Leinster & Hookers

A forum for true blue Leinster supporters to talk about and support their team

Moderator: moderators

Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby mildlyinterested » October 12th, 2017, 3:28 pm

leinsterforever wrote:Jackman was the worst of the lot when it came to throwing. Munster have probably had the more accurate throwers over the last 15 years or so. Flannery was a master thrower obviously, but Duncan Casey is good as well. It was interesting how Best's throwing wasn't an issue at all when Plumtree was Ireland lineout coach because the whole set-piece was so well coached. If there's any weakness at all in the non-throwing side of things a bad thrower's issues can snowball due to his uncertainty.

Should McNulty be on the list above, or is that only hookers from Dublin or something?


McNulty came through Munster schools/underage, probably should include him now that he has spent 3 years in academy, plus another year in sub academy.
mildlyinterested
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2446
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby Grumpy Old Man » October 12th, 2017, 3:36 pm

One thing that puzzles me - do the laws state that a hooker has to throw the ball into the lineout? If not, why don't more teams experiment with alternate line out throwers? The wings used do it in my day.
A proud Winsome Fluter
User avatar
Grumpy Old Man
Rob Kearney
 
Posts: 6603
Joined: February 22nd, 2006, 4:22 pm
Location: Home for the Slightly Bewildered

Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby Dave Cahill » October 12th, 2017, 3:38 pm

The problem is national rather than local. Cronin and Flannery came through very similar routes, one can throw, one can't. Sheehan and Keith Wood came through the Munster system, neither were more than serviceable at best out of touch. Shane Byrne came through the Leinster system, he was very accurate, but others haven't been. Jackman was in Leinster, England, Connacht and Leinster with little or no change. Best came through Ulster, John McDonald was dead balls accurate whilst Steve Smith wasn't so much. The reality is that Ireland doesn't produce hookers than have accuracy at lineout time as one of their prime weapons - flukes like Flannery or Mullet aside - and what we also don't have is any kind of interest in remedying the situation for some reason. There are guys in all four european squads for this weekend who if required to anything other than basic two or four ball are throw and hope merchants.
I have Bumbleflex
User avatar
Dave Cahill
Gordon D'Arcy
 
Posts: 21519
Joined: January 24th, 2006, 4:32 pm
Location: None of your damn business

Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby leinsterforever » October 12th, 2017, 3:43 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:
leinsterforever wrote:Jackman was the worst of the lot when it came to throwing. Munster have probably had the more accurate throwers over the last 15 years or so. Flannery was a master thrower obviously, but Duncan Casey is good as well. It was interesting how Best's throwing wasn't an issue at all when Plumtree was Ireland lineout coach because the whole set-piece was so well coached. If there's any weakness at all in the non-throwing side of things a bad thrower's issues can snowball due to his uncertainty.

Should McNulty be on the list above, or is that only hookers from Dublin or something?


McNulty came through Munster schools/underage, probably should include him now that he has spent 3 years in academy, plus another year in sub academy.


Oh yeah. Forgot about that. He went to UCD or something, so switched to Leinster
leinsterforever
Enlightened
 
Posts: 918
Joined: March 18th, 2015, 2:20 am

Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby mildlyinterested » October 12th, 2017, 3:43 pm

It's both a local and national problem, Leinster are responsible for the local issue and are trying to remedy it... to date not very successfully.

Often it's a case of moving a very good undersized backrow or prop to hooker and hoping they can develop their hooker skills - scrum/lineout.
mildlyinterested
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2446
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby mildlyinterested » October 12th, 2017, 3:44 pm

leinsterforever wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:
leinsterforever wrote:Jackman was the worst of the lot when it came to throwing. Munster have probably had the more accurate throwers over the last 15 years or so. Flannery was a master thrower obviously, but Duncan Casey is good as well. It was interesting how Best's throwing wasn't an issue at all when Plumtree was Ireland lineout coach because the whole set-piece was so well coached. If there's any weakness at all in the non-throwing side of things a bad thrower's issues can snowball due to his uncertainty.

Should McNulty be on the list above, or is that only hookers from Dublin or something?


McNulty came through Munster schools/underage, probably should include him now that he has spent 3 years in academy, plus another year in sub academy.


Oh yeah. Forgot about that. He went to UCD or something, so switched to Leinster


Yeah basically.
mildlyinterested
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2446
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby ormond lad » October 12th, 2017, 11:46 pm

Grumpy Old Man wrote:One thing that puzzles me - do the laws state that a hooker has to throw the ball into the lineout? If not, why don't more teams experiment with alternate line out throwers? The wings used do it in my day.
Nothing in law states the number two must throw in. It can be anyone
teams dont experiment as its become specialist that the hooker throws in.
ormond lad
Knowledgeable
 
Posts: 460
Joined: September 30th, 2010, 5:04 pm

Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby RAILWAY1 » October 12th, 2017, 11:59 pm

It is true that other players can throw in to the line out, I remember a certain Bryan Williams (winger)throwing in at lineouts for the All Blacks without too much damage to their standard of play
RAILWAY1
Learner
 
Posts: 82
Joined: February 5th, 2017, 1:41 am

Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby riocard911 » October 13th, 2017, 10:12 am

Dave Cahill wrote:The problem is national rather than local. Cronin and Flannery came through very similar routes, one can throw, one can't. Sheehan and Keith Wood came through the Munster system, neither were more than serviceable at best out of touch. Shane Byrne came through the Leinster system, he was very accurate, but others haven't been. Jackman was in Leinster, England, Connacht and Leinster with little or no change. Best came through Ulster, John McDonald was dead balls accurate whilst Steve Smith wasn't so much. The reality is that Ireland doesn't produce hookers than have accuracy at lineout time as one of their prime weapons - flukes like Flannery or Mullet aside - and what we also don't have is any kind of interest in remedying the situation for some reason. There are guys in all four european squads for this weekend who if required to anything other than basic two or four ball are throw and hope merchants.


+1 :happy clapper:
riocard911
Mullet
 
Posts: 1542
Joined: July 27th, 2015, 10:42 pm

Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby mildlyinterested » February 22nd, 2018, 12:36 pm

Leinster trying to fix the lineout throwing problem in the province...

https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/throwing-workshop/
mildlyinterested
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2446
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby mildlyinterested » February 28th, 2018, 3:43 pm

Kelleher was excellent for the 20's last weekend..

Also thought Bryan Byrne was very good for the seniors.
mildlyinterested
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2446
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby neiliog93 » March 9th, 2018, 6:43 pm

This is currently being discussed in the back row thread, but I'd thought I'd leave this here:

IMO our biggest NIQ need is hooker. We have three good to world class tight-heads with a strong production line behind them. We have two world class looseheads and E.Byrne and Dooley (who might leave) behind them. We'll never be allowed another second row unless it's short-term cover, and even with the departures our back row stock is excellent.

At hooker, Tracy isn't bad but probably just below international class, Cronin might leave (although we're hearing probably not) but is also 32 before the season's end, Strauss is ever more injury-prone and hasn't really been the same player since his health issues in 2014, and B.Byrne has had good moments but hasn't fully convinced, especially with his throwing. Kelleher looks a good prospect but it's still too early for him and McNulty definitely won't make it.

I would encourage people to look up Akker van der Merwe. As a 5'10" hooker, the 'Boks will never pick him, but he's almost as good as Cronin in the loose and consistent with his throwing. A stocky, physical customer, and wouldn't cost too much. Probably comparable to a younger Richardt Strauss (van der Merwe is 26), although bulkier and more dynamic in the loose. Thankfully, wouldn't be subject to the Kolpak rule!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FgFODnf9VE (he sits down Vermeulen at 2.04).
"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User avatar
neiliog93
Malcolm O'Kelly
 
Posts: 3608
Joined: April 12th, 2008, 11:42 am

Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby neiliog93 » March 9th, 2018, 6:45 pm

Before the rule change he would have been a good candidate for a project player.
"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User avatar
neiliog93
Malcolm O'Kelly
 
Posts: 3608
Joined: April 12th, 2008, 11:42 am

Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby CiaranIrl » March 10th, 2018, 11:50 am

I think Byrne will become top class personally.
“As you all know first prize is a Cadillac El Dorado. Anyone wanna see second prize? Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is you're fired.”
User avatar
CiaranIrl
Malcolm O'Kelly
 
Posts: 3200
Joined: April 27th, 2009, 11:23 am
Location: Dun Laoghaire

Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby Peg Leg » March 10th, 2018, 11:52 am

CiaranIrl wrote:I think Byrne will become top class personally.
Yeah, hard not to appreciate the progress there. I can see scannell and byrne sharing the green jersey.
"It was Mrs O'Leary's cow"
Daniel Sullivan
User avatar
Peg Leg
Devin Toner
 
Posts: 8829
Joined: February 1st, 2010, 6:08 pm
Location: Procrastinasia

Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby simonokeeffe » March 10th, 2018, 3:11 pm

Peg Leg wrote:
CiaranIrl wrote:I think Byrne will become top class personally.
Yeah, hard not to appreciate the progress there. I can see scannell and byrne sharing the green jersey.


wouldnt go that far meself but he has improved/hit form

Cronin is only a front row baby, Strauss is definitely circling the drain though sadly
Retired from babbling. Can be found on twittter @okeeffesimon
User avatar
simonokeeffe
Leo Cullen
 
Posts: 16777
Joined: July 21st, 2011, 3:04 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby A16 » March 10th, 2018, 10:49 pm

We have 4 (soon to be 5 once kelleher is integrated) good quality hookers. That’s probably too many to have on pro contracts at once, so I wonder who would leave in that scenario. Probably Strauss, but he’s still a fine player, and by no means too old, so it’s difficult to predict.
A16
Learner
 
Posts: 97
Joined: December 29th, 2017, 5:39 am

Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby mildlyinterested » March 12th, 2018, 12:55 pm

In the squad
Richardt Strauss[32] - 153 leinster caps, 17 irish caps
Sean Cronin[32] - 146 leinster caps, 60 irish caps
James Tracy[27] - 57 leinster caps, 6 irish caps
Bryan Byrne[24] - 25 leinster caps

Academy
Sean McNulty[22/UCD] - Year 3
Ronan Kelleher[20/Lansdowne] - Year 1, 11 under-20 caps

Sub Academy
Eoghan Clarke[Under-20/Wanderers/CBC Monkstown] - 2 under-20 caps
Dan Sheehan[Under-20/DUFC/Clongowes]
Richie Bergin[Under-19/UCD/St. Marys]

Elsewhere
Jason Harris Wright[29] - Bristol
Shane Delahunt[24] - Connacht
Tadgh McElroy[20] - Saracens
mildlyinterested
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2446
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby Oldschool » March 12th, 2018, 1:41 pm

neiliog93 wrote:This is currently being discussed in the back row thread, but I'd thought I'd leave this here:

IMO our biggest NIQ need is hooker. We have three good to world class tight-heads with a strong production line behind them. We have two world class looseheads and E.Byrne and Dooley (who might leave) behind them. We'll never be allowed another second row unless it's short-term cover, and even with the departures our back row stock is excellent.

At hooker, Tracy isn't bad but probably just below international class, Cronin might leave (although we're hearing probably not) but is also 32 before the season's end, Strauss is ever more injury-prone and hasn't really been the same player since his health issues in 2014, and B.Byrne has had good moments but hasn't fully convinced, especially with his throwing. Kelleher looks a good prospect but it's still too early for him and McNulty definitely won't make it.

I would encourage people to look up Akker van der Merwe. As a 5'10" hooker, the 'Boks will never pick him, but he's almost as good as Cronin in the loose and consistent with his throwing. A stocky, physical customer, and wouldn't cost too much. Probably comparable to a younger Richardt Strauss (van der Merwe is 26), although bulkier and more dynamic in the loose. Thankfully, wouldn't be subject to the Kolpak rule!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FgFODnf9VE (he sits down Vermeulen at 2.04).

Could one of feeder props convert. How difficult a thing is it for a prop to convert.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
User avatar
Oldschool
Shane Horgan
 
Posts: 11176
Joined: March 27th, 2008, 2:10 pm

Re: Leinster & Hookers

Postby mildlyinterested » March 12th, 2018, 1:53 pm

Van Der Merwe is as good a bet as anyway if we go down that route..

Both under-20's(Kelleher & Clarke) are converted props, can't see any of our current ones converting. Although I wonder if Ed Byrne would have back in the day if his brother was also not playing in the same position.
mildlyinterested
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2446
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

PreviousNext

Return to Leinster Addicts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: deco, hugonaut, jimbobjoe, riocard911, RoboProp, Shaymo68 and 11 guests