesian billionaire and cost $300m.



Pretty sure that a good chunk, the largest chunk indeed, of it was paid for by the (largely unrepresented) taxpayers of DC.

The american sports model has next to no impact on how things are done in Europe. It is, essentially, Stalinist.

Imagine the conversation in Dublin if Leinster decided to adopt the american approach.

LR: We need a new Stadium
Dub: Okay, we'd like to help in any way we can
LR: Build and pay for it.
Dub: Excuse me?
LR: Build and pay for it or we'll move the team out of Dublin.
Dub: Where are you going to go, Kells? Would you ever f%~k off.


I saw one of the last (if not the last) games in the old DC united stadium: Wales vs South Africa last June.
The stadium was falling apart and most people had to sit in the rain, as the roof only covered about 1/3 of the seats.

The new build was very controversial if I am not mistaken. Didn't DC United (the Indonesian billionaire) get loads of tax credits and the right to build hotels, shops and restaurants on the site that the public authority purchased?
Thank god our republic is not that banana!

All that being said, I think they could and should cover all the stands.
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Re: Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

Postby Dave Cahill » June 13th, 2019, 9:25 am

Another thing is that the two main GAA codes and Soccer have their main competitions during the summer and for the GAA crowds at League matches are low enough to be catered for in the stands with rooves should it rain.

I was on the OLSC Committee the year the Grandstand had no roof - we gave out thousands of ponchos before games to denizens of the Grandstand.

It rained once.
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Re: Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

Postby Dave Cahill » June 13th, 2019, 9:30 am

curates_egg wrote:The new build was very controversial if I am not mistaken. Didn't DC United (the Indonesian billionaire) get loads of tax credits and the right to build hotels, shops and restaurants on the site that the public authority purchased?
Thank god our republic is not that banana!



Massive amount of tax credits were doled out.

American sport has somehow managed to convince legislators that a new stadium will increase the tax take for their city, create jobs, renew neighbourhoods etc. In reality they don't. People have a finite budget for entertainment and money generated by the new stadium is money lost elsewhere, jobs aren't created, they're merely transferred and neighbourhoods don't get renewed, they get gentrified - often destroying existing communities.
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Re: Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

Postby Keith » June 13th, 2019, 12:40 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:Another thing is that the two main GAA codes and Soccer have their main competitions during the summer and for the GAA crowds at League matches are low enough to be catered for in the stands with rooves should it rain.

I was on the OLSC Committee the year the Grandstand had no roof - we gave out thousands of ponchos before games to denizens of the Grandstand.

It rained once.

To be fair The stands also protect against the freezing winds Ireland gets most year round too.
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Re: Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

Postby Fireworks » June 13th, 2019, 12:55 pm

suisse wrote:I know I probably sound very negative about this all the time, but the utter state of stadia in Ireland is depressing. Almost every stadium isn't fully completed and so many stands have no rooves even though it rains a lot. If you can put up temporary stands like the RDS why can't you put up a temporary roof? I was in the North Stand for the Toulouse game in January. As you're entering the stand from behind, it is a total shambles. It looks so tacky and amateurish. No place for one of the sport's premier teams in a city with a great population of around 2 million. 75% of the RDS looks temporary. Scaffolding, cheap seats, the noise from the temp stand as people run up and down.

The designs for the new Connacht stadium are equally f%~ked. You can't say anything bad because in Ireland there's no place for an alternative view. Their upgraded stadium looks so f%~king shit. I don't know why anyone would bother giving planning permission.

DC United just moved into a purpose build 20,000-seater stadium. It has 4 nice stands with [plenty of safe standing as well and a Heineken bar behind one of the goals. Proper TVs and screens. The RDS "big screens" are, well......pathetic. Audi Field looks like a proper stadium for a minority sport but very much growing. The RDS, meanwhile, even with revamp, will be a colossal dump.


I agree with the sentiment but not the examples. As others have pointed out those examples do not work here. However, there must be an imaginative low-cost way to get a good looking stadium built. I have always hated the idea of just replacing the stand when they should look to develop a full stadium. I don't have answers but I have ideas and I have to assume that there are better placed architects and business people out there that could come up with a model that would work for everyone concerned.
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Re: Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

Postby wixfjord » June 13th, 2019, 12:58 pm

Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't one of the key points about building a four sided enclosed stadium that you can't due to the horse show?
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Re: Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

Postby Dave Cahill » June 13th, 2019, 1:06 pm

wixfjord wrote:Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't one of the key points about building a four sided enclosed stadium that you can't due to the horse show?


Yes.
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Re: Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

Postby Fireworks » June 13th, 2019, 1:19 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
wixfjord wrote:Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't one of the key points about building a four sided enclosed stadium that you can't due to the horse show?


Yes.


Is that not a design constraint rather than a complete block. I would imagine that the real difficulty is that the solutions which could be built are too expensive. We need a billionaire sugar daddy or as I suggested some people who can think outside the box.
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Re: Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

Postby wixfjord » June 13th, 2019, 1:37 pm

Fireworks wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:
wixfjord wrote:Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't one of the key points about building a four sided enclosed stadium that you can't due to the horse show?


Yes.


Is that not a design constraint rather than a complete block. I would imagine that the real difficulty is that the solutions which could be built are too expensive. We need a billionaire sugar daddy or as I suggested some people who can think outside the box.


Well you have to reverse out stands every August, presumably by dismantling them, so I don't think it's really even an option.

FWIW I think a much improved main stand with corporate facilities and a slightly increased capacity is exactly what we need.
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Re: Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

Postby cormac » June 13th, 2019, 1:57 pm

I wonder if it would be possible to have a three-side permanent structure with a removable stand at the southern end of the ground and still accommodate the horse-show?
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Re: Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

Postby wixfjord » June 13th, 2019, 2:02 pm

cormac wrote:I wonder if it would be possible to have a three-side permanent structure with a removable stand at the southern end of the ground and still accommodate the horse-show?


Do they need the full length of the pitch or access for stables or something? (Presumably unlike many of my Leinster Rugby brethern I have never been to a horse show, so have no idea what the set up is!)
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Re: Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

Postby jimbobjoe » June 13th, 2019, 2:04 pm

cormac wrote:I wonder if it would be possible to have a three-side permanent structure with a removable stand at the southern end of the ground and still accommodate the horse-show?


It would be in keeping with Dublins other three-quarter stadia!
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Re: Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

Postby Workhorse » June 13th, 2019, 2:12 pm

jimbobjoe wrote:
cormac wrote:I wonder if it would be possible to have a three-side permanent structure with a removable stand at the southern end of the ground and still accommodate the horse-show?


It would be in keeping with Dublins other three-quarter stadia!


Croker, Tallaght, Lansdowne, all with the north end being the outlier end which is some coincidence.
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Re: Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

Postby cormac » June 13th, 2019, 2:13 pm

wixfjord wrote:
cormac wrote:I wonder if it would be possible to have a three-side permanent structure with a removable stand at the southern end of the ground and still accommodate the horse-show?


Do they need the full length of the pitch or access for stables or something? (Presumably unlike many of my Leinster Rugby brethern I have never been to a horse show, so have no idea what the set up is!)


Been a long time since I was at the RDS for the horse-show but my memory is that the stables are in the area behind the South Stand and the horses enter the arena from the corner of that end near the Anglesea Stand. The horse-show currently uses the full-length of the grass area (once the temp stands at either end are removed) but I'm wondering whether they need that full area or whether they could still stage the show-jumping if there was a permanent structure where the temporary north stand is currently located.

If it were possible to have the three-sided permanent structure you could still keep the temp stand at the southern end and remove it at the conclusion of the rugby season as they currently do.
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Re: Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

Postby Peg Leg » June 13th, 2019, 4:30 pm

cormac wrote:I wonder if it would be possible to have a three-side permanent structure with a removable stand at the southern end of the ground and still accommodate the horse-show?
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Re: Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

Postby The Doc » June 13th, 2019, 4:32 pm

cormac wrote:
wixfjord wrote:
cormac wrote:I wonder if it would be possible to have a three-side permanent structure with a removable stand at the southern end of the ground and still accommodate the horse-show?


Do they need the full length of the pitch or access for stables or something? (Presumably unlike many of my Leinster Rugby brethern I have never been to a horse show, so have no idea what the set up is!)


Been a long time since I was at the RDS for the horse-show but my memory is that the stables are in the area behind the South Stand and the horses enter the arena from the corner of that end near the Anglesea Stand. The horse-show currently uses the full-length of the grass area (once the temp stands at either end are removed) but I'm wondering whether they need that full area or whether they could still stage the show-jumping if there was a permanent structure where the temporary north stand is currently located.

If it were possible to have the three-sided permanent structure you could still keep the temp stand at the southern end and remove it at the conclusion of the rugby season as they currently do.


Most of the stabling is actually over in Simmonscourt - there is some holding "pens" behind where the South Stand is. As far as I know they do need the full area - both north and south stands are removed. It seems horses need a lot of space to run around - bit like kids !!!

I guess in theory you could have permanent roof structures with the seats being removable - would make for an interesting design
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Re: Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

Postby Workhorse » June 13th, 2019, 9:44 pm

Has anyone seen the Forsyth Barr Stadium in New Zealand? Its the indoor one with the clear roof. Something like the ends there could be looked at, basically just a permanent roof over a temporary stand, maybe the roof over the pitch negates some problem (wind?) that makes it harder to do in an open stadium but surely there's nothing that's insurmountable.

The Grandstand needs to be made permanent too, preferably with a covered concourse behind it.
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