Leinster & Hookers

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Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby mildlyinterested » October 12th, 2017, 3:28 pm

leinsterforever wrote:Jackman was the worst of the lot when it came to throwing. Munster have probably had the more accurate throwers over the last 15 years or so. Flannery was a master thrower obviously, but Duncan Casey is good as well. It was interesting how Best's throwing wasn't an issue at all when Plumtree was Ireland lineout coach because the whole set-piece was so well coached. If there's any weakness at all in the non-throwing side of things a bad thrower's issues can snowball due to his uncertainty.

Should McNulty be on the list above, or is that only hookers from Dublin or something?


McNulty came through Munster schools/underage, probably should include him now that he has spent 3 years in academy, plus another year in sub academy.
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Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby Grumpy Old Man » October 12th, 2017, 3:36 pm

One thing that puzzles me - do the laws state that a hooker has to throw the ball into the lineout? If not, why don't more teams experiment with alternate line out throwers? The wings used do it in my day.
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Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby Dave Cahill » October 12th, 2017, 3:38 pm

The problem is national rather than local. Cronin and Flannery came through very similar routes, one can throw, one can't. Sheehan and Keith Wood came through the Munster system, neither were more than serviceable at best out of touch. Shane Byrne came through the Leinster system, he was very accurate, but others haven't been. Jackman was in Leinster, England, Connacht and Leinster with little or no change. Best came through Ulster, John McDonald was dead balls accurate whilst Steve Smith wasn't so much. The reality is that Ireland doesn't produce hookers than have accuracy at lineout time as one of their prime weapons - flukes like Flannery or Mullet aside - and what we also don't have is any kind of interest in remedying the situation for some reason. There are guys in all four european squads for this weekend who if required to anything other than basic two or four ball are throw and hope merchants.
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Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby leinsterforever » October 12th, 2017, 3:43 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:
leinsterforever wrote:Jackman was the worst of the lot when it came to throwing. Munster have probably had the more accurate throwers over the last 15 years or so. Flannery was a master thrower obviously, but Duncan Casey is good as well. It was interesting how Best's throwing wasn't an issue at all when Plumtree was Ireland lineout coach because the whole set-piece was so well coached. If there's any weakness at all in the non-throwing side of things a bad thrower's issues can snowball due to his uncertainty.

Should McNulty be on the list above, or is that only hookers from Dublin or something?


McNulty came through Munster schools/underage, probably should include him now that he has spent 3 years in academy, plus another year in sub academy.


Oh yeah. Forgot about that. He went to UCD or something, so switched to Leinster
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Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby mildlyinterested » October 12th, 2017, 3:43 pm

It's both a local and national problem, Leinster are responsible for the local issue and are trying to remedy it... to date not very successfully.

Often it's a case of moving a very good undersized backrow or prop to hooker and hoping they can develop their hooker skills - scrum/lineout.
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Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby mildlyinterested » October 12th, 2017, 3:44 pm

leinsterforever wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:
leinsterforever wrote:Jackman was the worst of the lot when it came to throwing. Munster have probably had the more accurate throwers over the last 15 years or so. Flannery was a master thrower obviously, but Duncan Casey is good as well. It was interesting how Best's throwing wasn't an issue at all when Plumtree was Ireland lineout coach because the whole set-piece was so well coached. If there's any weakness at all in the non-throwing side of things a bad thrower's issues can snowball due to his uncertainty.

Should McNulty be on the list above, or is that only hookers from Dublin or something?


McNulty came through Munster schools/underage, probably should include him now that he has spent 3 years in academy, plus another year in sub academy.


Oh yeah. Forgot about that. He went to UCD or something, so switched to Leinster


Yeah basically.
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Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby ormond lad » October 12th, 2017, 11:46 pm

Grumpy Old Man wrote:One thing that puzzles me - do the laws state that a hooker has to throw the ball into the lineout? If not, why don't more teams experiment with alternate line out throwers? The wings used do it in my day.
Nothing in law states the number two must throw in. It can be anyone
teams dont experiment as its become specialist that the hooker throws in.
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Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby RAILWAY1 » October 12th, 2017, 11:59 pm

It is true that other players can throw in to the line out, I remember a certain Bryan Williams (winger)throwing in at lineouts for the All Blacks without too much damage to their standard of play
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Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby riocard911 » October 13th, 2017, 10:12 am

Dave Cahill wrote:The problem is national rather than local. Cronin and Flannery came through very similar routes, one can throw, one can't. Sheehan and Keith Wood came through the Munster system, neither were more than serviceable at best out of touch. Shane Byrne came through the Leinster system, he was very accurate, but others haven't been. Jackman was in Leinster, England, Connacht and Leinster with little or no change. Best came through Ulster, John McDonald was dead balls accurate whilst Steve Smith wasn't so much. The reality is that Ireland doesn't produce hookers than have accuracy at lineout time as one of their prime weapons - flukes like Flannery or Mullet aside - and what we also don't have is any kind of interest in remedying the situation for some reason. There are guys in all four european squads for this weekend who if required to anything other than basic two or four ball are throw and hope merchants.


+1 :happy clapper:
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