curates_egg wrote:
Despite your projection of authority on the subject, your position is just as questionable as those you are criticising. You are ignoring the fact that even the new HIAs have been criticised as insufficient by professionals and are widely acknowledged to be open to gaming. Players themselves openly admit gaming the tests. So the whole assumption that the protocols and those involved in assessing them are all hunky dory is flawed. .
I don't project any authority on the subject, I've repeatedly said that I don't really know anything about concussion in general or specific players in particular. My problem is people who know as little as me proffering 'medical' opinion on this very serious issue and indeed proffering it as fact.
While I agree with that statement, it probably won't have escaped your attention that medical professionals were also offering their opinions on the subject and expressing concern.
As for the rest of the great unwashed, you can surely forgive some scepticism when people see a player take a bang to the head, appear to lose consciousness and start puking only to be told he injured his groin?
Listen, you claim only the medical professionals that assess him can know but even that is not true if a player is masking symptoms, gaming tests or not fully disclosing information. It is in any case a very complicated issue, as you observe.
Dave Cahill wrote:I don't project any authority on the subject, I've repeatedly said that I don't really know anything about concussion in general or specific players in particular. My problem is people who know as little as me proffering 'medical' opinion on this very serious issue and indeed proffering it as fact.
curates_egg wrote:
Despite your projection of authority on the subject, your position is just as questionable as those you are criticising. You are ignoring the fact that even the new HIAs have been criticised as insufficient by professionals and are widely acknowledged to be open to gaming. Players themselves openly admit gaming the tests. So the whole assumption that the protocols and those involved in assessing them are all hunky dory is flawed. .
I don't project any authority on the subject, I've repeatedly said that I don't really know anything about concussion in general or specific players in particular. My problem is people who know as little as me proffering 'medical' opinion on this very serious issue and indeed proffering it as fact.
While I agree with that statement, it probably won't have escaped your attention that medical professionals were also offering their opinions on the subject and expressing concern.
As for the rest of the great unwashed, you can surely forgive some scepticism when people see a player take a bang to the head, appear to lose consciousness and start puking only to be told he injured his groin?
Listen, you claim only the medical professionals that assess him can know but even that is not true if a player is masking symptoms, gaming tests or not fully disclosing information. It is in any case a very complicated issue, as you observe.
Ah now you're being logical.
That's not allowed.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
curates_egg wrote:
Listen, you claim only the medical professionals that assess him can know but even that is not true if a player is masking symptoms, gaming tests or not fully disclosing information. It is in any case a very complicated issue, as you observe.
No, thats absolutely correct, but whats the answer to that? Theres only so many times that the chamber will be empty if somebody insists of playing Russian Roulette and theres no real way of stopping them putting the pistol in their mouths. And that is what they're doing when they try to play the system. Ultimately they're adults and darwins theory will have its pound of flesh - or 3 pounds in this case.
Professional sport infantilises players. It happens in pretty much every code on both sides of the Atlantic and in both hemispheres. But there are some areas where the sport itself can only take so much responsibility if the players are wilfuly determined to do the wrong thing.
curates_egg wrote:
Listen, you claim only the medical professionals that assess him can know but even that is not true if a player is masking symptoms, gaming tests or not fully disclosing information. It is in any case a very complicated issue, as you observe.
No, thats absolutely correct, but whats the answer to that? Theres only so many times that the chamber will be empty if somebody insists of playing Russian Roulette and theres no real way of stopping them putting the pistol in their mouths. And that is what they're doing when they try to play the system. Ultimately they're adults and darwins theory will have its pound of flesh - or 3 pounds in this case.
Professional sport infantilises players. It happens in pretty much every code on both sides of the Atlantic and in both hemispheres. But there are some areas where the sport itself can only take so much responsibility if the players are wilfuly determined to do the wrong thing.
Thankfully I think those days are numbered.
The rate of advance in miniaturised measuring technology is exponential.
In the not too distant future, on board biometrics will make "cheating " the system almost impossible.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
When the thread was started I don't think that anyone expected Sexton to last longer than Madigan, especially not with Madigan keeping going to 34.
Thanks Ian for many good days, best of luck in retirement. Good career certainly but unfulfilled potential given earlier trajectory. A year in Bordeaux, 2 in Bristol and 3 in Ulster probably not a bad return after an already good Leinster and Ireland career.
RoboProp wrote: ↑September 20th, 2023, 12:54 pm
Best of luck Ian
Is it wrong to still be miffed at Matt O'Connor for misusing him and IMO this lead to him leaving for pastures new.
The damage that was done to players careers should be remembered on the day they retire.
But Madigan played 16 games for Ireland the season he left Leinster (35 total).
Madigan failed to supplant Gopparth, he wasn't going anywhere with Sexton back, he was likely to drop out of Ireland squads with Jackson, Leinster were in a bad place results wise and Carbery was about to break out. And he had offers to pay him elite wages elsewhere.
In some ways it was a rock solid move and he did well with the cards he was holding. It comes down to how inevitable his struggles were after he moved.
But certainly if he had continued to grow his game as it had been under Joe he probably would have developed into a more complete player.
Madigan had serious talent and the work ethic to do anything and address any areas of his game. It was a joy to watch this raw player becoming more polished and adding to his game. Which is why it was so jarring when it stopped and he stalled then collapsed.
