Matts gone

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Re: Matts gone

Postby Oldschool » May 21st, 2015, 7:28 pm

This would seem to have been as much an IRFU decision as a Leinster decision.
Munster's CEO made reference (in passing) to the Ireland/Province conflict in general and praised the IRFU's role.
In hindsight MOC at some stage got up Joe's nose and Joe is by all accounts a tough hombre when need arises.
One would wonder therefore, if Joe had any role in the final decision.
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Re: Matts gone

Postby Kinger83 » May 21st, 2015, 8:25 pm

According to Murray Kinsella it was MOC who ultimately decided to leave. Leinster were prepared to have him see out his contract.

http://www.the42.ie/matt-oconnor-leinst ... 8-May2015/
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Re: Matts gone

Postby dropkick » May 21st, 2015, 8:49 pm

I'm not a Leinster fan but felt MOC didn't get the most out of the squad he had.

- They missed out on the top 4 in the Pro 12 despite having the biggest squad.
- The team played an awful standard of rugby with no creativity.
- He preferred bosh to skill.
- He refused to play Madigan at 10. Seemed to be a decision that was based on MOC being a bit too opinionated.
- He was poor at playing young or academy players. Incredible to think that Tom Farrell, Cian Kelleher, Cathal Marsh etc got no game time while at the same time Leinster were badly lacking creative players.
- Blaming Ireland for Leinster's poor form was probably the final straw. Schmidt must have been already peed off by MOC's refusal to play Madigan. Did he not know when he signed up for the job that Leinster would lose players to Ireland.



Although you never like to see a man lose his job its a professional game. MOC must have some good points too because the players liked him and he seems to be in demand in Australia if reports are true. Good luck to him.
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Re: Matts gone

Postby artaneboy » May 21st, 2015, 9:16 pm

Best of luck Matt to you and your family at whatever you do and go next. I think you drew a set of difficult cards and, while maybe you could have played them a bit cuter, it was always going to be a little bit like the 'day after the Lord Mayor show' about whatever you did. I'll remember particularly fondly the win in the Pro 12 last season and the gritty European semi this year.

You never deserved the extent and level of criticism that came your way from very early on. A lot of it based on the premise that you had a failed to reach not only the excellent standard of your predecessor- but the mythical standards of the 'Club tradition'. The former would have been difficult- minus key players, injury crisis, etc.- but the second standard was very often beyond any reasonable demands. having said that, I think that a parting of the ways was best for all concerned. Good luck Mate! :clap:
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Re: Matts gone

Postby Hornet » May 21st, 2015, 9:28 pm

artaneboy wrote:Best of luck Matt to you and your family at whatever you do and go next. I think you drew a set of difficult cards and, while maybe you could have played them a bit cuter, it was always going to be a little bit like the 'day after the Lord Mayor show' about whatever you did. I'll remember particularly fondly the win in the Pro 12 last season and the gritty European semi this year.

You never deserved the extent and level of criticism that came your way from very early on. A lot of it based on the premise that you had a failed to reach not only the excellent standard of your predecessor- but the mythical standards of the 'Club tradition'. The former would have been difficult- minus key players, injury crisis, etc.- but the second standard was very often beyond any reasonable demands. having said that, I think that a parting of the ways was best for all concerned. Good luck Mate! :clap:


Well said.
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Re: Matts gone

Postby Donny B. » May 22nd, 2015, 12:39 am

Kinger83 wrote:According to Murray Kinsella it was MOC who ultimately decided to leave. Leinster were prepared to have him see out his contract.

http://www.the42.ie/matt-oconnor-leinst ... 8-May2015/


Don't really buy that spin to be honest. I think if the management had wanted him, he would have stayed.
He had the players and the media on his side, if it wasn't for those pesky supporters!
And I have it on good authority that the move to push him out started after the defeat to Toulon.


I don't follow Super Rugby too much anymore but are the Reds that stuck for a coach that they want to take a fella who was effectively sacked two years into his first head coach role?

Maybe they are, but I would suspect he'd pick up a gig in the Aviva Premiership sooner.
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Re: Matts gone

Postby simonokeeffe » May 22nd, 2015, 1:30 am

Donny B. wrote:
Kinger83 wrote:According to Murray Kinsella it was MOC who ultimately decided to leave. Leinster were prepared to have him see out his contract.

http://www.the42.ie/matt-oconnor-leinst ... 8-May2015/


Don't really buy that spin to be honest. I think if the management had wanted him, he would have stayed.
He had the players and the media on his side, if it wasn't for those pesky supporters!
And I have it on good authority that the move to push him out started after the defeat to Toulon.


I don't follow Super Rugby too much anymore but are the Reds that stuck for a coach that they want to take a fella who was effectively sacked two years into his first head coach role?

Maybe they are, but I would suspect he'd pick up a gig in the Aviva Premiership sooner.


IT saying MOC asked about an extension as he didnt want to be a lame duck in final year, was told no, so didnt want to stick around
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Matts gone

Postby neiliog93 » May 22nd, 2015, 1:38 am

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Re: Matts gone

Postby nc6000 » May 22nd, 2015, 8:49 am

dropkick wrote:Schmidt must have been already peed off by MOC's refusal to play Madigan.


Was he? But even Schmidt won't start Madigan at 10 when it comes to it.
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Re: Matts gone

Postby rookie » May 22nd, 2015, 9:16 am

Why the f%~k would he have wanted to stay, with the public abuse he got. Another year of that Shit? Anyway, maybe it's something that a the next coach can think about before he takes the job. Get it wrong and expect the hounding.
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Re: Matts gone

Postby Mexicola » May 22nd, 2015, 9:32 am

Donny B. wrote:
I don't follow Super Rugby too much anymore but are the Reds that stuck for a coach that they want to take a fella who was effectively sacked two years into his first head coach role?



They pretty much are, they are woeful.
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Re: Matts gone

Postby Oldschool » May 22nd, 2015, 11:41 am

nc6000 wrote:
dropkick wrote:Schmidt must have been already peed off by MOC's refusal to play Madigan.


Was he? But even Schmidt won't start Madigan at 10 when it comes to it.

That's because it's a punt to pick a player at 10 who hasn't played there regularly.
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Re: Matts gone

Postby Oldschool » May 22nd, 2015, 11:43 am

rookie wrote:Why the f%~k would he have wanted to stay, with the public abuse he got. Another year of that Shit? Anyway, maybe it's something that a the next coach can think about before he takes the job. Get it wrong and expect the hounding.

A win win for everyone. He's happy and the fans are happy.
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Re: Matts gone

Postby Dave Cahill » May 22nd, 2015, 11:48 am

Oldschool wrote:
nc6000 wrote:
dropkick wrote:Schmidt must have been already peed off by MOC's refusal to play Madigan.


Was he? But even Schmidt won't start Madigan at 10 when it comes to it.

That's because it's a punt to pick a player at 10 who hasn't played there regularly.


Its a punt to pick a player at 10 who you don't think is a very good 10.
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Re: Matts gone

Postby MelbourneRebel » May 22nd, 2015, 11:54 am

if we go for a foreign coach I hope it is Deans. He built the best "club" rugby side in the history of the game. Recent posts seem to suggest he failed at Australia but at Australia he finished 2nd on average with the 2nd/3rd best team in the Southern Hemisphere and did win a title (and get 3rd spot in a World Cup). Did great work with the All Blacks setup as assistant. The bonus is that he is a man of outstanding character and exactly what we need.

I pray we don't give it to McKenzie. We have experts running Leinster Rugby and any due diligence beyond Wikipedia will rule him out thankfully. Calls for him ahead of Deans really are absurd when you compare their records at club and international level.
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Re: Matts gone

Postby Raydollard » May 22nd, 2015, 12:10 pm

It's a professional game. He had a really great squad and was paid plenty to manage and coach them. He failed miserably. He was sacked as was his due.
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Re: Matts gone

Postby mikey » May 22nd, 2015, 1:07 pm

What I find interesting is that MoC is, by all accounts a jolly nice chap and all that, but he worked along side Dick c~*k at Leicester. DC has to be one serious hard case in terms of a head coach, and therefore you might have anticipated some of that steel and drive to have been part of MoC's DNA too. I wonder if that was what was expected of him, and whilst he was never going to be Joe from a control and analytics point of view, I wonder of they expected a tighter reign ?

The players liked him but I wonder if that was because he was the complete opposite of Joe ? Its all very well to like your pally manager, but I think its plain to see that the players seem to thrive on the tough love from Joe! A lesson that hopefully the suits at Leinster will learn from with their next appointment.

I for one am pleased he is moving on - our results over this past 2 years and manner of play speak for themselves, and whilst the players have to take responsibility for their in-actions too, its the coach who carries the can.
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Re: Matts gone

Postby Dave Cahill » May 22nd, 2015, 1:33 pm

MelbourneRebel wrote:if we go for a foreign coach I hope it is Deans. He built the best "club" rugby side in the history of the game. Recent posts seem to suggest he failed at Australia but at Australia he finished 2nd on average with the 2nd/3rd best team in the Southern Hemisphere and did win a title (and get 3rd spot in a World Cup). Did great work with the All Blacks setup as assistant. The bonus is that he is a man of outstanding character and exactly what we need.

I pray we don't give it to McKenzie. We have experts running Leinster Rugby and any due diligence beyond Wikipedia will rule him out thankfully. Calls for him ahead of Deans really are absurd when you compare their records at club and international level.



You simply can't talk about Deans without reference to his history with the guy who will, in many ways, be his boss - David Nucifora. They have a relationship that is, at best, completely and utterly antagonistic. To do so, now thats really absurd.
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Re: Matts gone

Postby jezzer » May 22nd, 2015, 2:30 pm

Coaches and performance directors often butt heads and bump elbows jostling for AUTHORITAAAY. Par for the course in pro sport and the big egos that reside in the front office. But Deans decided to make his feelings about Nucifora public, which won't have gone down well. It was over 5 years ago, though, when Nucifora losing out on the job to Deans was still a sore point, I guess. I suspect they may well have gotten over it, more or less.

If Deans is the right guy though, I'm not sure Nucifora's personal feelings will be enough to stop his appointment. He might well be exactly the right guy for us though. I didn't start out feeling that way, but reading about his management/coaching style and seeing how few leaders we have outside Sexton and Heaslip... I'm tending towards thinking he's what Leinster needs.
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Re: Matts gone

Postby Dave Cahill » May 22nd, 2015, 2:37 pm

jezzer wrote:Coaches and performance directors often butt heads and bump elbows jostling for AUTHORITAAAY. Par for the course in pro sport and the big egos that reside in the front office. But Deans decided to make his feelings about Nucifora public, which won't have gone down well. It was over 5 years ago, though, when Nucifora losing out on the job to Deans was still a sore point, I guess. I suspect they may well have gotten over it, more or less.

If Deans is the right guy though, I'm not sure Nucifora's personal feelings will be enough to stop his appointment. He might well be exactly the right guy for us though. I didn't start out feeling that way, but reading about his management/coaching style and seeing how few leaders we have outside Sexton and Heaslip... I'm tending towards thinking he's what Leinster needs.


I don't think it was that long ago, and Deans' book certainly wasn't as he wrote it only after he left the Aussie job.

I think Deans would be a great appointment, but I simply don't think we'll be allowed hire the guy.
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