Leinster & Hookers

[Flash Gordon]

Why aren't we signing Andrew Hore? Even at 35 he could do a job for a year

Why would we do that? Cronin is on fire and strauss looks like he'll be back before the end of the season?

[simonokeeffe]

Fecker was sitting in the stands with the team v the Scarlets.

who is it then?

I'm not so sure he was.

When the camera showed the players in the stand a couple of people on here thought that the person sitting beside Leo Auva'a was the new hooker but I think that was actually Leo's brother who was visiting - they were sitting behind us at the Samoa game.

we're signing Leo's brother?

Just shows how easily rumours can be started - imagine if we put that up on Twitter, how long do you reckon before the papers would start reporting it as fact.

we just need to post it on one or two more boards

[Oldschool]

Why aren't we signing Andrew Hore? Even at 35 he could do a job for a year

Why would we do that? Cronin is on fire and strauss looks like he'll be back before the end of the season?

Because of what might happen if the "fire" goes out?

[neiliog93]

Apparently the residents of Shelbyville are all over Andrew Hore like a hot rash. Dougie Howlett no doubt pulling a few strings. We need Isa to move in there ASAP.

[realtalkrugby]

Weird to think that Brian Blaney, Leinster's starting hooker from what seems ages ago, it still only 32. And he's been retired for quite some time too. If ever there was an early bloomer who subsequently tailed off, it's him. That's probably around the peak age for a hooker as well. Although I do have distinct memories of drunken Leinster fans sarcastically chanting his name when he was definitely within earshot at a quiet Donnybrook. I'll never forget him for his shift against Toulouse in '06 anyway. Whatever happened to Dave Blaney though? Last I heard he was toiling away with Bristol.

I think we're pretty well set for hookers, obviously Strauss is out for some time but from what I've heard it's likely he'll be back for the 2014-15 season. Cronin is coming along nicely and Dundon is a very reliable third choice. Once Dundon moves on, we can always take back an improved Harris-Wright from Connacht, especially likely if Strauss can't recapture his old form. I can understand Connacht's frustration, but the reality is that if we need him we have a very good chance of getting him back.

Bryan Byrne hasn't been playing well over the last year or so from what I've seen (think he was dropped from the Ireland u-20's) but he was brilliant in school and is still very young, so can turn it around.

I have watched Bryan a fair bit this season as a tarf supporter and to be fair to him he's probably been one of the best players on the team. Against UCD with a lot of top prospects on show in Tracey Gilsenan Coughlan and Leavy, Byrne was by a country mile the best player on the pitch. I am told he was overlooked for the 20's 6 Nations last year on physicality however got re selected for the JWC and made a notable contribution with twin brother Ed in Irelands near victory of the baby blacks and in all other games. His throwing has been excellent of recent and his mobility around the park also making tonnes of tackles and carries. Haven't seen a hooker in so long having such great hands and feet honestly think he will be a major prospect in the future for Leinster.

[All Blacks nil]

Weird to think that Brian Blaney, Leinster's starting hooker from what seems ages ago, it still only 32. And he's been retired for quite some time too. If ever there was an early bloomer who subsequently tailed off, it's him. That's probably around the peak age for a hooker as well. Although I do have distinct memories of drunken Leinster fans sarcastically chanting his name when he was definitely within earshot at a quiet Donnybrook. I'll never forget him for his shift against Toulouse in '06 anyway. Whatever happened to Dave Blaney though? Last I heard he was toiling away with Bristol.

I think we're pretty well set for hookers, obviously Strauss is out for some time but from what I've heard it's likely he'll be back for the 2014-15 season. Cronin is coming along nicely and Dundon is a very reliable third choice. Once Dundon moves on, we can always take back an improved Harris-Wright from Connacht, especially likely if Strauss can't recapture his old form. I can understand Connacht's frustration, but the reality is that if we need him we have a very good chance of getting him back.

Bryan Byrne hasn't been playing well over the last year or so from what I've seen (think he was dropped from the Ireland u-20's) but he was brilliant in school and is still very young, so can turn it around.

I have watched Bryan a fair bit this season as a tarf supporter and to be fair to him he's probably been one of the best players on the team. Against UCD with a lot of top prospects on show in Tracey Gilsenan Coughlan and Leavy, Byrne was by a country mile the best player on the pitch. I am told he was overlooked for the 20's 6 Nations last year on physicality however got re selected for the JWC and made a notable contribution with twin brother Ed in Irelands near victory of the baby blacks and in all other games. His throwing has been excellent of recent and his mobility around the park also making tonnes of tackles and carries. Haven't seen a hooker in so long having such great hands and feet honestly think he will be a major prospect in the future for Leinster.

Can't imagine Harris - Wright would want to move back to Leinster if Strauss and Cronin are in residence. He is playing first team rugby now and I imagine would be loath to revert to third choice even at a much stronger team

[neiliog93]

Can't imagine Harris - Wright would want to move back to Leinster if Strauss and Cronin are in residence. He is playing first team rugby now and I imagine would be loath to revert to third choice even at a much stronger team[/quote]

Fair point.

[goreyguy]

Don't see JHW moving back to Leinster with Cronin and Strauss here, which is fair enough.

But if one was to leave I wouldn't be surprised..

Until then we have one project in Tracy and a talented young player in Byrne as depth.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Does anyone know why JHW actually left? I thought he was looking very good in his last season but the coaches didn't seem to have much faith in him.

[goreyguy]

we had just signed cronin and we had strauss, he wanted to get more experience and playing time..

he needed the year away at bristol, really benefited him on the field and off.

[AdamK]

He was actually a great hooker for us, I actually thought he'd persist and be our 2nd choice, but I think he was clever enough to see what was happening and with Cronin coming in it was a good choice.

[goreyguy]

Couldn't blame him he is only 2 years younger than both Cronin and Strauss. Staying here he would have been firmly third choice..

Think moving away really helped him learn what was required of a pro rugby player off the field too.

The academy setup is great and all but the lads do have a rather cushy setup, a year away from dublin and toiling away at that level was probably the making of him.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Oh I had it in my head that Cronin signed a year earlier than he actually did and that they'd be sharing game time, that certainly makes sense though alright.

Even before that though I remember his contract only went up as far as Christmas/January in his last season and was extended to the end of the season. No doubt he's improved since and the time away from here has benefited him but I never quite got why he wasn't trusted more.

[mildlyinterested]

Nearly 4 years later and Leinster still somewhat struggling to develop homegrown hookers.

At underage level they are trying to get more talented athletes playing the position from what i've seen.

[Flash Gordon]

Nearly 4 years later and Leinster still somewhat struggling to develop homegrown hookers.

At underage level they are trying to get more talented athletes playing the position from what i've seen.

We've had 2 international hookers on the books since they were in their early 20's and Tracey has already been capped for Ireland. The record isn't that bad in fairness.

[mildlyinterested]

Nearly 4 years later and Leinster still somewhat struggling to develop homegrown hookers.

At underage level they are trying to get more talented athletes playing the position from what i've seen.

We've had 2 international hookers on the books since they were in their early 20's and Tracey has already been capped for Ireland. The record isn't that bad in fairness.

Their record at developing top quality hookers is not great, which is fair enough considering how well the academy has done at developing players at every other position.

Strauss is an internationally capped hooker, but it's a long time since he was near top form.
Byrne has been on the books at Leinster for a long time, but still struggles with the basics of the position.
Tracy flashes top quality, but is inconsistent.

Given the player base in Dublin alone you'd think they have developed more decent pro level hookers than they to date this decade:

Jason Harris-Wright(29)
Tom Sexton(29) - out of pro rugby
James Tracy(26)
David Doyle(26) - retired due to injury
Bryan Byrne(24)
Shane Delahunt(23) - Connacht - non Leinster academy.
Sean McNulty(22) - Munster underage player
Tadgh McElroy(20) - Saracens Academy
Ronan Kelleher(19)

[mildlyinterested]

U20 Hookers playing AIL
Ronan Kelleher(St. Michaels/Lansdowne) - converted prop in academy.
Eoghan Clarke(CBC Monkstown/Wanderers) - converted prop.
Cathal Duff(North Kildare/Naas) - converted prop.
Dan Sheehan(Clongowes/DUFC)
Stephen McLaughlin(Blackrock/Blackrock)

* this was a double post so thought i'd fill it with some info.

[Flash Gordon]

Nearly 4 years later and Leinster still somewhat struggling to develop homegrown hookers.

At underage level they are trying to get more talented athletes playing the position from what i've seen.

We've had 2 international hookers on the books since they were in their early 20's and Tracey has already been capped for Ireland. The record isn't that bad in fairness.

Their record at developing top quality hookers is not great, which is fair enough considering how well the academy has done at developing players at every other position.

Strauss is an internationally capped hooker, but it's a long time since he was near top form.
Byrne has been on the books at Leinster for a long time, but still struggles with the basics of the position.
Tracy flashes top quality, but is inconsistent.

Given the player base in Dublin alone you'd think they have developed more decent pro level hookers than they to date this decade:

Jason Harris-Wright(29)
Tom Sexton(29) - out of pro rugby
James Tracy(26)
David Doyle(26) - retired due to injury
Bryan Byrne(24)
Shane Delahunt(23) - Connacht - non Leinster academy.
Tadgh McElroy(20) - Saracens Academy
Ronan Kelleher(19)

Stauss started the Champions Cup semi last year - although our lineout was pants of course......I think Cronin and Strauss's presence from an early age has been a development issue. They aren't D'Arcy and O'Driscoll but we had nothing coming through for years in he center because of their presence. Even for Ireland the impact was felt with a lad like Andy Trimble who has 70 caps for Ireland shifting from center to wing to give himself a shot at international caps.

The more bemusing thing for me has been the continued theme of Irish hookers not being able to throw. This goes back Ciaran Fitzgerald and Keith Wood but we've seen it with Frankie Shehan (remember him being hauled off before half time for Ireland), Rory Best who could forget his nightmare with the Lions and with both Cronin and Strauss (and now Tracey). It's hard to understand as you'd think it would be a matter of practice but I just wonder if there's something fundamentally technically wrong with the way we're coaching hookers.

[mildlyinterested]

Stauss started the Champions Cup semi last year - although our lineout was pants of course......I think Cronin and Strauss's presence from an early age has been a development issue. They aren't D'Arcy and O'Driscoll but we had nothing coming through for years in he center because of their presence. Even for Ireland the impact was felt with a lad like Andy Trimble who has 70 caps for Ireland shifting from center to wing to give himself a shot at international caps.

The more bemusing thing for me has been the continued theme of Irish hookers not being able to throw. This goes back Ciaran Fitzgerald and Keith Wood but we've seen it with Frankie Shehan (remember him being hauled off before half time for Ireland), Rory Best who could forget his nightmare with the Lions and with both Cronin and Strauss (and now Tracey). It's hard to understand as you'd think it would be a matter of practice but I just wonder if there's something fundamentally technically wrong with the way we're coaching hookers.

Well Trimble was a natural wing, he didn't have passing game to play centre. Better example is maybe Luke Fitz.

Flannery could certainly throw and Scannell seems to be pretty good at it too. But yes certainly the majority of irish hookers struggle with that way too much for being professionals. I'd almost certainly think it's how the hookers are coached to throw.

Even if Cronin/Strauss are blocking hookers at Leinster, you'd think they be some pushing through the academy and either heading elsewhere or becoming squad players.. that hasn't happened to date this decade.

[leinsterforever]

Jackman was the worst of the lot when it came to throwing. Munster have probably had the more accurate throwers over the last 15 years or so. Flannery was a master thrower obviously, but Duncan Casey is good as well. It was interesting how Best's throwing wasn't an issue at all when Plumtree was Ireland lineout coach because the whole set-piece was so well coached. If there's any weakness at all in the non-throwing side of things a bad thrower's issues can snowball due to his uncertainty.

Should McNulty be on the list above, or is that only hookers from Dublin or something?