Things are looking up

[Xanthippe]

WHEN we win the league we will have the most league wins of any side and will have won as many leagues as all the Welsh sides put together

Fixed the typo for you

you have to run round the spire 3 times to fix the jinx on that

Backwards with your eyes closed!

[simonokeeffe]

So, good things to take into next year/things to be positive about

Scrum: and assuming its coaching has gotten steadily better, Moore hardly missed at all, though international windows may be tricky

Maul: and its defence got much better as season went on

Defence: fizzled a bit but should only improve

Henshaw: Henshaw, also more balanced centres/backline

Nippers: McGraths, Dooley, Tracey, Furlong, Molony, MK, JVDF, Conan, Ringrose, and hopefully Byrne and Carberry

Returnees: hopefully SOB and original Healy play next season, maybe McCarthy too

[Dave Cahill]

It would be hard for our maul and maul defense to have gotten worse. It got better because we threw outside backs into mauls so that sheer weight of numbers might succeed where technique and coaching have failed.

Our defence, which we all thought was pretty good, ended the season poorly and taking an overview of the season, we have become very hard for poor and mediocre teams to score against. The better teams don't seem to be too put out by it though.

Rob got a much needed hour of game-time under his belt before the squad heads off to South Africa.

[simonokeeffe]

It would be hard for our maul and maul defense to have gotten worse. It got better because we threw outside backs into mauls so that sheer weight of numbers might succeed where technique and coaching have failed.

Our defence, which we all thought was pretty good, ended the season poorly and taking an overview of the season, we have become very hard for poor and mediocre teams to score against. The better teams don't seem to be too put out by it though.

Rob got a much needed hour of game-time under his belt before the squad heads off to South Africa.

we've hit rock bottom

onwards and upwards

[sunshiner1]

I know this is the internet but some of the knee jerk reactions this week have being really over the top. We lost a final it happens on the day. I think Leo is doing well and will continue to improve. Is there stuff I wish he did differently? Of course but overall I'm content that he will bring us forward.

[Dave Cahill]

I know this is the internet but some of the knee jerk reactions this week have being really over the top. We lost a final it happens on the day. I think Leo is doing well and will continue to improve. Is there stuff I wish he did differently? Of course but overall I'm content that he will bring us forward.

Okay so. Lets just take a look at our season overall, so as to avoid 'knee jerk reactions'.

We won one European match. Against a team that sacked their coach after failing to qualify for next season. Our backs scored twice all tournament, both in the same game, a game we conceded 50 points in. We conceded 80 points to wasps. We did not win an away match of any real significance all season. Away from home we beat Treviso, Zebre, Ospreys, Cardiff and Munster. Thats last, second last, 8th, 7th and 6th.

People have argued that the World Cup and all those absences had a negative effect on Leinsters season. Theres another side to that coin though. We have a massive squad, by far the biggest in the league, and we don't really pay for it. We can absorb the loss of 20 players a lot better than any of the Welsh, Scottish and Italian teams can. Perhaps the reason why we made the playoffs was because of the world cup, not despite it.

[Xanthippe]

[Dave Cahill]

Leinster had 20 players at the RWC. 19 with Ireland and one with South Africa

[footrush]

I know this is the internet but some of the knee jerk reactions this week have being really over the top. We lost a final it happens on the day. I think Leo is doing well and will continue to improve. Is there stuff I wish he did differently? Of course but overall I'm content that he will bring us forward.

I'm not having a pop at Leo and I know anyone can loose a final, having been in Edinburgh, Bath, Toulon and Wasps what stung me most was our absolute capitulation in Coventry .... In that instance we just rolled over can't remember having seen that in a very long time Toulouse maybe 15 years ago, High Wycombe when the joker came on to sing chariots ?, Welford Road again over ten years ago ?.... Certainly in Coventry many players gave the sense of not playing for him or the Province in that instance I felt really sorry for him and the few of us who made the journey. I take your point and it's well made but we didn't just loose a final, we have lost most if not all important away fixtures this year. I feel we are becoming like a mid table French league team of the 70's no away form, some aging stars and the fact that we throw the towel in if the fixture is not "relevant" to our progress. If I were Leo would I be happy to be in trench with all of this squad ?.......... I also remember some posters on here making the case that it was a non fixture even before we played the game this made wonder if some over them had ever been to an away fixture?. I know this is a positive string so I'm going to end by saying as far as I'm concerned Leo really cares about the Province and his commitment is absolute (his ability without more targeted support is another issue at the moment), as is the resolve and onfield leadership of some of his senior representatives on the pitch.

[Oldschool]

I know this is the internet but some of the knee jerk reactions this week have being really over the top. We lost a final it happens on the day. I think Leo is doing well and will continue to improve. Is there stuff I wish he did differently? Of course but overall I'm content that he will bring us forward.

Okay so. Lets just take a look at our season overall, so as to avoid 'knee jerk reactions'.

We won one European match. Against a team that sacked their coach after failing to qualify for next season. Our backs scored twice all tournament, both in the same game, a game we conceded 50 points in. We conceded 80 points to wasps. We did not win an away match of any real significance all season. Away from home we beat Treviso, Zebre, Ospreys, Cardiff and Munster. Thats last, second last, 8th, 7th and 6th.

People have argued that the World Cup and all those absences had a negative effect on Leinsters season. Theres another side to that coin though. We have a massive squad, by far the biggest in the league, and we don't really pay for it. We can absorb the loss of 20 players a lot better than any of the Welsh, Scottish and Italian teams can. Perhaps the reason why we made the playoffs was because of the world cup, not despite it.

Good analysis tbf.
The RWC rep did affect us and Glasgow in the main.
Quantity which we had plenty of isn't the same as quality and maybe having fewer options might have forced Leo to make different or better decisions.
Regardless we can only hope that Leo is a fast learner and will make less mistakes next season.
For example picking players who are unfit is a mugs game - It shouldn't have to be said but it always backfires either immediately or in longer term injury down the road for the player.
Or picking Reid at 12 and not trying him on the wing.
Not so much criticism but hope that he'll have learned that he needs to consider all his options and not pigeon hole players.
But as it was his first season in charge he's entitled to be a little bit conservative and play it by the book.
Hopefully his (As I consider it to be) successful first season will embolden him.

[Dave Cahill]

I know this is a positive string so...

There might have been something to have been positive about last January - there isn't now. It has been a dreadful season, our worst since Gary Ella was in charge. The crowds have been cr@p, the rugby has been poor, the air of fragility about the team is palpable, I've never felt more like a customer than this season. If it weren't for the introduction of HH13 in the RDS bars meaning I never have to drink Carlsberg again, this season would have nothing whatsoever to recommend it.

[neiliog93]

Poor season gan dabht but I'd still take this season over last, even in terms of playing style.

[Dave Cahill]

Yes, I love how our new playing style produced fewer tries than last year, didn't appreciably stop more and won only one game of significance.

Style over Substance, the old Leinster is back.

[the spoofer]

I know this is a positive string so...

There might have been something to have been positive about last January - there isn't now. It has been a dreadful season, our worst since Gary Ella was in charge. The crowds have been cr@p, the rugby has been poor, the air of fragility about the team is palpable, I've never felt more like a customer than this season. If it weren't for the introduction of HH13 in the RDS bars meaning I never have to drink Carlsberg again, this season would have nothing whatsoever to recommend it.

Funny Dave but last year was worse for me. Yes, we need to add some age and experience to the coaching ticket but at least we can see some lads coming through:

Malony, Dooley, Ringrose, VDF, Treacy. That alone has made it worthwhile. The negatives for me are things that should be relatively easily fixed such as lineout and maul. I thought J Fogarty could be a top class coach but he might need to go away and learn his trade.

Girve doesn't seem to have been able to spark the backline, I don't know why.

So, I think we need to add a skills coach and a new experienced forwards coach and see what happens. If things haven't improved by this time next year then the future of the coaching team will likely be sealed.

[neiliog93]

5th vs 1st in Pro12 is a huge difference.

[Dave Cahill]

5th vs 1st in Pro12 is a huge difference.

Jaysus.

[Fireworks]

If we were a soccer team there might be a bit of a spring clean of the player roster but we cannot do that for all the reasons everyone is aware of. There may be a little trimming possible but not much. I work in an area where we recognise the importance of culture in an organisation. A good culture does not give a direct return but it does facilitate a return from every other project or initiative you take. JS pointed out where this might be lacking and that this group of players needs to build that for themselves. They may need help and that is where the coaches might also need help as they are guys who did it themselves but not sure they have the skills to facilitate others getting there.

Also with the younger players there is a different dynamic. Leo and Girve are of a generation that grew up with amateur rugby and were lucky to be able to turn it into a job. The current guys coming in always had the professional game to look at and there is a difference in those two outlooks that needs to be kept in mind when building a new culture.

[simonokeeffe]

Yes, I love how our new playing style produced fewer tries than last year, didn't appreciably stop more and won only one game of significance.

Style over Substance, the old Leinster is back.

This season in league we conceded 27 tries and 290 points
MOC season 2 in league we conceded 39 tries and 375 points
MOC season 1 in league we conceded 30 tries and 350 points

[Dave Cahill]

Yes, I love how our new playing style produced fewer tries than last year, didn't appreciably stop more and won only one game of significance.

Style over Substance, the old Leinster is back.

This season in league we conceded 27 tries and 290 points
MOC season 2 in league we conceded 39 tries and 375 points
MOC season 1 in league we conceded 30 tries and 350 points

Yeah, I see how you bent the figures there.

We scored 60 tries and conceded 49 this season
We scored 68 tries and conceded 51 last season

Thats a difference of two whole tries conceded and 8 scored from the same amount of games, albeit at a higher level last season.

So, as I have said, our new playing style produced fewer tries than last year, didn't appreciably stop more.

[simonokeeffe]

Im being relentlessly optimistic and praising improved defence

Not many huge pitches in league but will be interesting to see if more teams target us with wide wide game and how we adapt. Think McQuilkin will see that coming

New midfield will help improve it