Successful first year for Leo?

[deco]

How can it be that what is supposed a leading club in European rugby can go through two successive seasons with no skills coach? Surely, by any standards, this is a monumental failure of management?

+1

What makes you think Leinster's owners want us to be a leading club in European rugby?

[Dave Cahill]

Ah but I am not disagreeing with you that standards have fallen. But did anyone who was in Bordeaux in 2012 really think we hadn't reached the apex? I'd love us to get back to that standard but I just don't see it as realistic AT PRESENT, given the changed economic landscape of the game. What I want us to do is to perform to our potential and I would definitely agree that we are not. I also never imagined we would get Leo as a head coach and certainly don't think it is a great outcome for the club. But you would want to be pretty pig-headed to still insist that MOC did a good job here. You shrewdly refer to the semi final but ignore the fact that we got a cr@p group in Europe because he didn't put any work into the league. There is nothing inconsistent with believing he did a bad job and also recognising that Leo is not necessarily an improvement. We went backwards under MOC and are not yet going forward again.

Now I look at the fact that we will have a better seeding for the draw for Europe next year and the fact we have definitely developed our squad this year as a glass half-full scenario.
Of course, again, I would prefer if we had better coaches and were progressing but, given the hand we were given at the start of the year (cr@p Euro group, missing loads of players for loads of the season, new and unqualified coaches), I think the balance sheet is almost as good as could be expected...which gives us a platform to improve on. So, I would say - in the context - Leo and co had an ok first year. That is not the same as me saying I think that the current coaching ticket is optimal.

What I want to know is: what is your point? You want all our coaches sacked? You really want Kurt sacked? Should we start a #KurtOut thread for you? Who do you realistically think we will get in their place?
I naively thought we would be able to replace MOC with a better coach. When I look at the coaches in the other provinces, I still struggle to understand how we didn't but we are where we are.
I definitely hope we will be able to, at the very least, add to our coaching ticket very soon. However, I think it is also reasonable to acknowledge that this season was about as good as could have been expected in the circumstances.

My point is quite simple, and it is exactly the same as it was 12 months ago. We don't need to be moving coaches on, we need to be moving coaches in. Professional sports teams move in a series of peaks and and that also means troughs, you can't avoid them its an absolute law of the universe - all you can do is minimise them, but everytime you hit the reset button the trough gets longer. We've already hit it twice.

I don't accept that our European group was all that tough either. Bath are rubbish and lost to a team coached by Matt O'Connor, Wasps weren't good enough to beat a team coached by Matt O'Connor, Toulon needed extra time to beat a team coached by Matt O'Connor. You can't have it both ways!

[curates_egg]

My point is quite simple, and it is exactly the same as it was 12 months ago. We don't need to be moving coaches on, we need to be moving coaches in.

That is a line you must have on a copy-paste list. But if you don't want to be moving coaches on - on the one hand - and are saying that coaches we have are not good enough - on the other hand - do you not see a conflict there?
Also, you have me down as some kind of diehard MOCouter. I came to that party quite late.

I will fully admit I was naive in my belief we would attract a top-end coach...but then again I don't think it was that naive when you look at the coaches at the other provinces.
The question I still have, which is unanswered, is why do we (the province with arguably the best resources and potential for continual growth) have (I think it's fair to say without offending them) the weakest/most inexperienced coaching ticket?
It's not because of the IRFU - because it has been made pretty clear they didn't want Leo. The IRFU seem to help the other provinces get their coaches...do they not do that for us? Or do we refuse the help?
I'd love it if someone could explain this to me.

[leinsterforever]

Ah but I am not disagreeing with you that standards have fallen. But did anyone who was in Bordeaux in 2012 really think we hadn't reached the apex? I'd love us to get back to that standard but I just don't see it as realistic AT PRESENT, given the changed economic landscape of the game. What I want us to do is to perform to our potential and I would definitely agree that we are not. I also never imagined we would get Leo as a head coach and certainly don't think it is a great outcome for the club. But you would want to be pretty pig-headed to still insist that MOC did a good job here. You shrewdly refer to the semi final but ignore the fact that we got a cr@p group in Europe because he didn't put any work into the league. There is nothing inconsistent with believing he did a bad job and also recognising that Leo is not necessarily an improvement. We went backwards under MOC and are not yet going forward again.

Now I look at the fact that we will have a better seeding for the draw for Europe next year and the fact we have definitely developed our squad this year as a glass half-full scenario.
Of course, again, I would prefer if we had better coaches and were progressing but, given the hand we were given at the start of the year (cr@p Euro group, missing loads of players for loads of the season, new and unqualified coaches), I think the balance sheet is almost as good as could be expected...which gives us a platform to improve on. So, I would say - in the context - Leo and co had an ok first year. That is not the same as me saying I think that the current coaching ticket is optimal.

What I want to know is: what is your point? You want all our coaches sacked? You really want Kurt sacked? Should we start a #KurtOut thread for you? Who do you realistically think we will get in their place?
I naively thought we would be able to replace MOC with a better coach. When I look at the coaches in the other provinces, I still struggle to understand how we didn't but we are where we are.
I definitely hope we will be able to, at the very least, add to our coaching ticket very soon. However, I think it is also reasonable to acknowledge that this season was about as good as could have been expected in the circumstances.

My point is quite simple, and it is exactly the same as it was 12 months ago. We don't need to be moving coaches on, we need to be moving coaches in. Professional sports teams move in a series of peaks and and that also means troughs, you can't avoid them its an absolute law of the universe - all you can do is minimise them, but everytime you hit the reset button the trough gets longer. We've already hit it twice.

I don't accept that our European group was all that tough either. Bath are rubbish and lost to a team coached by Matt O'Connor, Wasps weren't good enough to beat a team coached by Matt O'Connor, Toulon needed extra time to beat a team coached by Matt O'Connor. You can't have it both ways!

Wasps were quite a bit better than they were last season, although I agree about the group not being that tough overall. Toulon were powerful but unimpressive, and Bath were pretty soft.

Too much is made of seedings in my opinion. Wasps won the group as a fourth seed, and even if you get a high seeding you're only going to be playing the same teams anyway, who've been pushed down because you've gone up. Seedings are only notional when it comes to strength. Having a low seeding is no excuse to perform poorly. If the team is good enough it shouldn't have that much of an impact

[Raydollard]

It starts at the top and Cullen should shoulder the responsibility for not doing a job properly. The gravy train got him the coaching job in the first place, which should not have happened, but he has been an abject failure. He should go and then a new coach should be given the opportunity to appoint his own team. Pat Lam knows that the responsibility lies in the first place with the coach.

[curates_egg]

It starts at the top and Cullen should shoulder the responsibility for not doing a job properly. The gravy train got him the coaching job in the first place, which should not have happened, but he has been an abject failure. He should go and then a new coach should be given the opportunity to appoint his own team. Pat Lam knows that the responsibility lies in the first place with the coach.

Madigan for player-coach?

[jezzer]

You can't unring a bell.


(This is not a promotional post for EOS as skills coach)

[Ruckedtobits]

It starts at the top and Cullen should shoulder the responsibility for not doing a job properly. The gravy train got him the coaching job in the first place, which should not have happened, but he has been an abject failure. He should go and then a new coach should be given the opportunity to appoint his own team. Pat Lam knows that the responsibility lies in the first place with the coach.

So, you have the hard opinion Ray, name us three viable and available options as Head Coach and the logic for your suggestions.

[Raydollard]

Great to see Madigan getting the vintage claret after three seasons of wilful neglect.