molloyjh wrote:goreyguy wrote:I have said repeatedly that the blame is not solely on Dempsey, i've described how I felt the underage game wasn't as condusive to developing highly talented backs, it's a mixture of factors as I've said repeatedly. But ignore that why don't you.
When leinster rugby goes several years without producing a high quality back then that's all the evidence I need, then when you dig down further and see talented players, even if they are not elite, not improving as rugby players it give you further evidence. Again as I'v said previously, in the leinster academy you either are elite or very close to it upon entry and therefore move quickly through the system, or you spend 3 years "developing" into a championship level player. This isn't just about Dempsey, it's about the whole system of leinster back development this decade spanning from underage level to senior professional.
But as I've pointed out before for the majority of the last several years we haven't needed to produce those backs because of the guys we've had in situ. And yet in that time we've brought through guys like Luke McGrath, Ian Madigan, Ian McKinley, Eoin O'Malley, Niall Morris, Gary Ringrose and Dave Kearney. Are you really sure we've been as bad as you say we have? Or are you just looking at our current predicament and fitting your narrative around that? Because as I said before it's very difficult to seamlessly manage the transition we've had to.
You realise most of those players were never even 1st choice players for leinster, some may have been but injury intervened, others could be in the future and others weren't good enough to be.
Over the past 3 years there has been a need for young talented backs to step up.. leinster just hadn't developed capable of doing so until Ringrose/McGrath this season. Look at how much gametime Darragh Fanning has gotten, the need to bring back Nacewa, the signing of Teo and now Henshaw, Kirchner, the inability of either Reid or Macken to step up, the unwillingness to give Cooney/McGrath gametime.
You said it yourself that leinster have stopped producing as many elite backs as they did at the end of the last decade, id go as far as saying they've stopped producing as many very good backs than back then too. It's miarad of factors as ive stated before, but I still stand by my statement that only backs who are elite talents joining the academy really push on, most of the backs who join the academy spends 3 years "developing" and end up elsewhere or backups, personally I don't think that is maximising the talent coming through the academy.
And yes there is a need for young talented backs in the senior setup, thankfully we saw an improvement this year Ringrose/McGrath possible emerging as future 1st choice backs and the byrnes getting gametime. But leinster needs more and i'm unconvinced that the academy will be able to provide much more and that's because I don't believe the talent joining the academy, that needs time to develop and improve, will do that. Certainly not as well as if they were with Connacht.
Just look at this years u20 class, none of those backs are elite talents.. will any of them really improve enough in the leinster academy to one day be anything more than squad players at leinster? They all have talent but will it maxmised in the leinster academy? I don't think so. If Kelleher does leave, it's fairly damning verdict on how he felt things were going at leinster and at connacht and which team offered the better chance to improve and develop. I wouldn't blame him for heading west, they certainly improve players, even ones leinster deemed not good enough.