moc

[Not10]

Bring back Gary Ella.....he was awesome

[leinster4life13]

How can u say "ROG was a bottler at international level"? That is just not true.

What u say about Kidney on the other hand..

Sums up his entire match, he was awful that WC, and every WC for that matter.

[leinster4life13]

I could include heaps of videos of him leaking tries and giving up field position due to his horrendous defence. He was a great club player in the system he was in, but he was a bottler at international level, his lack of movement, zero defence and lack of bottle, shanked kicks passes, stupid decisions etc cost Ireland and the Lions at every tour/WC. Only in Ireland is he held up as a top quality ten, he never was.

[munster#1]

I think leinsternolife is on the money. The one thing that Ireland's top capped outhalf who is also Ireland's top points scorer, along with his many, many other accolades, will be remembered as is a bottler.

Ha ha, good try, you will have to use more subtle bait next time you go fishing.

[BlueStreak]

I think leinsternolife is on the money. The one thing that Ireland's top capped outhalf who is also Ireland's top points scorer, along with his many, many other accolades, will be remembered as is a bottler.

Ha ha, good try, you will have to use more subtle bait next time you go fishing.

The mad thing is I'm pretty sure he's not wumming. He's just batcrap crazy!

[leinster4life13]

I think leinsternolife is on the money. The one thing that Ireland's top capped outhalf who is also Ireland's top points scorer, along with his many, many other accolades, will be remembered as is a bottler.

Ha ha, good try, you will have to use more subtle bait next time you go fishing.

WC's and Lions, it doesnt get much bigger than that, racking up points and caps in games that, ultimately, dont matter, is fine(Shay Given and Robbie Keane have done it for Ireland in football) but as above, come world cup and Lions time, O'Gara has bottled it, Lions 09(he was awful in 05, but so was everyone else), WC 07 and 11, three biggest occasions in the rugby calender, O'Gara's form took a horrendous nosedive, is that not bottling it?

[munster#1]

I think leinsternolife is on the money. The one thing that Ireland's top capped outhalf who is also Ireland's top points scorer, along with his many, many other accolades, will be remembered as is a bottler.

Ha ha, good try, you will have to use more subtle bait next time you go fishing.

The mad thing is I'm pretty sure he's not wumming. He's just batcrap crazy!

Not sure he's crazy, Rog has never been known for his bottle, it's not like he's ever nailed last minute drop goals to win a cup, or penalties from the the halfway line or touch line to progress in a cup.

Even the biggest rog fans would find it hard to come up with examples of rog's bottle.

[cwebber82]

How can u say "ROG was a bottler at international level"? That is just not true.

What u say about Kidney on the other hand..

Sums up his entire match, he was awful that WC, and every WC for that matter.

Ha, that's a serious case u have put forward!

I'm not sure that has to do with bottle or mental toughness though. I always thought ROG was a little overrated. His defence was terrible and his tackling technique was awful but in fairness to him, he never hid or shirked a tackle. There are plenty of clips of ROG being run over (mainly by Jamie, don't think he liked ROG too much!) but that's because he never hid out on the wing in defence like some 10's do. He put his body on the line even though he regularly got hurt doing so.

ROG had no pace either. Didn't have a break in him.

G Hook talked him up over the years and he was every old lady's favourite rugby player. I remember being at a wedding in Feb 2008 and the old dear next to me adored ROG because he kicked all the goals.

One disgraceful thing ROG did was at the 2011 WC. He threw a fit and used the media to put pressure on Kidney to pick him against Wales. If I remember correctly, he also announced his international retirement during the WC even though he was contracted to the IRFU till 2013. Terrible thing to do and he got a pass from the media here. Real crappy way to conduct himself during a WC. He's never been challenged about it in any interviews either.

[All Blacks nil]

I think leinsternolife is on the money. The one thing that Ireland's top capped outhalf who is also Ireland's top points scorer, along with his many, many other accolades, will be remembered as is a bottler.

Ha ha, good try, you will have to use more subtle bait next time you go fishing.

WC's and Lions, it doesnt get much bigger than that, racking up points and caps in games that, ultimately, dont matter, is fine(Shay Given and Robbie Keane have done it for Ireland in football) but as above, come world cup and Lions time, O'Gara has bottled it, Lions 09(he was awful in 05, but so was everyone else), WC 07 and 11, three biggest occasions in the rugby calender, O'Gara's form took a horrendous nosedive, is that not bottling it?

Interesting you say ROG bottled the RWC11, when you consider he wasn't first choice outhalf starting that World Cup.

[Dave Cahill]

Interesting you say ROG bottled the RWC11, when you consider he wasn't first choice outhalf starting that World Cup.

I don't think its appropriate to say he bottled that World Cup, as you say, he went into it on the bench. The problem was that when he came off the bench, that decision cost us our place in the World Cup and a chance of winning a tournament that turned out to be eminently winnable from our side of the draw. He didn't make that call though - though his behaviour off the pitch during the tournament was less than professional.

ROG was a fine player, but his reputation as a world class outhalf doesn't have much oxygen outside of the Republic of Ireland. He was the Irish Stephen Jones, and thats not a bad thing.

[Dave Cahill]

double post

[johng]

Rog made some bad decisions but not because he bottled it. That Lions one was a great example. That was the opposite of bottling it. He had serious stones to make that (ill advised and risky) move. A bottler would have settled for the draw. As others have said, he didn't bottle tackles either. He was just not great at them.

His drive and mental toughness was what made him as a player rather than an abundance of natural flair. (not that he had none either)

Between Humphries retiring and Sexton emerging who was a better option at outhalf for Ireland?

Sadly that drive that made him as a player probably kept him at the top a little to long (RWC2011 onwards) As has been said. He didn't pick himself. That was someone else's decision.

[johng]

BTW. It's cool that while every thread last season turned into a MOC thread. Now we have a Moc thread turning to Rog.

[Ray Mc]

Yes, but it was MOC's fault that ROG was as poor as he was.

[All Blacks nil]

Interesting you say ROG bottled the RWC11, when you consider he wasn't first choice outhalf starting that World Cup.

I don't think its appropriate to say he bottled that World Cup, as you say, he went into it on the bench. The problem was that when he came off the bench, that decision cost us our place in the World Cup and a chance of winning a tournament that turned out to be eminently winnable from our side of the draw. He didn't make that call though - though his behaviour off the pitch during the tournament was less than professional.

ROG was a fine player, but his reputation as a world class outhalf doesn't have much oxygen outside of the Republic of Ireland. He was the Irish Stephen Jones, and thats not a bad thing.

Sexton started v USA and kicked 2/6 in a stuttering 22-10 victory.
In the next match v Australia which was effectively the pool decider Johnny was kicking 2/5 plus a DG, with Ireland winning 9-6. ROG replaced Darcy with Sexton going to inside centre and kicked 2/2.

Ireland would not have won a RWC or their pool with Johnny Sexton in the that type of kicking form. 4/11 or 36% success rate from the tee.
Kidney after trusting Sexton (the right decision) had no choice but to start ROG (also the right decision).
ROG's RWC stats of 18/21 or 85.7% compared well to Johnny's 7/15 or 46.6% and certainly any side looking to make an impact in the RWC need to kick their goals. Johnny was in the process of kicking away the victory v Australia when ROG answered the call and sealed a victory based on a ferocious effort by the pack

[Dave Cahill]

Sexton started v USA and kicked 2/6 in a stuttering 22-10 victory.
In the next match v Australia which was effectively the pool decider Johnny was kicking 2/5 plus a DG, with Ireland winning 9-6. ROG replaced Darcy with Sexton going to inside centre and kicked 2/2.

Ireland would not have won a RWC or their pool with Johnny Sexton in the that type of kicking form. 4/11 or 36% success rate from the tee.
Kidney after trusting Sexton (the right decision) had no choice but to start ROG (also the right decision).
ROG's RWC stats of 18/21 or 85.7% compared well to Johnny's 7/15 or 46.6% and certainly any side looking to make an impact in the RWC need to kick their goals. Johnny was in the process of kicking away the victory v Australia when ROG answered the call and sealed a victory based on a ferocious effort by the pack

We won against Australia. We lost against Wales. All the stats in the world won't change that.

[janeymac08]

One disgraceful thing ROG did was at the 2011 WC. He threw a fit and used the media to put pressure on Kidney to pick him against Wales. If I remember correctly, he also announced his international retirement during the WC even though he was contracted to the IRFU till 2013. Terrible thing to do and he got a pass from the media here. Real crappy way to conduct himself during a WC. He's never been challenged about it in any interviews either.

This interview did all of that? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1PpnSAQxHg

Seriously, I think you are being a bit precious, if you think Kidney dropped Sexton to the bench because of that interview. Kidney never did sentiment (as an example - dropping Anthony Foley out of the match day squad for the 2008 Heineken Cup Final having made every matchday 23 up to that when he was retiring).

[janeymac08]

Sexton started v USA and kicked 2/6 in a stuttering 22-10 victory.
In the next match v Australia which was effectively the pool decider Johnny was kicking 2/5 plus a DG, with Ireland winning 9-6. ROG replaced Darcy with Sexton going to inside centre and kicked 2/2.

Ireland would not have won a RWC or their pool with Johnny Sexton in the that type of kicking form. 4/11 or 36% success rate from the tee.
Kidney after trusting Sexton (the right decision) had no choice but to start ROG (also the right decision).
ROG's RWC stats of 18/21 or 85.7% compared well to Johnny's 7/15 or 46.6% and certainly any side looking to make an impact in the RWC need to kick their goals. Johnny was in the process of kicking away the victory v Australia when ROG answered the call and sealed a victory based on a ferocious effort by the pack

We won against Australia. We lost against Wales. All the stats in the world won't change that.

... Or Wales beat Ireland. That game was won and lost in the backrows. Lydiate chopped Ferris & SOB down all day long. Lydiate made 23 tackles, missing none. Ferris & SOB made 34 carries day and gained less than 1 metre. Sexton was on at 55 minutes and he made no difference.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I'm not interested in getting into an argument about it because most of this thread lacks reason but I think that Sexton's Ireland career has been disappointing overall. He's never dominated games like he did in his pomp for Leinster and has had some poor performances and missed some high profile kicks that he really should have nailed.

He's still performed well by most standards, it's just that I think he's fallen short of what I think he's truly capable of on a consistent basis.

[LeinsterLeader]

Lads, can yis take this somewhere else?

Yous Munster boys, get up your own end and play.....go on now! http://forum.leinsterfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23556