Pro12 Final

[cormac]

Back 3 players of the world please apply, we could do with at least one and still have room for the likes of Byrne to get a chance.
I don't see it happening with Nacewa and Kirchner on the books, so we may have another year of a mediocre attack.

Not sure that would make a whole lot of difference to be honest. Our back three are no great shakes but we're not able to give them enough decent ball to do anything with. The problem starts with the speed of ball we deliver at the breakdown and is then exacerbated along the backline due to poor skills and poor play-calling.

[Fireworks]

Back 3 players of the world please apply, we could do with at least one and still have room for the likes of Byrne to get a chance.
I don't see it happening with Nacewa and Kirchner on the books, so we may have another year of a mediocre attack.

Not sure that would make a whole lot of difference to be honest. Our back three are no great shakes but we're not able to give them enough decent ball to do anything with. The problem starts with the speed of ball we deliver at the breakdown and is then exacerbated along the backline due to poor skills and poor play-calling.

I would think that any changes in playing personnel would have to wait until the coaching is addressed. We have some top drawer guys who need to focus on skills levels and need coaches with systems that work. The current coaches may have it but they need to start showing it early next season.

[Fred Funk]

Back 3 players of the world please apply, we could do with at least one and still have room for the likes of Byrne to get a chance.
I don't see it happening with Nacewa and Kirchner on the books, so we may have another year of a mediocre attack.

Not sure that would make a whole lot of difference to be honest. Our back three are no great shakes but we're not able to give them enough decent ball to do anything with. The problem starts with the speed of ball we deliver at the breakdown and is then exacerbated along the backline due to poor skills and poor play-calling.

I would think that any changes in playing personnel would have to wait until the coaching is addressed. We have some top drawer guys who need to focus on skills levels and need coaches with systems that work. The current coaches may have it but they need to start showing it early next season.

Top Drawer like who?

[Slowcentre]

Disappointing. There is an old line about not being able to win a game without a scrum which got totally disproved.

The forwards are ok but our back play is not at the races. The skill level drop since Joe's days is shocking. Leinster at their best from a few years ago would have won that game but now we had no idea how to stay in it.

Nail on head there. It was incredibly noticeable how many poor passes behind the man, knock ons and just generally poor errors we made, when compared to Conancht's crisp passing and Muldowney flinging balls around.
Skill level should be a simple enough thing to focus on and get right, and you'd think all pro players would maintain a certain level, but it seems not.

It's taken Lam two full seasons of mediocrity to get the skill levels that high. We are hopefully working on it but I don't see why people think Cullen would be able to fix things straight away especially as most of his best players were away for the start of the season.

I think we've seen progress this season and I'll be happy if we see more progress next year. The idea that we could go from a pretty average side to top class in one disrupted season is fanciful

[Flash Gordon]

Not sure that would make a whole lot of difference to be honest. Our back three are no great shakes but we're not able to give them enough decent ball to do anything with. The problem starts with the speed of ball we deliver at the breakdown and is then exacerbated along the backline due to poor skills and poor play-calling.

I would think that any changes in playing personnel would have to wait until the coaching is addressed. We have some top drawer guys who need to focus on skills levels and need coaches with systems that work. The current coaches may have it but they need to start showing it early next season.

Top Drawer like who?

Our backline is almost entirely international and we have Henshaw coming in - that should be enough to work with to win the Pro 12. We are predictable in attack and we have been vulnerable out wide to pace all season (as were Ireland in the RWC). Our averageness was acutely exposed in the Champions Cup and masked by the general standard in the league this year. I think one of the significant barrier to progress has also been Ben T'eo who still looks to gain a meter or two with power rather than throw a killer pass as teams double team him - I'm not sure he has the skill base to do that and that's part of a bigger issue in that our skills deficiency is a real problem - we can't retain the ball for more than 3 or 4 phases without dropping the ball, throwing a forward pass or losing it in contact.

In my opinion we need to make an intervention on the technical coaches to set this team up for success. The idea that a rookie head coach works with a rookie backline coach at a club that won the European Cup 3 times was just wrong.

[curates_egg]

Disappointing. There is an old line about not being able to win a game without a scrum which got totally disproved.

The forwards are ok but our back play is not at the races. The skill level drop since Joe's days is shocking. Leinster at their best from a few years ago would have won that game but now we had no idea how to stay in it.

Nail on head there. It was incredibly noticeable how many poor passes behind the man, knock ons and just generally poor errors we made, when compared to Conancht's crisp passing and Muldowney flinging balls around.
Skill level should be a simple enough thing to focus on and get right, and you'd think all pro players would maintain a certain level, but it seems not.

It's taken Lam two full seasons of mediocrity to get the skill levels that high. We are hopefully working on it but I don't see why people think Cullen would be able to fix things straight away especially as most of his best players were away for the start of the season.

I think we've seen progress this season and I'll be happy if we see more progress next year. The idea that we could go from a pretty average side to top class in one disrupted season is fanciful

This is exactly it. You should pin this into the thread on Leo's first year. Leo is a total novice who took over a team in potential freefall, which was missing 20 players for large parts of the season and topped the league.
Saturday was disappointing and skill levels have dropped since Schmidt was here but people who expect Leo to have taken over and have us playing like Connacht in one season, without having access to his first team squad are - as you say - being fanciful (at best).
The main problem I see is that the current coaching set-up doesn't have the credentials to really develop this area of our squad. It seems to be widely acknowledged that there is a coaching deficit, so you would sincerely hope that some recruitment in this area is going on in the off-season.

[Dave Cahill]

The reason our skills have dropped off in the last three years are because Leinster hasn't had a full time skills coach for the last three years. Its not hard maths.

[Fred Funk]

I would think that any changes in playing personnel would have to wait until the coaching is addressed. We have some top drawer guys who need to focus on skills levels and need coaches with systems that work. The current coaches may have it but they need to start showing it early next season.

Top Drawer like who?

Our backline is almost entirely international and we have Henshaw coming in - that should be enough to work with to win the Pro 12. We are predictable in attack and we have been vulnerable out wide to pace all season (as were Ireland in the RWC). Our averageness was acutely exposed in the Champions Cup and masked by the general standard in the league this year. I think one of the significant barrier to progress has also been Ben T'eo who still looks to gain a meter or two with power rather than throw a killer pass as teams double team him - I'm not sure he has the skill base to do that and that's part of a bigger issue in that our skills deficiency is a real problem - we can't retain the ball for more than 3 or 4 phases without dropping the ball, throwing a forward pass or losing it in contact.

In my opinion we need to make an intervention on the technical coaches to set this team up for success. The idea that a rookie head coach works with a rookie backline coach at a club that won the European Cup 3 times was just wrong.

Agree with most of that especially re T'eo, but I think there is a difference between players with international caps on form and those who are playing on past reputation.
We need inspiration from somewhere and a player charging 20 - 30 yards down the touchline would help.
Skills coach yes.

[riocard911]

The reason our skills have dropped off in the last three years are because Leinster hasn't had a full time skills coach for the last three years. Its not hard maths.

Nail on the head there, Dave. If even we the punters can see it, why is it taking those responsible for Leinster Rugby to rectify? The mind boggles!!!!

[wexford bohs]

Not looking for Harlem Grobetrotter type rugby, but that wasn't good enough on Sunday. Boring, predictable, one paced and easy to defend. Some of the basic ball handling errors were shocking.

Pat Lam and Connacht have a system and an identity in how they play. We don't have that. We had the best defence in Pro 12, but got blown away in Europe and that says alot about the standard of the Pro 12.

Leinster fans were outnumbered about 3/4 to 1 on Saturday. It became a running joke to say hello to Leinster fans in the pubs because there were so few of us.

[Gearzbox2]

Can't say that was the first thing that came to my mind yesterday! Lol.
That's not to dismiss merits of trying that as there are issues out wide. First thing for me though - get away from the dogmatic application of the drift defence.
Seeing Healy drop in to play 9 I was definitely also thinking pace, impact and 6-2 split? Anyone? Anyone?![/quote]

Yeah I'm cronins next door neighbour curate, it's actually comical that you dog him for his lineout throwing
Strauss was a disgrace, missed tackles, dropped balls, bad throws...I'm speaking facts, and Cronin was incredible when he came on and his throwing was spot on, don't care if I'm thrown off this poxy board but you are taking thru your arse
Somebody needs to pull you up before you pollute this place

Leo for selection wrong plain and simple[/quote]
Ah yes "dog him" with pesky facts! Cronin is the same curated egg he was four years ago; great around the paddock: poor to inconsistent at the basics in the set pieces. That's on him and his coaches- not critics or posters.

Your fan boy snarling impresses no one. But as you are obviously looking for the martyrdom of being barred. I'm afraid you'll have to try a bit harder, Limecat had a high level of tolerance for juvenile name calling.[/quote]

poor to inconsistent...that's how I'd describe Strauss on Saturday in the biggest game of the season
Cronin was all over the place when he came on, carried, thru well, scrummed well and hey even managed to get our only score
Artane seems to have it in for the guy along with a few others on here
Kirchner and Cronin should have started
Plain and simple...possibly furlong too, Ross walked around for 45 minutes and will be horribly found out in SA

[matt]

Genuine congratulations to Connacht
No complaints and it was uplifting to see their joy post match
On a side note and not being precious but I thought it was very poor show by Leinster not to come over to acknowledge our support on the day and over the season

If we had won this match we would have continued to ignore flair, pace and invention in favour of predictability, recycling and retaining some players out wide that have shown nothing all season. 2012 was the last year that we worried opposing backlines and that has got to change next season. Hopefully it changes Ireland's mindset as well but 7 months after Argentina showed us up there is no evidence that we have any interest in a more attacking game with some faster players encouraged to back themselves when they think something is on.

Understand the disappointment of the team but worrying if they did not bother to acknowledge the fans who showed a lot of commitment to get to Edinburgh.

[Flash Gordon]

The reason our skills have dropped off in the last three years are because Leinster hasn't had a full time skills coach for the last three years. Its not hard maths.

Nail on the head there, Dave. If even we the punters can see it, why is it taking those responsible for Leinster Rugby to rectify? The mind boggles!!!!

Suspect it may be a decision made upon economics. Interesting that Joe alluded to it in the press conference today talking about lads showing up and not having the skills he wanted and that 10 days wasn't enough to drill it in because it requires CONSTANT repetition!

[jezzer]

We don't have many, or any top drawer backs bar Isa. Sexton gives us top drawer once in four or five, Ringrose has top drawer potential. I don't believe Henshaw is top drawer but I know I'm in the minority.

Our skills have fallen off a cliff and Joe's Irish strategy has strangled us as well.

Pack looks in great shape.

[wprathead]

We don't have many, or any top drawer backs bar Isa. Sexton gives us top drawer once in four or five, Ringrose has top drawer potential. I don't believe Henshaw is top drawer but I know I'm in the minority.

Our skills have fallen off a cliff and Joe's Irish strategy has strangled us as well.

Pack looks in great shape.

Hopefully ye saw Saturday why Connacht fans want Robbie at 13, and not the battering ram Joe Schmidt uses him for at Irish level
Hopefully Cullen plays him at outside centre for ye next 3 years or it will be a massive waste of his talents

[cormac]

We don't have many, or any top drawer backs bar Isa. Sexton gives us top drawer once in four or five, Ringrose has top drawer potential. I don't believe Henshaw is top drawer but I know I'm in the minority.

Our skills have fallen off a cliff and Joe's Irish strategy has strangled us as well.

Pack looks in great shape.

Hopefully ye saw Saturday why Connacht fans want Robbie at 13, and not the battering ram Joe Schmidt uses him for at Irish level
Hopefully Cullen plays him at outside centre for ye next 3 years or it will be a massive waste of his talents

Right now I'm wondering if Henshaw at full-back might be the best use of our resources over the next few seasons

[johng]

I was very disappointed with Leinster's performance on Saturday.

I was even more disappointed with the performance of our fans after the game. They all streamed out past me as soon as the whistle went with less than 10% of them (in my vicinity) remaining for the trophy presentation and to cheer Connacht. They can't all have been rushing off somewhere. Would they have waited for the presentation if we won?

This is a fundamental of Rugby that gets drilled into you from U11s. You stay to congratulate the winner. No matter how unfair you feel the loss was. (and by fock was it fair)

In 2012 the vast majority of Ulster fans stayed with us in Twickenham and cheered and sang songs for ages afterwards.

They appreciated the Rugby we played to completely outclass them.

Did we do the same when we got completely outclassed? Did we fock!

Personally I was thrilled for Connacht to win so well for the first time in their history. And to see what it means to them. Like us in the same stadium 7 years ago. Despite my disappointment at our loss.

People give out when the media say our fans are spoiled. We demonstrated it on Saturday just in case there was any doubt.

[footrush]

I was very disappointed with Leinster's performance on Saturday.

I was even more disappointed with the performance of our fans after the game. They all streamed out past me as soon as the whistle went with less than 10% of them (in my vicinity) remaining for the trophy presentation and to cheer Connacht. They can't all have been rushing off somewhere. Would they have waited for the presentation if we won?

This is a fundamental of Rugby that gets drilled into you from U11s. You stay to congratulate the winner. No matter how unfair you feel the loss was. (and by fock was it fair)

In 2012 the vast majority of Ulster fans stayed with us in Twickenham and cheered and sang songs for ages afterwards.

They appreciated the Rugby we played to completely outclass them.

Did we do the same when we got completely outclassed? Did we fock!

Personally I was thrilled for Connacht to win so well for the first time in their history. And to see what it means to them. Like us in the same stadium 7 years ago. Despite my disappointment at our loss.

People give out when the media say our fans are spoiled. We demonstrated it on Saturday just in case there was any doubt.

Yep noticed this aswell, loved every minute of the celebration, pure unbridled emotion before during and after the game you can't beat it !.

[Xanthippe]

I was very disappointed with Leinster's performance on Saturday.

I was even more disappointed with the performance of our fans after the game. They all streamed out past me as soon as the whistle went with less than 10% of them (in my vicinity) remaining for the trophy presentation and to cheer Connacht. They can't all have been rushing off somewhere. Would they have waited for the presentation if we won?

This is a fundamental of Rugby that gets drilled into you from U11s. You stay to congratulate the winner. No matter how unfair you feel the loss was. (and by fock was it fair)

In 2012 the vast majority of Ulster fans stayed with us in Twickenham and cheered and sang songs for ages afterwards.

They appreciated the Rugby we played to completely outclass them.

Did we do the same when we got completely outclassed? Did we fock!

Personally I was thrilled for Connacht to win so well for the first time in their history. And to see what it means to them. Like us in the same stadium 7 years ago. Despite my disappointment at our loss.

People give out when the media say our fans are spoiled. We demonstrated it on Saturday just in case there was any doubt.

Yes John a lot of us were rushing to make a flight that we were in danger of missing due to the number of stoppages - and yes, if Leinster had won those of us on the 9pm flight would have had to miss the presentation.

That is the first time at ANY match (never mind a final) that I left the ground before the teams left the pitch and I hated doing it especially as it's now given others an opportunity to criticise.

[johng]

It was a general point deliberately designed not to personalise things. Which is why I said "They can't all have been rushing off somewhere."

I really don't want to get into every single persons reasons for leaving.