Matts gone

[leinster4life13]

Why the f%~k would he have wanted to stay, with the public abuse he got. Another year of that sh!t? Anyway, maybe it's something that a the next coach can think about before he takes the job. Get it wrong and expect the hounding.

"toto, I have a feeling we are not in the civil service anymore", its the lot of a coach.

[COYBIB]

It's been said that senior players met with the professional board thingy majig, whether that was to instigate movements against MOC, or if it's true that MOC instigated it and they were called in for their opinion, something was rotten with the Shane Jennings scenario, the fact that he was excluded from the match day squad for his final ever home game after everything he gave the province was borderline disgraceful - and it was against Treviso - it's not like Jennings couldn't have done a job for the 6 minutes Conan got, who was on the bench instead of him. And yes, under normal circumstances we are all delighted when these young lads are getting game time - but this was Jennings last ever home game and he and the fans deserved better - To put it politely, it sums up the extent to which MOC was completely out of touch with Leinster - assuming Jennings saying he wasn't playing because he fell out with MOC isn't true - as to rob a player of his send off at the end of his career at his home province in front of fans who consider him a hero, a couple of weeks before you're out the door yourself would just make you an [expletive].

[Dave Cahill]

Sometimes something happens and you can't understand why, then you think about and other, similar things that have happened, and suddenly it all falls into place.

[simonokeeffe]

What I find interesting is that MoC is, by all accounts a jolly nice chap and all that, but he worked along side Dick c~*k at Leicester. DC has to be one serious hard case in terms of a head coach, and therefore you might have anticipated some of that steel and drive to have been part of MoC's DNA too. I wonder if that was what was expected of him, and whilst he was never going to be Joe from a control and analytics point of view, I wonder of they expected a tighter reign ?

The players liked him but I wonder if that was because he was the complete opposite of Joe ? Its all very well to like your pally manager, but I think its plain to see that the players seem to thrive on the tough love from Joe! A lesson that hopefully the suits at Leinster will learn from with their next appointment.

I for one am pleased he is moving on - our results over this past 2 years and manner of play speak for themselves, and whilst the players have to take responsibility for their in-actions too, its the coach who carries the can.

Cockerill was bad cop, MOC was good cop

whats bugging me is the column inches being devoted to the mob driving him out and unfair comparisons to Schmidt
No one is upset we're not winning back to back European Cups and Toulon have looked nigh on untouchable, people were unhappy that a squad where the average player is a 20 cap international could only manage 4 away wins all season

these soccer comparisons of hiring and firing are BS but if board reckon MOC cost them 3 thousand season ticket holders they had to act

[jezzer]

Everyone's peddling the line that the "let-them-eat-cake" Leinster bandwagon got Matt the sack for not being Leinstertaining enough.

Even Reggie "I'm not bitter" Corrigan was at it. These post-mortems trying to find some deeper truth to the situation will just die away, because the story that the fans got him sacked so they could be served a better product is just so juicy.

It wasn't that the gameplan looked shite to watch, the gameplan was shite.

[fourthirtythree]

It wasn't that the gameplan looked shite to watch, the gameplan was shite.

In a pithy sentence, that is it.

It's like when people argued- look at Schmidt, you need to kick to win games, but we were losing....

[hugonaut]

Not really on topic, but I've been taken aback by the number and manner of comments from senior/recent players [namely Sean O'Brien, Drico, Jenno and Trev Hogan] throwing the so-called 'depth' players under the bus and essentially blaming their poor run of results during the Six Nations as a major reason for O'Connor getting the sack.

I don't think it's either fair, pragmatic or even particularly reasonable. Singling out guys for criticism is obviously a very quick way to break down team spirit, but so is essentially blanket-accusing 27 players or so of not pulling their weight, of being slack and complacent. If you don't name names, you're leaving everyone open to suspicion.

Just to further my point, here are the teams we put out over that period:

14-16 vs Dragons
[15-9]: D. Kearney, McFadden, Teo, Reid, Fanning, Gopperth, L. McGrath
[1-8]: Bent, Strauss, Furlong, Denton, Douglas, Ryan, Jennings, Conan
[16-23]: Dooley, Dundon, Hagan, McCarthy, van der Flier, Cooney, Marsh, Fitzgerald

29-8 vs Zebre
[15-9]: Kirchner, McFadden, Teo, Darcy, Fitzgerald, Gopperth, Reddan
[1-8]: Bent, Dundon, Moore, McCarthy, Douglas, Ryan, Jennings, Conan
[16-23]: Healy, Cronin, Furlong, Molony, Leavy, Reddan, Marsh, D. Kearney

9-9 @ Ospreys
[15-9]: Kirchner, McFadden, Teo, Darcy, D. Kearney, Gopperth, Boss
[1-8]: Bent, Strauss, Furlong, Denton, Douglas, Ruddock, van der Flier, Ryan
[16-23]: Dooley, Dundon, Burke-Flynn, Marshall, Leavy, L. McGrath, Reid, Fanning

13-23 @ Scarlets
[15-9]: Kirchner, McFadden, Teo, Darcy, Fitzgerald, Gopperth, Boss
[1-8]: Healy, Cronin, Moore, McCarthy, Douglas, Ruddock, Ryan, Conan
[16-23]: Bent, Strauss, Furlong, Denton, van der Flier, Boss, Reid, D. Kearney

Is it Michael Bent's fault then? He started three of those games ... and completely pulled our fat out of the fire in the first two games of the European Cup, when he started at tighthead and held his own as the anchor of the scrum. As our third choice loosehead he's had his best season at the club by some distance. Was Ferg uncompetitive and half-arsed in those games? He played all four of them. What about Darcy, the most capped player in Leinster history and a guy who pretty much everyone has been writing paeans to in recent weeks? Did he not know "what it takes to win trophies"? He started three of those games.

Or is it the youngsters who are slack? Should we blame a 22 year old tighthead who has been [in my opinion] our best young player this season? Or our 22 year old No8 whom his peers voted as the best young player in the club this season? Maybe it's Richardt Strauss's fault, the guy who came back from a hole in the heart to play. Is he coasting? Or was it Jenno or Rhys not offering enough leadership? Or the other couple of 20/21 year old academy backrows that featured fleetingly?

And then what about crawling past Treviso – a team who have won 3 of 28 games this season – 10-0 at home in the RDS with Rob Kearney, Madigan, Jack McGrath, Mike Ross, Dev Toner, Sean O'Brien, Jordi Murphy and Jamie Heaslip all in the starting line-up. Who gets the blame for that one? That was an abortion of a performance with pretty much all 'our internationals' out there. What about playing up in Ravenhill and failing to score a single point after the seventh minute of the game?

I'm not privy to the personal interactions between the players, nor do I see how they behave in training – who's making themselves a nuisance at every breakdown, who's sticking around for extras etc. – so maybe I don't have a bean at all and O'Connor just wasn't the problem. Maybe he was really 'innovative' and 'a good technician' who just happened to see the skillset of pretty much the entire squad go backwards, and the completely turgid tactics in evidence were down to 'players being empowered to make their own decisions on the pitch'.

But from the outside looking in it presented as a guy who consistently failed to get the group of players he had entrusted to him playing anywhere near their best rugby, which was his job. I don't hate the guy at all, or blame him for everything that has gone wrong this season. He seems like a nice fella, as I've often said in the past. But it seems pretty obvious that he has a major share of the responsibility, and it's more than a little bizarre to see the lengths that quite a few people are going to in order not to say a bad word about him. It brings nothing to mind more than the old story of the emperor's new clothes.

[Xanthippe]

Not really on topic, but I've been taken aback by the number and manner of comments from senior/recent players [namely Sean O'Brien, Drico, Jenno and Trev Hogan] throwing the so-called 'depth' players under the bus and essentially blaming their poor run of results during the Six Nations as a major reason for O'Connor getting the sack.
.

I've been very disappointed to hear, in particular, O'Brien and Rob Kearney criticise the 'younger' players - they are both Leinster vice captains this season and both chose to speak to the media about what they saw as player's failures.

I thought at the start of the season it was a little strange to choose the captain and vice captains from players who were guaranteed to be away on international duty and now it looks like it was a bad decision. If the team is going to be looked at as two distinct groups then each group needs to have their own vice captain. For next season I'd replace Kearney with Luke McGrath or else O'Brien with Dippy, Conan or Locky.

[COYBIB]

Everyone's peddling the line that the "let-them-eat-cake" Leinster bandwagon got Matt the sack for not being Leinstertaining enough.

Even Reggie "I'm not bitter" Corrigan was at it. These post-mortems trying to find some deeper truth to the situation will just die away, because the story that the fans got him sacked so they could be served a better product is just so juicy.

It wasn't that the gameplan looked shite to watch, the gameplan was shite.

It's so fu**ing satisfying and vindicating to show those idiots in the print media (who are reading this right now looking for stories to sell as their own in their fraudulent existence, only to bite off the hand that feeds their barely justifiable career) that they were absolutely, one hundred percent wrong, and all the "clueless fans" have been vindicated by the presumably equally brainless guardians of Leinster rugby (in their view - because they share the same view as those clueless fans, right?).

Sure they'll blame it on twitter and season tickets (all 100 people who followed that persons "MOC OUT" campaign, and the suggestion on this forum of a hashtag that never got noticed - call in the STOP THE SOCIAL MEDIA CAMPAIGN brigade), but the bottom line is that everything these "soccer fans" complained about was spot on, and you'll find far better analysis of reality from fans on forums than you will from lads with a degree in English Literature who were assigned to sports and suddenly considered themselves an "expert" overnight (Franno aside - he wouldn't manage a degree) and t'internet folks as clueless ... yet I'd be interested in hearing many of their own lifelong experiences with rugby versus many of those who would be interested enough to maintain constant anaylsis, season after season on a forum (the blow ins generally don't consist of the 20 - 30 people who post on a fan site that hacks use to establish the mood of spoilt, clueless Leinster fans).

As I said before, never have sporting journalists so misrepresented and misjudged a sporting situation in my experience as they did this one .... and there isn't a single article without an element of blame for an incompetent managers dismissal being attributed in one way or another to "the fans" .. get off the forums and analyse the sport and show a bit of competence, you idiots.

[Peg Leg]

The week after Tony ward (professional rugby journalist) told us he had no interest in our professional league, he tells it like it is. Matt's firing is just another step towards the soccer type for rugby...... Or is that professionalism Tony? God forbid accountability ever taking hold in professional sport Tony.
He's not the worst of them and he does a lot for the game, but the provincial game is PROFESSIONAL.

[simonokeeffe]

although Matt going saved Heaslip from possibly becoming untenable as captain next season if Sexton kept being the one cracking the whip but anyone else feel, partially with this criticism of the younger players that we need a new captain? Rhys Ruddock who I have in mind in particular

will be a problem position during RWC, Locky maybe for that period?

[RoboProp]

Tony Ward if you are reading this, please get that gap in your teeth sorted. Thank you

Gerry Thornley, if you are reading this please consider a complete image overhaul you look bedraggled man.

Ah silly season

[Peg Leg]

Soul glo could step into right back into that role, although I do prefer someone from the pack.

[hugonaut]

although Matt going saved Heaslip from possibly becoming untenable as captain next season if Sexton kept being the one cracking the whip but anyone else feel, partially with this criticism of the younger players that we need a new captain? Rhys Ruddock who I have in mind in particular

will be a problem position during RWC, Locky maybe for that period?

I disagree Simon. I thought that Jamie was far and away our best player this season and that his leadership of the team was very evident. I was much more impressed with his captaincy this season than during the period when we didn't lose a game when we captained the side [when Leo was the named club captain].

Sexton doesn't strike me as a captain – he's all stick and no carrot. It doesn't mean he's not a leader, but from all the evidence I've heard/seen/read, he's too volatile, grumpy and prone to criticising other team mates too frequently to make an effective captain.

[dropkick]

Schmidt must have been already peed off by MOC's refusal to play Madigan.

Was he? But even Schmidt won't start Madigan at 10 when it comes to it.

If you were Schmidt you would be hoping that Madigan gets regular games playing 10. He was hardly seen in the 10 jersey all season. What did Nucifora and the IRFU also make of it that an average player like Gopperth was keeping Madigan - Irelands second choice 10 - from playing 10. MOC was certainly doing them no favours. It could have cost Ireland a 6 nations as the margins were very tight.

Although they couldn't say anything I suspect they were not too happy about that and thats part of the reason they came out against MOC when he whinged about Ireland call ups.

[Dave Cahill]

If Schmidt wanted him played at 10 he would have been played at 10, its as simple as that. They don't do it very often, but the national coach has the power to dictate selection to his provincial subordinates.

[simonokeeffe]

although Matt going saved Heaslip from possibly becoming untenable as captain next season if Sexton kept being the one cracking the whip but anyone else feel, partially with this criticism of the younger players that we need a new captain? Rhys Ruddock who I have in mind in particular

will be a problem position during RWC, Locky maybe for that period?

I disagree Simon. I thought that Jamie was far and away our best player this season and that his leadership of the team was very evident. I was much more impressed with his captaincy this season than during the period when we didn't lose a game when we captained the side [when Leo was the named club captain].

Sexton doesn't strike me as a captain – he's all stick and no carrot. It doesn't mean he's not a leader, but from all the evidence I've heard/seen/read, he's too volatile, grumpy and prone to criticising other team mates too frequently to make an effective captain.

the now academic worry was Sexton criticising coach/training/tactics

captaincy during RWC does look problematic though

[Oldschool]

If Schmidt wanted him played at 10 he would have been played at 10, its as simple as that. They don't do it very often, but the national coach has the power to dictate selection to his provincial subordinates.

I disagree. The national coach would only dictate or want to be seen to dictate selection in extreme circumstances.
It's far more in his interest to encourage co-operation in the hope that it will be reciprocated and that everyone would pull together.
In addition a schedule of access to provincial players would have been set out so that those coaches knew what to plan for.
MOC knew all this before he signed up or should have because it was common knowledge. The PRL had been bitching about it for long enough.
MOC set out to provoke the situation and quite frankly got what he deserved.
MOC chose to highlight player availability as the major issue and yet failed totally to address the things that were under his control.
Schmidt knows that the more successful the provinces are the better for Ireland because his players are getting exposure to a higher level of rugby more frequently. It's not in his or anybody else's interest to sabotage that, so MOC was offside plain and simple.
That's why he doesn't deserve much sympathy, he didn't do his job.
As regards Madigan, I'm sure Schmidt did want to play him at ten (one of the most difficult positions to play in). Picking him at 10 would have been a punt and as you should know it is something Schmidt wouldn't readily do. He gave Keatley his shot purely on that basis. He picked a player who had been playing the position all season.

[Dave Cahill]

If Schmidt wanted him played at 10 he would have been played at 10, its as simple as that. They don't do it very often, but the national coach has the power to dictate selection to his provincial subordinates.

I disagree. The national coach would only dictate or want to be seen to dictate selection in extreme circumstances.
It's far more in his interest to encourage co-operation in the hope that it will be reciprocated and that everyone would pull together.

Tell that to Ulster.

The reality is that, unlike Payne, Madigan at 10 isn't enough of an issue to exercise Schmidt. He's not that bothered where he plays as he won't be starting him at 10 unless Sexton, Jackson and Keatley fall down the stairs.

[Oldschool]

If Schmidt wanted him played at 10 he would have been played at 10, its as simple as that. They don't do it very often, but the national coach has the power to dictate selection to his provincial subordinates.

I disagree. The national coach would only dictate or want to be seen to dictate selection in extreme circumstances.
It's far more in his interest to encourage co-operation in the hope that it will be reciprocated and that everyone would pull together.

Tell that to Ulster.

The reality is that, unlike Payne, Madigan at 10 isn't enough of an issue to exercise Schmidt. He's not that bothered where he plays as he won't be starting him at 10 unless Sexton, Jackson and Keatley fall down the stairs.

You obviously don't think replacing the greatest 13 of all time is an extreme circumstance, especially given that he was also going to have to find a replacement for a 12 who would have graced any international team. I didn't hear the Ulster coach doing as much bitching as MOC either.
Keatley won't be in the running. Sexton and Jackson have had injury issues. So of course the national coach would want an Irish qualified 10 playing for Leinster whenever possible. MOC set his course totally against that without any evident compromise.