Wasps v Leinster Saturday 3.15 BT Sports

[molloyjh]

Undoubtedly the most embarrassing performance I have ever seen. I am so glad I didn't make the journey (I had been considering it) and am so sorry for those who did. Without getting all Munster fans and harping on about pride, that was about as unprofessional a performance from some key players as I have seen. An insult to those fans who paid hard-earned money to travel and support them.

Agree with most everything that has been said. A silly selection was revealed as being that. Still, I assumed the internationals would at least try and play with the 6 Nations in mind - both to prove their worth and because you are less likely to get injured by actually trying to play.

Our two most senior 'leadership' players on the pitch were really poor. I have long thought Kearney was passed his best but, before yesterday, I never thought that about Heaslip and always rushed to his defence. I don't know if he was miffed about missing out on the Ireland captaincy and then having Sexton chosen as captain ahead of him but I found his attitude very poor. They both just assume they are already on the Ireland teamsheet and I really hope Schmidt has the balls to do what no other Irish coach hitherto would do in this situation.

On the flip side, I have never been one to sing Dave Kearney's praises massively but how he managed to emerge looking like the best back on the pitch was a true testament to him. He clearly had a lot to play for and he did all he possibly could to put himself in contention.

If anyone was in any doubt that signing Sexton was a mistake (and to be fair there have been plenty on here unwilling to acknowledge the gravity of his predicament), yesterday put that argument to rest. I really, really hope for the player's sake that he and those around him put his welfare first. If he starts against Wales, it will be irresponsible. Of course, we have nobody even close to replacing him but so effing what? There are more important things.

While I agree with most of the above I don't agree on your assessment of Heaslip. I thought he worked hard but was trying to make up for two sub-standard flankers at the same time and just wasn't getting the help he should have been getting.

As for Sexton I'd be less inclined to rush to diagnose him from a point of almost complete medical ignorance. There are professional medical personnel who we already know are not afraid to advise someone to end their career for the sake of their health. I wouldn't be too quick to second guess them. I am concerned that it is going that way, but if they are willing to pass him fit then I'm comfortable trusting their judgement. I've no reason not to.

[neiliog93]

The worst part watching that second half was that the writing as on the wall. Instead of trying to close the game down and play tight we just flung the ball whilst going backwards. It was like watching a car crash. The worry is that no one in the leadership or coaching team was able to get the message across. I think D'Arcy said in his article a few weeks back something about there being a positive in being difficult to beat. Ie there are going to be games which you know you will lose but at least make the opposition work hard to beat you. All the good work of last week was undone. There are those who will say this was a nothing game etc but I can only imagine the reaction if that was a drubbing we got last year with MOC in charge.

When you're losing and are already out of the competition I think running it from everywhere is the right call. Nothing to lose. The problem was our poor execution, lack of urgency/effort, and the bluntness of the attack.

[molloyjh]

The worst part watching that second half was that the writing as on the wall. Instead of trying to close the game down and play tight we just flung the ball whilst going backwards. It was like watching a car crash. The worry is that no one in the leadership or coaching team was able to get the message across. I think D'Arcy said in his article a few weeks back something about there being a positive in being difficult to beat. Ie there are going to be games which you know you will lose but at least make the opposition work hard to beat you. All the good work of last week was undone. There are those who will say this was a nothing game etc but I can only imagine the reaction if that was a drubbing we got last year with MOC in charge.

When you're losing and are already out of the competition I think running it from everywhere is the right call. Nothing to lose. The problem was our poor execution, lack of urgency/effort, and the bluntness of the attack.

And to be fair we can't be too surprised by that given Reddan just doesn't have the legs any more (thought he had a good first half but visibly tired as the game went on), Marsh was making his European debut (and went well enough all things considered but just isn't at that level yet) and Reid was a long way off the pace. With a weak 9-10-12 we were always going to struggle going forward.

[paddyor]

Agreed that the ref was awful but that was the difference between them scoring 41 and them scoring 51.

Poor show for the fans that paid money to go and see that. Very glad I got a cheap ticket instead of one of the tickets from Leinsters allocation. It was absolutely sickening to watch the second half.

I'm not sure I really follow the criticism of Jordi. We did pretty well in the first half, when he was on. From my view pitchside he got through a lot of work, tied their defenders in. He wasn't around in the second half when it all went to sh!t, and I think we'd have been better keeping him on.

I didn't pay to see it. I stomped around Amsterdam for 40 minutes in a less than sober state trying to find a bar that had BT sports and would show it instead of football before giving up and watching it on the phone in the hotel. Only rugby I saw all weekend was the second half. That's the last time I'll do anything like that. I didn't expect us to win, but to concede 51 is french levels of not giving a damn.

[Oldschool]

The worst part watching that second half was that the writing as on the wall. Instead of trying to close the game down and play tight we just flung the ball whilst going backwards. It was like watching a car crash. The worry is that no one in the leadership or coaching team was able to get the message across. I think D'Arcy said in his article a few weeks back something about there being a positive in being difficult to beat. Ie there are going to be games which you know you will lose but at least make the opposition work hard to beat you. All the good work of last week was undone. There are those who will say this was a nothing game etc but I can only imagine the reaction if that was a drubbing we got last year with MOC in charge.

When you're losing and are already out of the competition I think running it from everywhere is the right call. Nothing to lose. The problem was our poor execution, lack of urgency/effort, and the bluntness of the attack.

A better option would be to practice your patterns.
Concentrate on sorting out basics and use the match as opportunity to consolidate.
Practice being difficult to beat.

[simonokeeffe]

Just to get the conspiracy right: FFR tried to take Johnny out of a 6n game but just with them and not the whole tournament and not a tournament they had a hope in hell in BUT he did injury his groin when he got hit in the head at the world cup?

[curates_egg]

most of the above I don't agree on your assessment of Heaslip. I thought he worked hard but was trying to make up for two sub-standard flankers at the same time and just wasn't getting the help he should have been getting.

Re-reading my rant, I am surprised I didn't mention how utterly blown away the back-row was alright. George Smith was and is phenomenal but Haskell was allowed to look really good out there. I guess that didn't help Jamie's game but it was less his game I was criticising, more his attitude on the pitch as captain. He has always been a 'lead by doing a hell of amount of work' captain but he seemed to let the head drop and the shoulders slump very early in the second half.

[the spoofer]

I'd be interested to hear peoples views on Daly's try. It looked to me like Noel Reid hung Fitzgerald out to dry.

[Dave Cahill]

I'd be interested to hear peoples views on Daly's try. It looked to me like Noel Reid hung Fitzgerald out to dry.

Jaysus, do you want us to watch it again??????

[molloyjh]

most of the above I don't agree on your assessment of Heaslip. I thought he worked hard but was trying to make up for two sub-standard flankers at the same time and just wasn't getting the help he should have been getting.

Re-reading my rant, I am surprised I didn't mention how utterly blown away the back-row was alright. George Smith was and is phenomenal but Haskell was allowed to look really good out there. I guess that didn't help Jamie's game but it was less his game I was criticising, more his attitude on the pitch as captain. He has always been a 'lead by doing a hell of amount of work' captain but he seemed to let the head drop and the shoulders slump very early in the second half.

I'd need to watch the second half again (I won't be) as I was far too busy providing my neighbours kids with a lesson in how to utilise foul language in as colourful a manner as possible. I may have missed a few things as a result.

[molloyjh]

I'd be interested to hear peoples views on Daly's try. It looked to me like Noel Reid hung Fitzgerald out to dry.

He was completely at seas on a couple of occasions positionally which completely shafted those around him. He had no business being on that pitch for as long as he was. He needed to get the hook early in the second half.

[Bogger]

I'd be interested to hear peoples views on Daly's try. It looked to me like Noel Reid hung Fitzgerald out to dry.

He was completely at seas on a couple of occasions positionally which completely shafted those around him. He had no business being on that pitch for as long as he was. He needed to get the hook early in the second half.

Reid didn't have a good day but I guess he was hung out somewhat as well...why Teo wasn't put on from get go is the issue if you were serious about putting in a performance...I like Reid think he has been better than this performance

[Paulie Walnuts]

We lost the second half 36 Nil! The players - almost all internationals - need to hold their hands up. Leo needs to put down a marker for himself and also to hold his hands up!

[Oldschool]

I'd be interested to hear peoples views on Daly's try. It looked to me like Noel Reid hung Fitzgerald out to dry.

He was completely at seas on a couple of occasions positionally which completely shafted those around him. He had no business being on that pitch for as long as he was. He needed to get the hook early in the second half.

Reid didn't have a good day but I guess he was hung out somewhat as well...why Teo wasn't put on from get go is the issue if you were serious about putting in a performance...I like Reid think he has been better than this performance

That's good coaching by Leo. Let the masses see that he can't defend and when he doesn't pick him again, they'll know why.
TBF to him he just doesn't have the size to survive at 12, it's amazing that this bullet hasn't been bitten before this season.
The only position he could possibly???? be considered for on the wing.

[hugonaut]

I'd be interested to hear peoples views on Daly's try. It looked to me like Noel Reid hung Fitzgerald out to dry.

He was completely at seas on a couple of occasions positionally which completely shafted those around him. He had no business being on that pitch for as long as he was. He needed to get the hook early in the second half.

Yeah, still unconvinced by Reid. He's elusive and he can pass beautifully, but he doesn't take enough responsibility on the pitch [to my mind] and he seems to lack the competitive edge you need more and more as you progress up levels. I think that's most obvious in terms of his tackling, which is patty-cake stuff compared to contemporaries like Henshaw, McCloskey, Marshall etc.

Something I've thought of recently about pushing him to take responsibility is getting him back place-kicking. He used to take kicks both at 'A' level and for the Irish U20s [he knocked over 6 conversions in a match at the U20 World Cup against the Scots in 2010 [source: http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/fixtures ... ef=dynamic ]. He's 25 years old, has 50+ Leinster appearances and an Irish cap to his name ... he should be capable of taking more responsibility in games, and pushing that responsibility on him rather than waiting for him to assume it [or not] would force the issue. It'd make him more central to the team's efforts and performances.

At the moment I'd characterise him as centre who sidesteps and passes but doesn't kick or tackle - half a player. Maybe that's harsh. I don't think it's harsh to say that too often he's decorative and not structural.

[neiliog93]

Reid's defence isn't good enough and he doesn't have youth as an excuse any more. He should be let go.

[carlow man]

Have to agree. Can't have a 12 who can't put a tackle and goes missing when the going gets tough. Easy to look good in the rds when it's dry and sunny and we're throwing the ball about. It's just as important when we are away from home and it's backs (no pun intended!!) to the wall stuff. Reid isn't a kid but on Saturday he should have put his hand up when it mattered. But he didn't so I'd rather go with Ben and another academy lad for rest of season.

[alanair]

I really dont understand where this thread is going... and I cannot understand how people with half a rugby brain cant see that quite simply Reid is just not up to it... and when put in a midfield alongside Fitzgerald ( who really needed Teo) was pure lunacy... we weren't set up to give that match a fair crack of the whip, and I think it was an insult to the fans by the Coaching team to select the team they did .

[Pendragon]

Reid's defence isn't good enough and he doesn't have youth as an excuse any more. He should be let go.

Horsh !

[simonokeeffe]

I'd be interested to hear peoples views on Daly's try. It looked to me like Noel Reid hung Fitzgerald out to dry.

He was completely at seas on a couple of occasions positionally which completely shafted those around him. He had no business being on that pitch for as long as he was. He needed to get the hook early in the second half.

Yeah, still unconvinced by Reid. He's elusive and he can pass beautifully, but he doesn't take enough responsibility on the pitch [to my mind] and he seems to lack the competitive edge you need more and more as you progress up levels. I think that's most obvious in terms of his tackling, which is patty-cake stuff compared to contemporaries like Henshaw, McCloskey, Marshall etc.

Something I've thought of recently about pushing him to take responsibility is getting him back place-kicking. He used to take kicks both at 'A' level and for the Irish U20s [he knocked over 6 conversions in a match at the U20 World Cup against the Scots in 2010 [source: http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/fixtures ... ef=dynamic ]. He's 25 years old, has 50+ Leinster appearances and an Irish cap to his name ... he should be capable of taking more responsibility in games, and pushing that responsibility on him rather than waiting for him to assume it [or not] would force the issue. It'd make him more central to the team's efforts and performances.

At the moment I'd characterise him as centre who sidesteps and passes but doesn't kick or tackle - half a player. Maybe that's harsh. I don't think it's harsh to say that too often he's decorative and not structural.

think he used to play 10 and maybe even 15 too?

anything to be said for putting him to 15? doesnt have to defend in the line then