Matts gone

[Dave Cahill]

You obviously don't think replacing the greatest 13 of all time is an extreme circumstance - I didn't hear the Ulster coach doing as much bitching as MOC either.
Keatley won't be in the running. Sexton and Jackson have had injury issues. So of course the national coach would want an Irish qualified 10 playing for Leinster whenever possible. MOC set his course totally against that without any evident compromise.

Rubbish. Madigan played in any number of, particularly big, games at 10, but played like what he was, a pretty mediocre outhalf who (almost) got by because he is an exceptional footballer. Whilst the national coach would want an Irish qualified 10 playing for Leinster, the error you're making is that you're assuming that Schmidt sees Madigan as that guy. He doesn't. He has never, not once, missed an opportunity to not pick him himself, so he's not going to to blame others for doing the same

[hugonaut]

You obviously don't think replacing the greatest 13 of all time is an extreme circumstance - I didn't hear the Ulster coach doing as much bitching as MOC either.
Keatley won't be in the running. Sexton and Jackson have had injury issues. So of course the national coach would want an Irish qualified 10 playing for Leinster whenever possible. MOC set his course totally against that without any evident compromise.

Rubbish. Madigan played in any number of, particularly big, games at 10, but played like what he was, a pretty mediocre outhalf who (almost) got by because he is an exceptional footballer. Whilst the national coach would want an Irish qualified 10 playing for Leinster, the error you're making is that you're assuming that Schmidt sees Madigan as that guy. He doesn't. He has never, not once, missed an opportunity to not pick him himself, so he's not going to to blame others for doing the same

Sure he picked him at No10 against Georgia last November with Keatley on the bench and Jackson not in the squad.

[Oldschool]

You obviously don't think replacing the greatest 13 of all time is an extreme circumstance - I didn't hear the Ulster coach doing as much bitching as MOC either.
Keatley won't be in the running. Sexton and Jackson have had injury issues. So of course the national coach would want an Irish qualified 10 playing for Leinster whenever possible. MOC set his course totally against that without any evident compromise.

Rubbish. Madigan played in any number of, particularly big, games at 10, but played like what he was, a pretty mediocre outhalf who (almost) got by because he is an exceptional footballer. Whilst the national coach would want an Irish qualified 10 playing for Leinster, the error you're making is that you're assuming that Schmidt sees Madigan as that guy. He doesn't. He has never, not once, missed an opportunity to not pick him himself, so he's not going to to blame others for doing the same

It's a lot more simple than that. Joe just wanted options or insurance. That's why he wanted Madigan playing at 10. Sexton was out, Jackson was out - Who's left?
Keatley and somebody who has hardly played the position all season.
That last bit is just your opinion unless Joe has sat you down and told you that's the way he sees it. BTW who did Joe want to play at 10 for Leinster, for the last two seasons?

[Dave Cahill]

You obviously don't think replacing the greatest 13 of all time is an extreme circumstance - I didn't hear the Ulster coach doing as much bitching as MOC either.
Keatley won't be in the running. Sexton and Jackson have had injury issues. So of course the national coach would want an Irish qualified 10 playing for Leinster whenever possible. MOC set his course totally against that without any evident compromise.

Rubbish. Madigan played in any number of, particularly big, games at 10, but played like what he was, a pretty mediocre outhalf who (almost) got by because he is an exceptional footballer. Whilst the national coach would want an Irish qualified 10 playing for Leinster, the error you're making is that you're assuming that Schmidt sees Madigan as that guy. He doesn't. He has never, not once, missed an opportunity to not pick him himself, so he's not going to to blame others for doing the same

It's a lot more simple than that. Joe just wanted options or insurance. That's why he wanted Madigan playing at 10. Sexton was out, Jackson was out - Who's left?
Keatley and somebody who has hardly played the position all season.
That last bit is just your opinion unless Joe has sat you down and told you that's the way he sees it. BTW who did Joe want to play at 10 for Leinster, for the last two seasons?

I'd say he would have wanted the player he signed himself to replace Johnny Sexton playing there.

[the spoofer]

Keatley fell down the stair today, metaphorically speaking.

[Raydollard]

Madigan is undoubtedly Joe's second choice number 10. Also neither Keatley nor Jackson were in any way impressive in the Pro 12 semis.

Moc made a huge mistake in dumping on Madigan for the best part of two seasons and playing the useless Gopperth. He reaped the rewards for his self-inflicted failures as manager.

[Dave Cahill]

Madigan is undoubtedly Joe's second choice number 10.

Which is why he started him against Italy in the Six Nations, when his first choice number 10 was injured.

[neiliog93]

Madigan is undoubtedly Joe's second choice number 10.

Which is why he started him against Italy in the Six Nations, when his first choice number 10 was injured.

That was only because he hadn't had any game time at 10. When he'd had a bit more time at 10 Madigan did start against Georgia in the Autumn. Also, if it had been the Scotland game where flair was needed more than control (the latter was the case in the away match against Italy), Madigan would have got the nod. Schmidt said as much at the time. Keatley was very poor today, Madigan was electric in one of his only recent run-outs at 10 against Edinburgh, and Paddy Jackson remains very unconvincing. Madigan has a good shot at going to the RWC as back-up 10.

[Dave Cahill]

Madigan is undoubtedly Joe's second choice number 10.

Which is why he started him against Italy in the Six Nations, when his first choice number 10 was injured.

That was only because he hadn't had any game time at 10. When he'd had a bit more time at 10 Madigan did start against Georgia in the Autumn. Also, if it had been the Scotland game where flair was needed more than control (the latter was the case in the away match against Italy), Madigan would have got the nod. Schmidt said as much at the time. Keatley was very poor today, Madigan was electric in one of his only recent run-outs at 10 against Edinburgh, and Paddy Jackson remains very unconvincing. Madigan has a good shot at going to the RWC as back-up 10.

Apart of course from the two inter-pros against Munster and Ulster in the run up to the Six Nations. In fact, he had less game time at 10 running up to the Georgia game. The more Joe sees him at 10, the less inclined he is to pick him there.

And a home game during the Autumn Internationals against tier 2 opposition that you're made play by World Rugby isn't quite the same as an away match in the Six Nations.

[Oldschool]

I'd say he would have wanted the player he signed himself to replace Johnny Sexton playing there.

Far more likely that he signed Gopperth as backup and was quite happy to continue with Madigan's development as a 10.
Then fate stepped in.

[mikey]

I'd say he would have wanted the player he signed himself to replace Johnny Sexton playing there.

Far more likely that he signed Gopperth as backup and was quite happy to continue with Madigan's development as a 10.
Then THE HAND OF MoC stepped in.

Fixed that for you!

[curates_egg]

Wasting your time lads: he is always right and anyone who doesn't agree is an idiot.

[Dave Cahill]

Wasting your time lads: he is always right and anyone who doesn't agree is an idiot.

Why don't you set up a twitter hashtag so. you could use #truthout

Or you could deal with the facts of the situation.

For example - how about dealing with the Italy selection?

Or that Madigan had played at outhalf in two high profile matches almost immediately previous to that - not as has been posited that he wasn't being played there.

Or that Schmidt in three years in charge signed two and a half outhalves despite having the Lions number 10 as his first choice.

Or that the last three Leinster coaches when presented with an alternative have taken that alternative.

The reality is that despite his skills as a rugby player, he is not the kind of outhalf that a top team either at European or International level can put any faith in for an extended period of time. Hes a fanstastically skilled footballer, but thats not the same thing as an effective one.

However playing beside Sexton at centire for (Ireland and) Leinster will give him the opportunity to use those skills to their best advantage - further out with more space and more time he can cause havoc

[simonokeeffe]

Fangio has a piece on the sacking today, inference is it was one sided mutual decision but not picking/using academy players was a bone of contention too

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Wasting your time lads: he is always right and anyone who doesn't agree is an idiot.

Why don't you set up a twitter hashtag so. you could use #truthout

Or you could deal with the facts of the situation.

For example - how about dealing with the Italy selection?

Or that Madigan had played at outhalf in two high profile matches almost immediately previous to that - not as has been posited that he wasn't being played there.

Or that Schmidt in three years in charge signed two and a half outhalves despite having the Lions number 10 as his first choice.

Or that the last three Leinster coaches when presented with an alternative have taken that alternative.

The reality is that despite his skills as a rugby player, he is not the kind of outhalf that a top team either at European or International level can put any faith in for an extended period of time. Hes a fanstastically skilled footballer, but thats not the same thing as an effective one.

However playing beside Sexton at centire for (Ireland and) Leinster will give him the opportunity to use those skills to their best advantage - further out with more space and more time he can cause havoc

Lots to argue in that spin and I have done before so not overly bothered again but I would say a couple of things.

One is that he didn't play against Italy because he failed his audition for the Wolfhounds...which he played in because he hadnt been playing ten which clearly made that gig more difficult.

Secondly, the coach who wasn't picking him at ten for the last two seasons has, to all intents and purposes, been sacked because of his inability to get decisions like that right.

Lastly, you're totally ignoring all of his involvement with Ireland during Joe's reign. The spin on the Leinster stuff is ridiculous. Of course he was behind Sexton the whole time and you go back as far as Cheika when the guy had only turned 21 in March of the season Cheika left.

[Dave Cahill]

Lots to argue in that spin and I have done before so not overly bothered again but I would say a couple of things.

One is that he didn't play against Italy because he failed his audition for the Wolfhounds...which he played in because he hadnt been playing ten which clearly made that gig more difficult. Except against Ulster and Munster - I had forgetten about the Wolfhounds, so thats three big games to get up to speed - how many does he actually need?????

Secondly, the coach who wasn't picking him at ten for the last two seasons has, to all intents and purposes, been sacked because of his inability to get decisions like that right.

Lastly, you're totally ignoring all of his involvement with Ireland during Joe's reign. The spin on the Leinster stuff is ridiculous. Of course he was behind Sexton the whole time and you go back as far as Cheika when the guy had only turned 21 in March of the season Cheika left. He was 9 months older than McKinley and had less serious injuries, but McKinley was still the one that many people, including yourself IIRC, wanted to push on and appeared to have taken the lead

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I did think McKinley was better, but that's totally irrelevant to how coaches see Madigan now. Doubt Joe thinks about McKinley when he's picking Madigan to bench for Ireland

[artaneboy]

Madigan is undoubtedly Joe's second choice number 10. Also neither Keatley nor Jackson were in any way impressive in the Pro 12 semis.

Moc made a huge mistake in dumping on Madigan for the best part of two seasons and playing the useless Gopperth. He reaped the rewards for his self-inflicted failures as manager.

Listen- your love of Madigan as a 10 is well attested. But there's no way you can make a case that he's been hard done by by Matt when Joe never lost an opportunity to demonstrate his agreement that Ian was- at best, a make-do out half option. Ian is a great footballer, but stands danger of becoming the Rodney Marsh of Leinster Rugby. And for those who don't remember that talented wastrel- that's not good... Not saying Ian is a wastrel, mind!

[leinster4life13]

However playing beside Sexton at centire for (Ireland and) Leinster will give him the opportunity to use those skills to their best advantage - further out with more space and more time he can cause havoc

Madness, if you think Mads has a long term future at twelve, Im ringing Dawson and getting myself a contract. He brings nothing to the table as a twelve, its this cr@p idea coaches have that they need a 2nd five eights, as opposed to a proper twelve, it rarely works, why waste everyones time on failed concept. Madigan is a ten, end of story, all his best games have come with him in the ten channel. we might as well release him if we going to piss about with notion of converting him into a twelve.

[Hornet]

but stands danger of becoming the Rodney Marsh of Leinster Rugby. And for those who don't remember that talented wastrel- that's not good... Not saying Ian is a wastrel, mind!

He wasn't that bad in 1967.