Leinster v Toulon 2015/2016

[Toulon fan]

How many Toulon academy products played against Leinster at the weekend?

How many Leinster academy products did you have on your 5 last european defeat in a row, including 3 against Toulon?
It's your right to form losers. It's our right to recruit winners.

[cormac]

How many Toulon academy products played against Leinster at the weekend?

How many Leinster academy products did you have on your 5 last european defeat in a row, including 3 against Toulon?
It's your right to form losers. It's our right to recruit winners.

We've won 3 Heineken Cups using our method, the same number as Toulon.

[the spoofer]

How many Toulon academy products played against Leinster at the weekend?

How many Leinster academy products did you have on your 5 last european defeat in a row, including 3 against Toulon?
It's your right to form losers. It's our right to recruit winners.

Your club is nothing but a parasite. Your victories were all bought and not earned.

[Toulon fan]

We've won 3 Heineken Cups using our method, the same number as Toulon.

Deuce, then! But I didn't pretend anything else!
You are the ones who claim that your own method is most valuable and respectable than ours! Which is wrong.

[LeinsterLeader]

How many Toulon academy products played against Leinster at the weekend?

How many Leinster academy products did you have on your 5 last european defeat in a row, including 3 against Toulon?
It's your right to form losers. It's our right to recruit winners.

That's all very well TF but your dodging the question. Your claim was that the Toulan Academy was one of the best around but how are you measuring that if you are not bringing many players through? Is it because the other french clubs are not bringing players through from their academys either? If that is the case then a poor academy is still a poor academy even if its the best poor academy in france.

[cormac]

We've won 3 Heineken Cups using our method, the same number as Toulon.

Deuce, then! But I didn't pretend anything else!
You are the ones who claim that your own method is most valuable and respectable than ours! Which is wrong.

I've no great problem with Toulon's methods. There's room in professional rugby for all different ways of putting a squad together. I wouldn't like to see it at Leinster as it doesn't fit with our history as a representative team. To me it wouldn't be a Leinster side if it was mostly filled with players from outside our system.

[Toulon fan]

Your club is nothing but a parasite. Your victories were all bought and not earned.

Hahaha! Look who's disrespectful! Your losing your nerves because you're dissapointed to watch your team falling down. I'm sure you'll rise up again soon! And don't forget my best regards to Healy and your corrupted commissionneers! Cheers!

[Toulon fan]

I've no great problem with Toulon's methods. There's room in professional rugby for all different ways of putting a squad together. I wouldn't like to see it at Leinster as it doesn't fit with our history as a representative team. To me it wouldn't be a Leinster side if it was mostly filled with players from outside our system.

Then again, different methods, different cultures. Different histories.
What Toulon are doing works perfectly because it suits both its culture and centenial history.
We're the ones who can deal with that. You're the ones who can't.
Watch yourself... For your own good.

[Logorrhea]

Hahaha! Look who's disrespectful! Your losing your nerves because you're dissapointed to watch your team falling down. I'm sure you'll rise up again soon! And don't forget my best regards to Healy and your corrupted commissionneers! Cheers!

Somehow I find Toulon Fan's persona quite reassuring. Its kinda good to see that the fans maintain similar standards and a similar outlook to those that run their club.

[cormac]

I've no great problem with Toulon's methods. There's room in professional rugby for all different ways of putting a squad together. I wouldn't like to see it at Leinster as it doesn't fit with our history as a representative team. To me it wouldn't be a Leinster side if it was mostly filled with players from outside our system.

Then again, different methods, different cultures. Different histories.
What Toulon are doing works perfectly because it suits both its culture and centenial history.
We're the ones who can deal with that. You're the ones who can't.
Watch yourself... For your own good.

Watch myself???? Back on ignore for you.

[Toulon fan]

Hahaha! Look who's disrespectful! Your losing your nerves because you're dissapointed to watch your team falling down. I'm sure you'll rise up again soon! And don't forget my best regards to Healy and your corrupted commissionneers! Cheers!

Somehow I find Toulon Fan's persona quite reassuring. Its kinda good to see that the fans maintain similar standards and a similar outlook to those that run their club.

I take the banter. I didn't expect anything else than finding plenty of BOD followers here.

[Toulon fan]

I've no great problem with Toulon's methods. There's room in professional rugby for all different ways of putting a squad together. I wouldn't like to see it at Leinster as it doesn't fit with our history as a representative team. To me it wouldn't be a Leinster side if it was mostly filled with players from outside our system.

Then again, different methods, different cultures. Different histories.
What Toulon are doing works perfectly because it suits both its culture and centenial history.
We're the ones who can deal with that. You're the ones who can't.
Watch yourself... For your own good.

Watch myself???? Back on ignore for you.

It's not a threat! I was just saying that living locked in your bubble won't help you (you = Leinster and Leinster fans) anytime soon.

[LeinsterLeader]

How many Toulon academy products played against Leinster at the weekend?

How many Leinster academy products did you have on your 5 last european defeat in a row, including 3 against Toulon?
It's your right to form losers. It's our right to recruit winners.

That's all very well TF but your dodging the question. Your claim was that the Toulan Academy was one of the best around but how are you measuring that if you are not bringing many players through? Is it because the other french clubs are not bringing players through from their academys either? If that is the case then a poor academy is still a poor academy even if its the best poor academy in france.

Still dodging the question! Prefer to troll it would seem

[molloyjh]

How many Toulon academy products played against Leinster at the weekend?

How many Leinster academy products did you have on your 5 last european defeat in a row, including 3 against Toulon?
It's your right to form losers. It's our right to recruit winners.

It is your right. But then are you really Toulon any more? I'd argue that you are not. It isn't a great rugby achievement to be able to buy the best players. But for me winning anything by buying it is a little hollow. And in fairness Toulon have done something no team ever has before, and done it by buying in the vast majority of their players. That's not something that was earned the same way most other clubs that have won European trophies have earned it.

Toulon aren't the only team doing it of course. Others are too, but just not as successfully. This has led to Toulon becoming the poster boys for this kind of recruitment. Either way if it continues it will hurt rugby generally. Because if you guys go on to win this season again do you really think it will help grow the game? Or will it start to turn people off it?

[Toulon fan]

It is your right. But then are you really Toulon any more?

Honestly: who do you think you are to judge what is/must be/ Toulon or not?
And especially Toulon, in your little knowledge of french rugby clubs' history; Toulon is certainly the one you know the least, for obvious reasons, as we weren't in the front scene when european rugby rose up.
I support Toulon since more than 40 years, Boudjellal was wearing shorts I was going every sunday at Mayol and had played wearing its jersey. And I think I'm in right to say that Toulon is exactly the Toulon that it's supposed to be, for plenty, plenty of reasons, some are about rugby, and some are off rugby.
And reasons far more respectable that the kindergarden argument of "how much kids from your academy nananana..."

[molloyjh]

It is your right. But then are you really Toulon any more?

Honestly: who do you think you are to judge what is/must be/ Toulon or not?
And especially Toulon, in your little knowledge of french rugby clubs' history; Toulon is certainly the one you know the least, for obvious reasons, as we weren't in the front scene when european rugby rose up.
I support Toulon since more than 40 years, Boudjellal was wearing shorts I was going every sunday at Mayol and had played wearing its jersey. And I think I'm in right to say that Toulon is exactly the Toulon that it's supposed to be, for plenty, plenty of reasons, some are about rugby, and some are off rugby.

I never said anything about what Toulon "must be". I just said that as far as I'm concerned, in my own personal opinion, a team with almost no Toulon players on it isn't really Toulon anymore. I would think that a perfectly reasonable opinion, even if it isn't the only one. If you're happy with where Toulon are and how they got there then that's fair enough. I don't ever want to see Leinster go that way myself, but to each their own. But you can't say that Toulon developed this side, because that would be factually incorrect. They bought it. That is factually correct. And in my own personal opinion that's like using cheat codes on a computer game. It might get you the success you want quickly but ultimately it simply isn't the same achievement as completing the game without cheat codes. And that will matter to some people and it won't to others.

[OTT]

It is not like for like though (with respect to our histories)

I think when we talk about history in rugby terms we have to really seperate pre and post professionalism.

Pre pro rugby Toulon were historically a big team.

When the game went professional Toulon struggled. they spent years outside the Top 14 and when promoted would bounce back down.

Leinster has always been a representative team of players who performed for their local clubs and got the honour to represent their province. That was why I went to Leinster games in the early 90's with my dad was to see my local team (Blackrock) getting their players represented, Roland, McGowan, Carey, Ridge, Oswald (a New Zealender), Mullin, Byrne, Frano etc etc. Then when it went professional in the early years it was still on the whole the same idea you always wanted your guy in the jersey, so a Rock guy over a Marys or Terenure guy etc. But as the years passed it stopped becoming that way (as parochial) it was all about who was best for Leinster, it was about who were the best Irish players no matter what club they came from who could represent my province and then go on to represent my country with a special kind of foreign player thrown into the mix, a Contepomi, a Rocky, a Hines.

My change in outlook was pretty small as professionalism passed and it has been very rewarding. Toulon on the other hand went from being the best in France to struggling in the second division in France.

Would I care so much about winning with foreigners if Leinster's model had proved to be unsuccessful over the last 20 years, ask Connacht fans, is it better to be winning with a lot of guys who might not be from that area or losing with a load of locals? I think they would want the latter.

I prefer our sysyem and it made me very proud when we have won trophy's with mostly our own developed players but give me 20 years of heartache and I probably would have a different view on teams full of so called mercenaries. Lots of teams have bought in players but few of them have been able to be a 'team' like Toulon, fair play to them. Over the last 6 years we have seen probably the best two teams since the start of pro European rugby and they both have very different models but it shows both have a place and both can be successful.

[All Blacks nil]

Guys
A pointless spat.

For obvious financial and policy reasons, Irish fans are envious of Toulon's unlimited funds and freedom to sign unlimited players from around the world.
Ireland has only 4 professional clubs/provinces, each with the stated aim of providing players for the national squad. So as much as we too would like to fill our squads with overseas stars, with only 4 clubs we have a huge responsibility towards the international squad. That responsibility isn't obviously as important to individual clubs in France, especially when you consider they have 14 professional clubs in their top league to produce an international side. In recent years the influx of foreign players especially at the top of their league has, similar to the English soccer team since the advent of the Premier league, had an adverse effect on the national team.. So even if we had unlimited funds, would Irish rugby fans like to see similar policies been implemented?

The onus is on the 4 Irish teams to produce Irish qualified players to play international rugby.

Our attitude to unlimited funding would probably change if the likes of Denis O'Brien or JP McManus decided to derive their sporting pleasures from their local rugby clubs and finance them accordingly. I know Munster would probably wear green and gold hoops (away kit) if it meant unlimited support from JP. Certainly there was no one objecting when the likes of Elsom or Howlett etc were lured to the Irish game. It is worth remembering there is no salary cap in the PRO 12.

Toulon have prospered with their model. I disagree that their players are mercenaries. They are highly paid, top class rugby players, but each and every one of them buys into the values of Toulon rugby and at a time when Irish rugby is speaking of a "disconnect" between players and supporters that "connection" is alive and kicking in Toulon.

[Raydollard]

When I think of all the bought in cr@p we got and the whinging Cullen, Toulon Fan can boast. He is in a better place than Leinster fans are anyway

[domhnallj]

Guys
A pointless spat.

On the internet?? Surely such a thing could never happen?