I don't get this "sixth choice backrower" thing. It's not like all the backrow positions are exactly the same. Ryan is second choice blindsidesimonokeeffe wrote:He's never been a block busting carrier and never will be but his work rate was phenomenal (Ruddock was a bit disappointing)Donny B. wrote:Put in a few decent hits but knocked on from Kirchner in one of our few decent attacking moves. Also when in space on an overlap failed to even look for his two support runners and ran blindly into contact. Carried a lot but to little real effect. Decent squad man but that's about it. Probably best for him to move on.simonokeeffe wrote:on a more positive note Ryan was excellent again but dont know if that just puts him in the shop window more
I'd like him to stay for Leinster's sake but for his own sake he really should move, he's good enough to start in the premiership, too good to be a 6th choice backrower
Connacht vs Leinster 26th March K/O @ 17:15
Moderator: moderators
-
- Mullet
- Posts: 1592
- Joined: March 18th, 2015, 1:20 am
Re: Connacht vs Leinster 26th March K/O @ 17:15
- curates_egg
- Seán Cronin
- Posts: 3763
- Joined: November 29th, 2011, 3:50 pm
- Location: Brussels, Belgium
Re: Connacht vs Leinster 26th March K/O @ 17:15
He was poor. If you can't see that, then you are being blinded by some factor: maybe your desire to see him come good. I get that a lot of people see real potential in him and hope he is going to be a great player for us...I presume everyone wants us to finally develop a decent scrum half...but you can't ignore that he has had a lot of poor games this season. This was one. Now, maybe he was also being given bad tactics/instructions but his execution of those tactics was simply poor. To deny that is to do both him and yourself a disservice. We all pick the players we like, and defend them maybe when they don't deserve it. I have certainly been guilty of that.LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Really don't get the Luke McGrath stuff.
Madigan was utter muck yesterday. Probably his worst performance ever. But McGrath was poor.
No. And that is the point. His role in our exits kept us pinned back in our 22 for large parts of the game. It was only through our continually excellent defence and Connacht's lack of incisive attack that we kept them to 7 points. The try was a down to 2 parts luck, 1 part lazy covering and some pretty impressive skill and commitment from Marmion.LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Would people really have preferred us to keep playing around our 22?
Re: Connacht vs Leinster 26th March K/O @ 17:15
Have to agree.Donny B. wrote:I was behind the goals so it was hard to see clearly some of the decisions Owens made but we can't blame him when it was clear Leinster weren't at the races from the first minute.
I have to say it was one of the dumbest Leinster performance I've ever seen. A perfect example was McGrath box-kicking into a gale force wind that effectively returned the ball to where he kicked it. It didn't work the first five times, but hey maybe the sixth is the charm? Leinster were a dull minded team yesterday and credit to Connacht, who played brighter and smarter rugby and deserved their win.
Leinster have now managed no tries and just 15 points in their last 200 minutes of rugby.
Both the players and coaches need a kick in the arse this week cause that sh!t yesterday was unacceptable.
Saracens played Exeter yesterday. Saracens played into a very strong wind in the first half and I can't recall them box kicking once. They played common sense rugby into the wind. They were leading 12-6 at half time.
We were all over the place playing into the wind yesterday. Madigan was just terrible. He should have given McGrath some direction but he just went into hiding.
Leo and the team would have questions too. To employ those tactics into the wind in the first half was baffling.
Re: Connacht vs Leinster 26th March K/O @ 17:15
Leo in his pre-match chat on Sky mentioned keeping possession of the ball in the first half when we were playing uphill into the wind. I'm not sure where box kicking fitted into that plan.
"That was shiterarse coaches need to look at themselves this is as bad at is.beem with school. Items impeovrnkyb neefedc"
Golf Man sums up the mood of a nation
Golf Man sums up the mood of a nation
-
- Graduate
- Posts: 730
- Joined: September 19th, 2010, 12:03 pm
Re: Connacht vs Leinster 26th March K/O @ 17:15
Mostly what I saw were knock-ons, dropped passes, crazy box kicks and a non-functioning scrum. Also I saw a side full of well-paid top-notch test players that found it impossible to overcome a workmanlike side that played with great spirit. If the limit of our ambition is to do well in a Mickey Mouse Pro12 where four of the top five are Irish teams, then good luck with that but I'm out of here..
- LeRouxIsPHat
- Jamie Heaslip
- Posts: 15008
- Joined: January 22nd, 2009, 7:49 pm
Re: Connacht vs Leinster 26th March K/O @ 17:15
Trust me there's no bias on my part. But I've always felt compelled to defend certain guys who get picked on because they had certain flaws in their game and then that feeling of them being poor players remains despite them having moved past them...same with Dev, Darce and a good few others in the past.curates_egg wrote:He was poor. If you can't see that, then you are being blinded by some factor: maybe your desire to see him come good. I get that a lot of people see real potential in him and hope he is going to be a great player for us...I presume everyone wants us to finally develop a decent scrum half...but you can't ignore that he has had a lot of poor games this season. This was one. Now, maybe he was also being given bad tactics/instructions but his execution of those tactics was simply poor. To deny that is to do both him and yourself a disservice. We all pick the players we like, and defend them maybe when they don't deserve it. I have certainly been guilty of that.LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Really don't get the Luke McGrath stuff.
Madigan was utter muck yesterday. Probably his worst performance ever. But McGrath was poor.
No. And that is the point. His role in our exits kept us pinned back in our 22 for large parts of the game. It was only through our continually excellent defence and Connacht's lack of incisive attack that we kept them to 7 points. The try was a down to 2 parts luck, 1 part lazy covering and some pretty impressive skill and commitment from Marmion.LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Would people really have preferred us to keep playing around our 22?
Anyway, I'll leave it after this but essentially you have a problem with our 9 box kicking poorly into an exceptionally strong wind when we needed to clear our lines. I find that just plain wrong. He had to try kicking...he did...and the wind scuppered us. It meant we backed our defence instead of our phase play in our own 22 and quite frankly it worked.
And as for the lazy covering comment, I explained that on a previous page. It was Ringrose who got sucked in towards Niyi when McGrath and Isa had him covered. Not McGrath's fault in the slightest. He tried his best to get back and the bounce went away from him. Watch the replay and you'll see that Ringrose pretty much had no impact on the play. Now he's an incredibly good defender but he messed up a bit there. Wouldn't have been an issue if the bounce hadnt gone Connacht's way but there's certainly no blame to be laid at McGrath's door.
- simonokeeffe
- Jamie Heaslip
- Posts: 16777
- Joined: July 21st, 2011, 3:04 am
- Location: Dublin
- Contact:
Re: Connacht vs Leinster 26th March K/O @ 17:15
ok it is fluid but if we've all our fit players available he still needs several injuries to make the 23leinsterforever wrote:I don't get this "sixth choice backrower" thing. It's not like all the backrow positions are exactly the same. Ryan is second choice blindsidesimonokeeffe wrote: He's never been a block busting carrier and never will be but his work rate was phenomenal (Ruddock was a bit disappointing)
I'd like him to stay for Leinster's sake but for his own sake he really should move, he's good enough to start in the premiership, too good to be a 6th choice backrower
its just one way of putting hes aways down the pecking order
Retired from babbling. Can be found on twittter @okeeffesimon
-
- Mullet
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: October 13th, 2014, 9:07 pm
Re: Connacht vs Leinster 26th March K/O @ 17:15
Yeah I was drinking while writing so wasn't paying as close attention. Thanks for the constructive criticism.Who's "we" and "us" in this? Leinster or Connacht?
Apparently Owens was down with the flu and wasn't sure if he'd be able to ref the whole game. Also the audio between the ref and touch judges wasn't working for the first half.
Re: Connacht vs Leinster 26th March K/O @ 17:15
It all comes back to not having a pick and go option. Repetitive I know but as they say FACTLeRouxIsPHat wrote:Have to say its pretty annoying when I outline in detail why it was difficult to do anything else and why the kicks were tough but then you resort to saying I'm on a crusade to defend his honour.Donny B. wrote:Ah will you stop!! I know you're on a McGrath crusade to defend his honour but those kicks were ridiculous. Yes, Madigan was appalling and plenty of others were too, but repeatedly box-kicking into such a strong wind was completely daft. Faced into the same wind, Connacht mainly hung onto the ball and trusted their skills to go through phases. If you have to kick work space for a grubber to try to take the wind out of the equation.LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Surprised at how negative that is Donny/others. Madigan was a shining beacon of rubbish yesterday and there were a few annoying mistakes (Dippy dropping the ball, Zane's stupid kicks being big ones, Reddan kicking out on the full) but overall I didn't think it was that bad at all. It was a ferocious match in very tough conditions away to the best side in the league.
Really don't get the Luke McGrath stuff. Would people really have preferred us to keep playing around our 22? The kicks werent good but would it not have been suicide to hang them up for chasers when the wind was that strong? Madigan should have taken more responsibility too, he clearly wasn't at the races alright and I said before the game that I didn't think we were set up to take advantage of Connacht's weaknesses due to Madigan/the conditions but it was even worse than I'd imagined. But no matter who took the responsibility or what tactics we used in that first half it was going to be very difficult to get any kind of territory. Any time we did manage to launch it long it just came straight back at us.
The worrying thing is McGrath was box-kicking so often, it would indicate that he was following orders from the coaches and that's a real worry.
Had we not tried to clear our lines it would have been madness too. We tried, we failed, we stopped doing it. You cant just keep doing the same thing and the first option to reach for is definitely just clearing your lines through the boot. The idea that Connacht's tactics were so good is nonsense, remember Matt Healy throwing a hospital pass in their 22 for example?
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
Re: Connacht vs Leinster 26th March K/O @ 17:15
You just didn't know the good spotsCOYBIB wrote: On a side note, it was my first time in Galway for a match. Arguably the biggest league match in Connachts history, possibly the first league match they've ever sold out, and I thought the pubs and atmosphere was very quiet pre and post match (especially considering it was a Saturday night too), virtually zero rugby bants to be had, maybe only saw one or two Connacht jerseys around the town, saw pockets of groups of Leinster fans in pubs...it was strange. That was kind of the part I was looking forward to the most. It's no Limerick city after a rugby match, that's for sure.
Re: Connacht vs Leinster 26th March K/O @ 17:15
On you go please and thank you. If you stick around I know what we can expect next year; an update every time Madigan kicks a pen and plenty of sh*te about "what we're missing".Raydollard wrote:If the limit of our ambition is to do well in a Mickey Mouse Pro12 where four of the top five are Irish teams, then good luck with that but I'm out of here..
-
- Mullet
- Posts: 1592
- Joined: March 18th, 2015, 1:20 am
Re: Connacht vs Leinster 26th March K/O @ 17:15
I suppose he is in direct competition with Conan, Murphy and Leavy (I''m excluding JvdF because he'll be starting more often than not with SOB unavailable so much) for the no. 20 jersey. I don't know if regular gametime off the bench would be enough to make him want to staysimonokeeffe wrote:ok it is fluid but if we've all our fit players available he still needs several injuries to make the 23leinsterforever wrote:I don't get this "sixth choice backrower" thing. It's not like all the backrow positions are exactly the same. Ryan is second choice blindsidesimonokeeffe wrote: He's never been a block busting carrier and never will be but his work rate was phenomenal (Ruddock was a bit disappointing)
I'd like him to stay for Leinster's sake but for his own sake he really should move, he's good enough to start in the premiership, too good to be a 6th choice backrower
its just one way of putting hes aways down the pecking order
- Peg Leg
- Rob Kearney
- Posts: 9823
- Joined: February 1st, 2010, 5:08 pm
- Location: Procrastinasia
- Contact:
Re: Connacht vs Leinster 26th March K/O @ 17:15
Ah Ray, we can do better. Don't go! Bordeaux's grand for a holiday but it's overrun with Chinese vinyard owners now.Raydollard wrote:Mostly what I saw were knock-ons, dropped passes, crazy box kicks and a non-functioning scrum. Also I saw a side full of well-paid top-notch test players that found it impossible to overcome a workmanlike side that played with great spirit. If the limit of our ambition is to do well in a Mickey Mouse Pro12 where four of the top five are Irish teams, then good luck with that but I'm out of here..
"It was Mrs O'Leary's cow"
Daniel Sullivan
Daniel Sullivan
- fourthirtythree
- Leo Cullen
- Posts: 10726
- Joined: April 12th, 2008, 11:33 pm
- Location: Eight miles high
Re: Connacht vs Leinster 26th March K/O @ 17:15
I respect your opinion but McGrath had a mare box kicking repeatedly and unsuccessfully. The third I a row was a beaut as running it out was clearly on.LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Trust me there's no bias on my part. But I've always felt compelled to defend certain guys who get picked on because they had certain flaws in their game and then that feeling of them being poor players remains despite them having moved past them...same with Dev, Darce and a good few others in the past.curates_egg wrote:He was poor. If you can't see that, then you are being blinded by some factor: maybe your desire to see him come good. I get that a lot of people see real potential in him and hope he is going to be a great player for us...I presume everyone wants us to finally develop a decent scrum half...but you can't ignore that he has had a lot of poor games this season. This was one. Now, maybe he was also being given bad tactics/instructions but his execution of those tactics was simply poor. To deny that is to do both him and yourself a disservice. We all pick the players we like, and defend them maybe when they don't deserve it. I have certainly been guilty of that.LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Really don't get the Luke McGrath stuff.
Madigan was utter muck yesterday. Probably his worst performance ever. But McGrath was poor.
No. And that is the point. His role in our exits kept us pinned back in our 22 for large parts of the game. It was only through our continually excellent defence and Connacht's lack of incisive attack that we kept them to 7 points. The try was a down to 2 parts luck, 1 part lazy covering and some pretty impressive skill and commitment from Marmion.LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Would people really have preferred us to keep playing around our 22?
Anyway, I'll leave it after this but essentially you have a problem with our 9 box kicking poorly into an exceptionally strong wind when we needed to clear our lines. I find that just plain wrong. He had to try kicking...he did...and the wind scuppered us. It meant we backed our defence instead of our phase play in our own 22 and quite frankly it worked.
And as for the lazy covering comment, I explained that on a previous page. It was Ringrose who got sucked in towards Niyi when McGrath and Isa had him covered. Not McGrath's fault in the slightest. He tried his best to get back and the bounce went away from him. Watch the replay and you'll see that Ringrose pretty much had no impact on the play. Now he's an incredibly good defender but he messed up a bit there. Wouldn't have been an issue if the bounce hadnt gone Connacht's way but there's certainly no blame to be laid at McGrath's door.
He also was late covering for the try. He didn't think the bounce was on and didn't follow it. Had he done so he should have competed for the ball with Marmion.
He was also bullied off the ball on our scrums. In the match in Dublin Reddan milked a couple of penalties out of Marmion being offside and playing his opposition number off the ball.
He had a really bad game, both our half backs did.
Re: Connacht vs Leinster 26th March K/O @ 17:15
Hopefully he's OK. It was great to see him back starting and worrying to see him go off injured.Oldschoolsocks wrote:Any updates on Luke Fitz?
- artaneboy
- Shane Horgan
- Posts: 4206
- Joined: January 25th, 2011, 7:46 pm
- Location: closer than you think...
Re: Connacht vs Leinster 26th March K/O @ 17:15
Jaysus- will ye let him sulk off!?Peg Leg wrote:Ah Ray, we can do better. Don't go! Bordeaux's grand for a holiday but it's overrun with Chinese vinyard owners now.Raydollard wrote:Mostly what I saw were knock-ons, dropped passes, crazy box kicks and a non-functioning scrum. Also I saw a side full of well-paid top-notch test players that found it impossible to overcome a workmanlike side that played with great spirit. If the limit of our ambition is to do well in a Mickey Mouse Pro12 where four of the top five are Irish teams, then good luck with that but I'm out of here..
"Oh, I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused!"
-
- Graduate
- Posts: 730
- Joined: September 19th, 2010, 12:03 pm
Re: Connacht vs Leinster 26th March K/O @ 17:15
We were really very narrow in our attacking set-up. Madigan tried to widen the line by throwing skip passes but we remained bunched and narrow.
- Oldschoolsocks
- Shane Horgan
- Posts: 4945
- Joined: January 4th, 2015, 10:36 am
- Location: Stepping out of the Supernova
Re: Connacht vs Leinster 26th March K/O @ 17:15
and there was me thinking he was trying to widen our attacking line by blousing out of tackles and getting blocked down twice...Raydollard wrote:We were really very narrow in our attacking set-up. Madigan tried to widen the line by throwing skip passes but we remained bunched and narrow.
- artaneboy
- Shane Horgan
- Posts: 4206
- Joined: January 25th, 2011, 7:46 pm
- Location: closer than you think...
Re: Connacht vs Leinster 26th March K/O @ 17:15
It took you two days to construct that rationalisation? Gallant Ian failed by those around him- Jeez!Raydollard wrote:We were really very narrow in our attacking set-up. Madigan tried to widen the line by throwing skip passes but we remained bunched and narrow.
Anyway- aren't you supposed to be packing for Bordeaux
"Oh, I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused!"
Re: Connacht vs Leinster 26th March K/O @ 17:15
You just keep on digging. Are you seriously saying that when you're playing into a gale force wind it's only right and proper to try a half dozen box kicks just to see if it's too windy for them to work. And while I wouldn't blame McGrath for not covering back in time for Marmion's try, it was his shitty box kick that gave them the ball in the first place.LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Have to say its pretty annoying when I outline in detail why it was difficult to do anything else and why the kicks were tough but then you resort to saying I'm on a crusade to defend his honour.Donny B. wrote:Ah will you stop!! I know you're on a McGrath crusade to defend his honour but those kicks were ridiculous. Yes, Madigan was appalling and plenty of others were too, but repeatedly box-kicking into such a strong wind was completely daft. Faced into the same wind, Connacht mainly hung onto the ball and trusted their skills to go through phases. If you have to kick work space for a grubber to try to take the wind out of the equation.LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Surprised at how negative that is Donny/others. Madigan was a shining beacon of rubbish yesterday and there were a few annoying mistakes (Dippy dropping the ball, Zane's stupid kicks being big ones, Reddan kicking out on the full) but overall I didn't think it was that bad at all. It was a ferocious match in very tough conditions away to the best side in the league.
Really don't get the Luke McGrath stuff. Would people really have preferred us to keep playing around our 22? The kicks werent good but would it not have been suicide to hang them up for chasers when the wind was that strong? Madigan should have taken more responsibility too, he clearly wasn't at the races alright and I said before the game that I didn't think we were set up to take advantage of Connacht's weaknesses due to Madigan/the conditions but it was even worse than I'd imagined. But no matter who took the responsibility or what tactics we used in that first half it was going to be very difficult to get any kind of territory. Any time we did manage to launch it long it just came straight back at us.
The worrying thing is McGrath was box-kicking so often, it would indicate that he was following orders from the coaches and that's a real worry.
Had we not tried to clear our lines it would have been madness too. We tried, we failed, we stopped doing it. You cant just keep doing the same thing and the first option to reach for is definitely just clearing your lines through the boot.