Mads to Bordeaux - confirmed

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Re: Mads to Bordeaux - confirmed

Postby Dave Cahill » March 6th, 2017, 12:14 pm

curates_egg wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:Well Pat Lam has got his man for Bristol. Strange that he didn't seem that interested in signing him for Connacht.


Is it true he didn't want him at Connacht? I only followed it vaguely in the media but I thought an effort was made to get Mads to go to Munster or Connacht and he didn't want to?
Leaving out the international rugby thing, on the face of it - and all other things being equal - would you prefer to move to the driving wind and rain in Galway for 200-250k or
move to Bordeaux for more than double that?


He didn't want to go to Munster, I know that for certain - the nature of the abuse he got from Munster supporters ruled out such a move. I don't know about Connacht at the time he first left, but a couple of weeks ago Connacht did a 'thanks but no thanks' when it was pointed out that Madigan was agitating for a move out of Bordeaux

If Ian were in Connacht I'd say he wouldn't have to break too much of a sweat to match what he'll get in Bristol. He'd be back in the international fold again, where the real advertising money is, he'd be popular out there - he's a clever, personable guy without artiface. And I'd pick Galway over Bristol 10 times out of 10 - Galway is one of Europe's best cities - the best that can be said about Bristol is that there is a direct train to Bath.
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Re: Mads to Bordeaux - confirmed

Postby curates_egg » March 6th, 2017, 12:23 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
curates_egg wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:Well Pat Lam has got his man for Bristol. Strange that he didn't seem that interested in signing him for Connacht.


Is it true he didn't want him at Connacht? I only followed it vaguely in the media but I thought an effort was made to get Mads to go to Munster or Connacht and he didn't want to?
Leaving out the international rugby thing, on the face of it - and all other things being equal - would you prefer to move to the driving wind and rain in Galway for 200-250k or
move to Bordeaux for more than double that?


He didn't want to go to Munster, I know that for certain - the nature of the abuse he got from Munster supporters ruled out such a move. I don't know about Connacht at the time he first left, but a couple of weeks ago Connacht did a 'thanks but no thanks' when it was pointed out that Madigan was agitating for a move out of Bordeaux

If Ian were in Connacht I'd say he wouldn't have to break too much of a sweat to match what he'll get in Bristol. He'd be back in the international fold again, where the real advertising money is, he'd be popular out there - he's a clever, personable guy without artiface. And I'd pick Galway over Bristol 10 times out of 10 - Galway is one of Europe's best cities - the best that can be said about Bristol is that there is a direct train to Bath.


Ah yeah, the Bristol move is sad and hard to fathom but that is not what I was referring to. Would he really be able to make up the 400,000 Euro difference in wages with advertising and time on the Ireland bench? I didn't realise it could make up that much. Too late now anyway.

Connacht said no two weeks ago but that was nothing to do with Lam you would imagine and also a changed squad situation from January 2016. If Madigan had wanted to play in Connacht last year, you would imagine all sides would have been encouraged to make an effort to make sure it happened. He took a gamble and chose money and sun and life experience. On the face of it, it wasn't a terrible decision: Bordeaux were on the up, with some good players and playing a style of rugby that suited Mads more than most Top14 sides. You couldn't predict the chaos the club is now facing and how that would impact on him.

As for me personally, I wouldn't choose to live in either Bristol or Galway. Galway is a lovely town and the people are great but the weather is really tough. I wouldn't live anywhere in the UK, so Bristol wouldn't even be a runner. Bristol is the one you fly to when you want to watch a game in Cardiff right? That's its other raison d'etre I suppose.
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Re: Mads to Bordeaux - confirmed

Postby johng » March 6th, 2017, 12:26 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
johng wrote:They are doing away with playoffs next season AFAIK


They are indeed

Which means Bristol will have a year in the 2nd division building momentum and are likely to bounce back extremely fast especially if Irish replace them
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Re: Mads to Bordeaux - confirmed

Postby Raydollard » March 6th, 2017, 12:36 pm

Another really good move for Madigan and well deserved. Expect to see him back in 2013 form.
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Re: Mads to Bordeaux - confirmed

Postby cormac » March 6th, 2017, 1:50 pm

curates_egg wrote:
Ah yeah, the Bristol move is sad and hard to fathom but that is not what I was referring to. Would he really be able to make up the 400,000 Euro difference in wages with advertising and time on the Ireland bench? I didn't realise it could make up that much. Too late now anyway.

Connacht said no two weeks ago but that was nothing to do with Lam you would imagine and also a changed squad situation from January 2016. If Madigan had wanted to play in Connacht last year, you would imagine all sides would have been encouraged to make an effort to make sure it happened. He took a gamble and chose money and sun and life experience. On the face of it, it wasn't a terrible decision: Bordeaux were on the up, with some good players and playing a style of rugby that suited Mads more than most Top14 sides. You couldn't predict the chaos the club is now facing and how that would impact on him.

As for me personally, I wouldn't choose to live in either Bristol or Galway. Galway is a lovely town and the people are great but the weather is really tough. I wouldn't live anywhere in the UK, so Bristol wouldn't even be a runner. Bristol is the one you fly to when you want to watch a game in Cardiff right? That's its other raison d'etre I suppose.


He'd be eligible for the tax rebate if he'd moved back to Ireland. Need to factor that in when comparing offers from English and French sides.
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Re: Mads to Bordeaux - confirmed

Postby curates_egg » March 6th, 2017, 2:01 pm

cormac wrote:
curates_egg wrote:
Ah yeah, the Bristol move is sad and hard to fathom but that is not what I was referring to. Would he really be able to make up the 400,000 Euro difference in wages with advertising and time on the Ireland bench? I didn't realise it could make up that much. Too late now anyway.

Connacht said no two weeks ago but that was nothing to do with Lam you would imagine and also a changed squad situation from January 2016. If Madigan had wanted to play in Connacht last year, you would imagine all sides would have been encouraged to make an effort to make sure it happened. He took a gamble and chose money and sun and life experience. On the face of it, it wasn't a terrible decision: Bordeaux were on the up, with some good players and playing a style of rugby that suited Mads more than most Top14 sides. You couldn't predict the chaos the club is now facing and how that would impact on him.

As for me personally, I wouldn't choose to live in either Bristol or Galway. Galway is a lovely town and the people are great but the weather is really tough. I wouldn't live anywhere in the UK, so Bristol wouldn't even be a runner. Bristol is the one you fly to when you want to watch a game in Cardiff right? That's its other raison d'etre I suppose.


He'd be eligible for the tax rebate if he'd moved back to Ireland. Need to factor that in when comparing offers from English and French sides.


He'll still be under 30 when this contract with Bristol ends, so he presumably still hopes to play in Ireland.
But I thought that rule was always misunderstood or misreported: i.e. you only have to move back to Ireland and be tax resident to claim the rebate; you don't actually have to finish your career in Ireland. I'm sure someone who knows better will correct me but that was my understanding. If that's so, he could simply come back here and sell eggs and claim his 40%.
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Re: Mads to Bordeaux - confirmed

Postby johng » March 6th, 2017, 2:02 pm

cormac wrote:
He'd be eligible for the tax rebate if he'd moved back to Ireland. Need to factor that in when comparing offers from English and French sides.

It doesn't look like he does a lot of forward planning though. Hard to believe he gets bad advice. Perhaps he is just a bit headstrong and likes a gamble.
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Re: Mads to Bordeaux - confirmed

Postby johng » March 6th, 2017, 2:04 pm

curates_egg wrote:But I thought that rule was always misunderstood or misreported: i.e. you only have to move back to Ireland and be tax resident to claim the rebate; you don't actually have to finish your career in Ireland. I'm sure someone who knows better will correct me but that was my understanding. If that's so, he could simply come back here and sell eggs and claim his 40%.

You no longer have to finish your career here but you can't claim back tax you paid outside Ireland.

So if he is away for 4 years at 500 Grand and would have earned half that here then he is actually losing out in the long term
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Re: Mads to Bordeaux - confirmed

Postby cormac » March 6th, 2017, 2:15 pm

curates_egg wrote:
cormac wrote:
curates_egg wrote:
Ah yeah, the Bristol move is sad and hard to fathom but that is not what I was referring to. Would he really be able to make up the 400,000 Euro difference in wages with advertising and time on the Ireland bench? I didn't realise it could make up that much. Too late now anyway.

Connacht said no two weeks ago but that was nothing to do with Lam you would imagine and also a changed squad situation from January 2016. If Madigan had wanted to play in Connacht last year, you would imagine all sides would have been encouraged to make an effort to make sure it happened. He took a gamble and chose money and sun and life experience. On the face of it, it wasn't a terrible decision: Bordeaux were on the up, with some good players and playing a style of rugby that suited Mads more than most Top14 sides. You couldn't predict the chaos the club is now facing and how that would impact on him.

As for me personally, I wouldn't choose to live in either Bristol or Galway. Galway is a lovely town and the people are great but the weather is really tough. I wouldn't live anywhere in the UK, so Bristol wouldn't even be a runner. Bristol is the one you fly to when you want to watch a game in Cardiff right? That's its other raison d'etre I suppose.


He'd be eligible for the tax rebate if he'd moved back to Ireland. Need to factor that in when comparing offers from English and French sides.


He'll still be under 30 when this contract with Bristol ends, so he presumably still hopes to play in Ireland.
But I thought that rule was always misunderstood or misreported: i.e. you only have to move back to Ireland and be tax resident to claim the rebate; you don't actually have to finish your career in Ireland. I'm sure someone who knows better will correct me but that was my understanding. If that's so, he could simply come back here and sell eggs and claim his 40%.


Yes, but you only get a rebate on tax you pay in Ireland.
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Re: Mads to Bordeaux - confirmed

Postby curates_egg » March 6th, 2017, 2:20 pm

johng wrote:
curates_egg wrote:But I thought that rule was always misunderstood or misreported: i.e. you only have to move back to Ireland and be tax resident to claim the rebate; you don't actually have to finish your career in Ireland. I'm sure someone who knows better will correct me but that was my understanding. If that's so, he could simply come back here and sell eggs and claim his 40%.

You no longer have to finish your career here but you can't claim back tax you paid outside Ireland.

So if he is away for 4 years at 500 Grand and would have earned half that here then he is actually losing out in the long term


Let's just assume a rate of 50% tax, as a top earner. Assume he was on 500k in Bordeaux, would have been on 250k here and will be on 600k (euro) in Bristol.

In the Ireland scenario, he earns 1 million gross and would have paid 500k Euro in taxes here and be eligible for 40% of that back: 200k. So he earns a total 700k net for those years (125k times 4 plus the 200k rebate).
In the actual scenario, he earns gross 2.3 mill away but loses half of that in tax, so ends up with 1.15 million Euro.
So he gets almost half a million more Euro into his pocket in salary.
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Re: Mads to Bordeaux - confirmed

Postby johng » March 6th, 2017, 2:46 pm

curates_egg wrote:
johng wrote:
curates_egg wrote:But I thought that rule was always misunderstood or misreported: i.e. you only have to move back to Ireland and be tax resident to claim the rebate; you don't actually have to finish your career in Ireland. I'm sure someone who knows better will correct me but that was my understanding. If that's so, he could simply come back here and sell eggs and claim his 40%.

You no longer have to finish your career here but you can't claim back tax you paid outside Ireland.

So if he is away for 4 years at 500 Grand and would have earned half that here then he is actually losing out in the long term


Let's just assume a rate of 50% tax, as a top earner. Assume he was on 500k in Bordeaux, would have been on 250k here and will be on 600k (euro) in Bristol.

In the Ireland scenario, he earns 1 million gross and would have paid 500k Euro in taxes here and be eligible for 40% of that back: 200k. So he earns a total 700k net for those years (125k times 4 plus the 200k rebate).
In the actual scenario, he earns gross 2.3 mill away but loses half of that in tax, so ends up with 1.15 million Euro.
So he gets almost half a million more Euro into his pocket in salary.

What about the longer career from IRFU minding, Ireland bonuses, Ad opportunities etc.
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Re: Mads to Bordeaux - confirmed

Postby simonokeeffe » March 6th, 2017, 3:20 pm

Callum Sheedy has re signed with Bristol so they have two IQ outhalves next season
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Mads to Bordeaux - confirmed

Postby jezzer » March 7th, 2017, 12:35 pm

He really should have switched early in his career to SH. If it hadn't been for Serin, maybe BB would have tried him there when the OH slot didn't work out.
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Re: Mads to Bordeaux - confirmed

Postby Flash Gordon » March 7th, 2017, 12:49 pm

johng wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:
johng wrote:They are doing away with playoffs next season AFAIK


They are indeed

Which means Bristol will have a year in the 2nd division building momentum and are likely to bounce back extremely fast especially if Irish replace them


I've watched quite a few of Irish's games this year and to be honest they are pretty awful. There is a huge gulf in standard - my view would be that they get Irish and Bristol (and maybe Yorkshire) into the top division and ring fence it. Promotion and relegation in a league where finances are extremely iffy can't really deal with it. I know they've changed it now but the play offs were absolutely crazy economically.
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Re: Mads to Bordeaux - confirmed

Postby simonokeeffe » March 7th, 2017, 12:57 pm

playoffs were a ridiculous sop to PRL to make it hard for teams to come up and stay up

Irish are played 16 won 16 with 12 TBP, avaerage score is a 35-16 win for them
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Mads to Bordeaux - confirmed

Postby the spoofer » March 7th, 2017, 1:08 pm

johng wrote:Three year deal confirmed. Wow. He is unlikely to play for Ireland again in his 20s. Pity. He's a good bloke and a great player.


I'd disagree with this.
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Re: Mads to Bordeaux - confirmed

Postby johng » March 7th, 2017, 1:39 pm

Know him well do you?
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Re: Mads to Bordeaux - confirmed

Postby outcast eddie » March 7th, 2017, 1:41 pm

the spoofer wrote:
johng wrote:Three year deal confirmed. Wow. He is unlikely to play for Ireland again in his 20s. Pity. He's a good bloke and a great player.


I'd disagree with this.


Controversial, care to elaborate?
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Re: Mads to Bordeaux - confirmed

Postby blockhead » May 19th, 2017, 4:02 pm

You know I'm going to lose,
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Re: Mads to Bordeaux - confirmed

Postby simonokeeffe » May 19th, 2017, 4:06 pm

Once again theyre making an article out of Gavin Mortimer's tweets, he had loads of good stuff this morning on wages
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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