Cardiff v Leinster

[johng]

I was more questioning the assertion that Ross was superior in everything bar mobility in that match. I didn't think he improved the scrum vastly (I thought our scrum was less potent in the second half) and aside from that I don't know what else he did so superior to Furlong

Ah. OK. When I saw that line about Ross being better in everything bar mobility. (Hugo I think) I thought it was a funny one. Like lumping every thing outside the scrum into "mobility"

You could just as easily say that Furlong is better at passing, tackling, running, carrying, and that Ross is only better at scrumaging.

Scrumaging is however job number one. You can be chyte at the rest.....

I think I am agreeing with you. Not sure.

[Ruckedtobits]

I was more questioning the assertion that Ross was superior in everything bar mobility in that match. I didn't think he improved the scrum vastly (I thought our scrum was less potent in the second half) and aside from that I don't know what else he did so superior to Furlong

Ah. OK. When I saw that line about Ross being better in everything bar mobility. (Hugo I think) I thought it was a funny one. Like lumping every thing outside the scrum into "mobility"

You could just as easily say that Furlong is better at passing, tackling, running, carrying, and that Ross is only better at scrumaging.

Scrumaging is however job number one. You can be chyte at the rest.....

I think I am agreeing with you. Not sure.

I am a fan of Furlong but my original assertion, for this game, stands. Ross brought greater stability to our scrum and ensured that Cardiff scrum was underconstant pressure from his arrival. In addition, on all bar two of his tackles, he drove opponents backwards and decked them. In the context of this game, this was crucial as even yards gained by Cardiff created the possibility of conceding a penalty.

Ross will never be a potent ball carrier and Furlong may become one. Furlong can give a pass and Mike rarely tries. But in the 2nd half of THIS game, Ross was immense and gave a clear demonstration as to why he still does the primary jobs of a THP better than any other player in Ireland.

[Donny B.]

Agree with all said .. Except Cardiff's line out stars were almost 100% success... Go figure

Actually they lost 5 out of 13, 62%.
Still better than our miserable 30% only winning 3/10.
Has to be our worst lineout performance ever.

[artaneboy]

How? The scrum looked stronger with Furlong on (and he was scrumming against Gethin Jenkins from the off). Also, Furlong made twice the number of tackles with the same time on the field.

There's no way that the scrum was better with Furlong in for Ross. It clearly improved- now that may have been a factor of other changes too- but Ross was certainly a key influence. Not arguing on Tadgh being better around the field- although Mike did better than his usual trundling; but that's the deal with Ross. He just does the main job- but does it very well and better than any one else currently.

So when you said that Ross was better in every other facet, did you just mean scrummaging?

But I do believe Ross is a better scrummager, but not on the evidence of that match imo. Our best sequence of scrums was up and around their 22 in the first half.

Read what I said again. I never even mentioned anything like "Ross was better in every other facet..."

Scrummaging was where you chose to pitch your main argument- and you just conceded that wasn't tenable. Furlong will overtake Ross in the "main job" (that was my phrase), but he's not there yet. Let's just not over claim on these things. There's no point.

[riocard911]

Credit also to Ian Madigan in the terrible conditions that pertained for his two fantastic crossfield kicks in the first half to Isa and Ferg, both of which very nearly resulted in tries!

[Raydollard]

Madigan was his usual reliable self. Jackson on the other hand is really flakey and will not make the Irish bench.

[Peg Leg]

Madigan was gash

[ChrisUppy]

Madigan was gash

Yep. Certainly didn't think he was the assured and steady hand portrayed above. His distribution was woeful (flinging the ball at knees and faces in those conditions) and didn't give use direction.

Kicked goals well though as usual

[fourthirtythree]

Thought Triggs was going to tear him a new one after being at the receiving the end of one of his "unforgiving" passes when Madigan passed it out from the back of a ruck. The look on him was priceless.

[artaneboy]

Madigan was gash

There'll be tears....

[blockhead]

Full match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaQT169iynQ
The delight on the faces of the lads (Teo and Triggs in particular) at the final whistle is priceless and telling.

[ChrisUppy]

I was more questioning the assertion that Ross was superior in everything bar mobility in that match. I didn't think he improved the scrum vastly (I thought our scrum was less potent in the second half) and aside from that I don't know what else he did so superior to Furlong

Ah. OK. When I saw that line about Ross being better in everything bar mobility. (Hugo I think) I thought it was a funny one. Like lumping every thing outside the scrum into "mobility"

You could just as easily say that Furlong is better at passing, tackling, running, carrying, and that Ross is only better at scrumaging.

Scrumaging is however job number one. You can be chyte at the rest.....

I think I am agreeing with you. Not sure.

I am a fan of Furlong but my original assertion, for this game, stands. Ross brought greater stability to our scrum and ensured that Cardiff scrum was underconstant pressure from his arrival. In addition, on all bar two of his tackles, he drove opponents backwards and decked them. In the context of this game, this was crucial as even yards gained by Cardiff created the possibility of conceding a penalty.

Ross will never be a potent ball carrier and Furlong may become one. Furlong can give a pass and Mike rarely tries. But in the 2nd half of THIS game, Ross was immense and gave a clear demonstration as to why he still does the primary jobs of a THP better than any other player in Ireland.

For the record, and not that it's the only metric of a good scrummager, but in Furlong's time on the pitch (by my lazy count) there were 11 scrums, 3 of which resulted in a penalty for us. In Ross's time on the pitch there were 7 scrums with 1 penalty won for us. Neither conceded penalties.

[the spoofer]

Can I just add how much I despise Peter Fitzgibbon as a referee? He is a blight on the game.

[wixfjord]

The thing that really annoys me about Madigan is that he has all the skills that are most difficult to teach - pace, great from the tee and athleticism.
But he does some crazy things at times. The knock on with nobody around him and the passes bulleted at guys head and feet in that weather, when we needed a bit of territory.

[riocard911]

The thing that really annoys me about Madigan is that he has all the skills that are most difficult to teach - pace, great from the tee and athleticism.
But he does some crazy things at times. The knock on with nobody around him and the passes bulleted at guys head and feet in that weather, when we needed a bit of territory.

Yeah, and kicking the restart against the French straight out with 10 minutes to go. For that alone I'd have PJ on the bench on Saturday v England.

[COYBIB]

The thing that really annoys me about Madigan is that he has all the skills that are most difficult to teach - pace, great from the tee and athleticism.
But he does some crazy things at times. The knock on with nobody around him and the passes bulleted at guys head and feet in that weather, when we needed a bit of territory.

I suppose he's our modern day Contepomi. The problem with Madigan is he's an amazing squad player to have at Leinster. No.22 in our full strength team who can come on and add pace to the game and cause a real attacking threat. He will also fill in when needed as injury cover etc. be it 12 or 15 and do a very competent job.

He's almost the best possible squad player to have with his versatility and impact he can have off the bench, but that's sort of where his role was with Leinster and was unlikely to ever change. A similar role players like Fergus McFadden took on - not quite a starter but top class squad player.

Unfortunately, Madigan wanted more than that and someone else was willing to pay him the money for that role.

Whatever about his inconsistency, you'll struggle to have a back-up 10 and squad player of his ability again. He is a very underestimated loss and was a key player for Leinster even if his preferred position by Leinster was in the 22 jersey.

[jezzer]

I suppose he's our modern day Contepomi. .

? Contepomi raises an eyebrow at your suggestion.

On the game, just want to say two things. Jordi should never play 7 again. And Mick Kearney is already a legend after one game. Guy was awesome. Got totally emptied by Vosawai and instead of lying there and taking a 5 sec breather like any sane individual, guy jumps up and clears out a ruck where we almost coughed up possession. Brilliant little cameo of a great debut performance.

[molloyjh]

On the game, just want to say two things. Jordi should never play 7 again. And Mick Kearney is already a legend after one game. Guy was awesome. Got totally emptied by Vosawai and instead of lying there and taking a 5 sec breather like any sane individual, guy jumps up and clears out a ruck where we almost coughed up possession. Brilliant little cameo of a great debut performance.

Yeah I was very impressed with Kearney all right. Got through a lot of work, had a few decent carries, got off the line quick and made some big hits.

On the game overall you can't really judge much of the first 60-70 mins because of the weather. It was one of those games where it was actually easier playing into the wind. While we dominated for large parts and, like Ireland, didn't get the scores from that it was always going to be hard to convert pressure into points in those conditions. A couple of things stood out though. Madigan was pretty poor. I know it wasn't really the day for a player like him but his passing at times wasn't great and he never imposed himself on the game at all. Reddan was actually far superior IMO. Managed and controlled things far better throughout. And not only did he last the full 80, but he also was the one to charge down that drop goal at the end (bloody hero!). A lot of people have written him off but he still has a bit left in the tank yet.

I'd love to know who was calling the line-outs. Was it Triggs? Why in Gods name did we go long at so many in those conditions? Cronin isn't renowned for his darts in good weather, that was just taking the piss. And after seeing a few go astray you'd think you'd tighten it up a bit. When we finally did Triggs wasn't the requisite 5m. That was really disappointing. Although not as disappointing as Murphys yellow card. How utterly stupid was that!? I hope he got an earful over it because that very nearly cost us the game. And up to that point we were cruising. Our defence was soaking up everything Cardiff had to offer and they weren't really threatening us at all.

Our defence was excellent though. And some of our tackles were really dominant. It's always good to see the opposition being driven back like that and we were doing that quite often. We had said before the game that Cardiff were scoring a lot of tries, especially at home, but until Murphys yellow they never really troubled our line at all. Kurt has been doing a really good job there. Guys like Triggs, Ruddock and Conan got through a hell of a lot of tackles. Conan himself looked good in his first game back, especially for someone who was limping around the RDS the previous week. I hope the rumours of him to Ulster aren't true. One guy who I thought acquitted himself well, albeit very quietly, was Ringrose. He didn't have a huge amount to do but he worked hard around the pitch and was doing a lot of the right things on a day that just was not for outside backs at all. I was paying specific attention to him as I wanted to see how he'd do on days like that and he didn't disappoint. Just got on with the work that needed to be done as effectively as he could.

[Dave Cahill]

Just watching this again, Reddan really badly mismanaged the last 5 minutes or so.

[molloyjh]

Just watching this again, Reddan really badly mismanaged the last 5 minutes or so.

Was it Redser? I don't really remember the last 5 mins with any great clarity. I thought our ball protection was just really bad off that last line out?