Mark McCall - Top Irish Coach?

[Ruckedtobits]

Only one Irish coach has collected silverware this year and it was an almost impossible double - European Cup and Premiership in England.

Mark McCall doesn't court publicity or need the spotlight. Yes his owner (s) have deep pockets and are suspected of breaching salary cap in past two years.

But, they play winning rugby, with some flair, despite having a number of toe-rags in their squad.

McCall has been off the Irish radar a good few years and has obviously learned during that period. Would now to a good time to sound him out about DoR roles in Irish rugby

[simonokeeffe]

I think theres 2 major qualifications here, 1 this is the first season they promised not to breach the cap

2, and this is the big one, he's a DOR in effect, Sorrell coaches backs, Gustard did defence, now Sanderson does as well as forwards. They also have skills, scrum, etc

Not saying he hasnt done well, our view also coloured by disaster up North, but hard to compare him to Jackman, Leo, Foley, more Humphries or O'Shea

Also matter of having 15 overseas players

[wixfjord]

I think theres 2 major qualifications here, 1 this is the first season they promised not to breach the cap

2, and this is the big one, he's a DOR in effect, Sorrell coaches backs, Gustard did defence, now Sanderson does as well as forwards. They also have skills, scrum, etc

Not saying he hasnt done well, our view also coloured by disaster up North, but hard to compare him to Jackman, Leo, Foley, more Humphries or O'Shea

Also matter of having 15 overseas players

This is overplayed a lot. The team that started the Champions Cup final was full of English, academy produced players. McCall and co have done a great job at this.

[simonokeeffe]

I think theres 2 major qualifications here, 1 this is the first season they promised not to breach the cap

2, and this is the big one, he's a DOR in effect, Sorrell coaches backs, Gustard did defence, now Sanderson does as well as forwards. They also have skills, scrum, etc

Not saying he hasnt done well, our view also coloured by disaster up North, but hard to compare him to Jackman, Leo, Foley, more Humphries or O'Shea

Also matter of having 15 overseas players

This is overplayed a lot. The team that started the Champions Cup final was full of English, academy produced players. McCall and co have done a great job at this.

Its a squad that got them to the finals, a squad that included Burger, Hamilton, Hargreaves, Brown, and lots of others that didnt start due to injury, injuries that let some of the academy guys in

Theyve some great academy produced players like M Vunipola, George, Itoje, Kruis, Fraser, Farrell, Goode
But theres also B Vunipola*, Wrigglesworth, Barrit, Hodgson, Ashton, that were signed for big money/pay increases from other clubs

IMO O'Shea did more with home grown/scouted players

*His parents made him move from Wasps so he'd be at the same club as his brother

[wixfjord]

I think theres 2 major qualifications here, 1 this is the first season they promised not to breach the cap

2, and this is the big one, he's a DOR in effect, Sorrell coaches backs, Gustard did defence, now Sanderson does as well as forwards. They also have skills, scrum, etc

Not saying he hasnt done well, our view also coloured by disaster up North, but hard to compare him to Jackman, Leo, Foley, more Humphries or O'Shea

Also matter of having 15 overseas players

This is overplayed a lot. The team that started the Champions Cup final was full of English, academy produced players. McCall and co have done a great job at this.

Its a squad that got them to the finals, a squad that included Burger, Hamilton, Hargreaves, Brown, and lots of others that didnt start

Theyve some great academy produced players like M Vunipola, George, Itoje, Kruis, Fraser, Farrell, Goode
But theres also B Vunipola*, Wrigglesworth, Barrit, Hodgson, Ashton, that were signed for big money/pay increases from other clubs

IMO O'Shea did more with home grown/scouted players

*His parents made him move from Wasps so he'd be at the same club as his brother

It's no worse than most other English or French clubs though, so it's not a stick to beat him with.
Your counting other English players who haven't come through the academy is also misleading. That means we could count Ross, Reddan, Cronin, Mick K out?

O'Shea has done lots of good youth stuff with Quins, but that doesn't negate McCall's brilliant success over the last few years.

[simonokeeffe]

Not a single Irish player moved to Leinster for a pay increase, they werent allowed between provinces; Ashton didnt move there to be further away from his home

He has done well and theyve expanded their game, so am not saying he's Gary Ella by any means

But who would make a better international coach or make it work on less resources, O'Shea or McCall? My money is on O'Shea

Its like could Mourinho coach well at international level or win a league with Leicester?

If McCall can keep it up it would be interesting to see if he goes for Irish job or another international one

[wixfjord]

Not a single Irish player moved to Leinster for a pay increase, they werent allowed between provinces; Ashton didnt move there to be further away from his home

He has done well and theyve expanded their game, so am not saying he's Gary Ella by any means

But who would make a better international coach or make it work on less resources, O'Shea or McCall? My money is on O'Shea

Its like could Mourinho coach well at international level or win a league with Leicester?

If McCall can keep it up it would be interesting to see if he goes for Irish job or another international one

No, but they're English players you've referenced.

This isn't a COS v McCall question, but by all objective measurement, McCall is the more successful coach.

[simonokeeffe]

Not a single Irish player moved to Leinster for a pay increase, they werent allowed between provinces; Ashton didnt move there to be further away from his home

He has done well and theyve expanded their game, so am not saying he's Gary Ella by any means

But who would make a better international coach or make it work on less resources, O'Shea or McCall? My money is on O'Shea

Its like could Mourinho coach well at international level or win a league with Leicester?

If McCall can keep it up it would be interesting to see if he goes for Irish job or another international one

No, but they're English players you've referenced.

This isn't a COS v McCall question, but by all objective measurement, McCall is the more successful coach.

Its old money v new money
He cant have done any more than has been asked of him, but will be interesting if he can when more is asked

If he keeps it up he will be a contender to take over from Joe (if interested)

Also bear in mind I f*****g hate Saracens

[hugonaut]

He has done a fantastic job. They win a huge percentage of their games in all conditions - wet or dry, winter or summer, manupathon or throw-around, grass or artificial. They play a very tough, hard-nosed brand up front in every game and can move it around when they need to in the backs or play an equally hard-nosed game if it's required. They also have a really coherent and obvious team spirit. None of that happens by accident.

[Raydollard]

strange but if Leinster did all the things that Hugonaut says, then he'd be a great coach. But he doesn't, so he's not.

[simonokeeffe]

He has done a fantastic job. They win a huge percentage of their games in all conditions - wet or dry, winter or summer, manupathon or throw-around, grass or artificial. They play a very tough, hard-nosed brand up front in every game and can move it around when they need to in the backs or play an equally hard-nosed game if it's required. They also have a really coherent and obvious team spirit. None of that happens by accident.

He did well transitioning from Venter's reign to his own. Will be interesting to see if he now keeps it up with scrum and defence coaches gone to England

McCall is the Bill Belichick of rugby

[rooster]

McCall was the last Ulster coach to win silverware here.