Centres through the Leinster System/Academy since 2010

[goreyguy]

Eamonn Sheridan(27) - Oyonnax
Noel Reid(26) - Leinster squad player
Colm O'Shea(25) - leaving Leinster, future unclear
Brendan Macken(25) - Wasps
Jordan Coghlan(23) - playing backrow for Nottingham
Steve Crosbie(23) - leaving Leinster, future unclear
Tom Daly(23) - Leinster squad player
Tom Farrell(22) - Bedford Blues
Harrison Brewer(21) - playing club rugby in NZ as a backrow
Garry Ringrose(21) - Leinster 1st choice

Thank god for Ringrose who was prodigious, because they've done a poor job with the rest.

[cormac]

Eamonn Sheridan(27) - Oyonnax
Noel Reid(26) - Leinster squad player
Colm O'Shea(25) - leaving Leinster, future unclear
Brendan Macken(25) - Wasps
Steve Crosbie(23) - leaving Leinster, future unclear
Tom Daly(23) - Leinster squad player
Tom Farrell(22) - Bedford Blues
Harrison Brewer(21) - playing club rugby in NZ as a backrow
Garry Ringrose(21) - Leinster 1st choice

Thank god for Ringrose who was prodigious, because they've done a poor job with the rest.

None of those who've left have exactly gone on to prove that Leinster were wrong to release them and I'd be surprised if any of those leaving this year will make us regret their departure. Suggests to me that the problem is as much with the pipeline as it is with anything Leinster Rugby are doing when they get their hands on the players.

[goreyguy]

Eamonn Sheridan(27) - Oyonnax
Noel Reid(26) - Leinster squad player
Colm O'Shea(25) - leaving Leinster, future unclear
Brendan Macken(25) - Wasps
Steve Crosbie(23) - leaving Leinster, future unclear
Tom Daly(23) - Leinster squad player
Tom Farrell(22) - Bedford Blues
Harrison Brewer(21) - playing club rugby in NZ as a backrow
Garry Ringrose(21) - Leinster 1st choice

Thank god for Ringrose who was prodigious, because they've done a poor job with the rest.

None of those who've left have exactly gone on to prove that Leinster were wrong to release them and I'd be surprised if any of those leaving this year will make us regret their departure. Suggests to me that the problem is as much with the pipeline as it is with anything Leinster Rugby are doing when they get their hands on the players.

leinster rugby are responsible for developing players while they are in the "pipeline" so that when they reach the professional level they aren't found wanting or don't have a huge skill deficiency. They get their hands on players from the age of 15/16 and this list does not reflect well on the job they are doing in developing these players.

Also I've never claimed the problems leinster are having with developing backs in solely on the professional coaches and what they are doing in the academy, although what they are doing in the academy has to be questioned given how poorly its performing in upskilling backs especially in comparison to Connacht.

Leinster have had many more underage international centres than the rest of the provinces but yet have struggled to produce any quality homegrown centres.

[Flash Gordon]

Think a huge part of the reason for this situation was the existence of the greatest center partnership in Irish rugby history with D'Arcy and O'Driscoll. Over the years, good centers like Andy Trimble and Luke Fitzgerald were pushed to alternative positions because that road was blocked. Eoin O'Malley was also part of that equation too of course.

[goreyguy]

Think a huge part of the reason for this situation was the existence of the greatest center partnership in Irish rugby history with D'Arcy and O'Driscoll. Over the years, good centers like Andy Trimble and Luke Fitzgerald were pushed to alternative positions because that road was blocked. Eoin O'Malley was also part of that equation too of course.

Trimble was pushed to wing because he didn't have the awareness or skillset for 13.

Luke Fitz & O'Malley are what ifs.. Fitz's best position has been wing if he had moved to centre younger maybe he'd be a top class centre but he isn't so we will never know.

It still doesn't account for the poor player development that has gone on since 2010. There was plenty of paying time to go around for talented young centres in the past 5 years.. leinster have just struggled to produce and develop players at those positions.

[paddyor]

Think a huge part of the reason for this situation was the existence of the greatest center partnership in Irish rugby history with D'Arcy and O'Driscoll. Over the years, good centers like Andy Trimble and Luke Fitzgerald were pushed to alternative positions because that road was blocked. Eoin O'Malley was also part of that equation too of course.

Trimble was pushed to wing because he didn't have the awareness or skillset for 13.

Luke Fitz & O'Malley are what ifs.. Fitz's best position has been wing if he had moved to centre younger maybe he'd be a top class centre but he isn't so we will never know.

It still doesn't account for the poor player development that has gone on since 2010. There was plenty of paying time to go around for talented young centres in the past 5 years.. leinster have just struggled to produce and develop players at those positions.

I often wonder why we never gave Macken a shot....or EOM....or....

[COYBIB]

Harrison Brewer(21) - playing club rugby in NZ as a backrow

Wait, what? Is he gone or is that a summer thing?

Jesus, I couldn't believe it when we didn't bring Peter Robb in when we drafted a load of centres into the academy, that would be unbelievable if our only return is Ringrose (all be it a great player).

I don't know if it's since McEntee left or if it was always prevalent, but our academy selections are absolutely brutal. We always seem to back the wrong horse. I know there' an argument for players go elsewhere, get game time and therefore become far superior to our academy prospects, but even that is hardly a mitigating circumstance and lends credence to the fact we're making a complete f%~k up of the substantial resources at hand and have been for a while.

[Xanthippe]

Harrison Brewer(21) - playing club rugby in NZ as a backrow

Wait, what? Is he gone or is that a summer thing?

I thought it was only a summer thing too - one of the other players made a comment about it a couple of weeks ago.

[simonokeeffe]

Harrison Brewer(21) - playing club rugby in NZ as a backrow

Wait, what? Is he gone or is that a summer thing?

I thought it was only a summer thing too - one of the other players made a comment about it a couple of weeks ago.

Heres most of the article I first saw it in, seems pretty permanent especially if he wants to play the NPC, thats 2 years of non stop rugby if he did come back

Stuff - stuff.co.nz
Harrison Brewer trades Ireland for Manawatu as he shifts to loose forward

Harrison Brewer, the son of 32-test All Blacks loose forward Mike Brewer, played his first game for Te Kawau as a loose forward last weekend, less than a week after he arrived in the country.

The former Ireland under 20s midfielder had been playing in Irish powerhouse Leinster's academy team.

Brewer lived in Ireland with his mother and sister, but is now based in Foxton with his father.

So he made the decision to move back to the forwards, a decision his father supported.

"I was never convinced [about him playing as a midfielder] because I knew that he would end up getting pretty big," he said. "His speed is very good for a loose forward, but would be average for the top professional end at midfield.

It was the switch in position that sparked his desire to move to New Zealand.

"He was out here a couple of years ago with the Irish under 20s and when he left he said 'You guys play a different kind of sport altogether down here'," his father said.

"Because he wanted to shift into the backrow he said there was no better place to come and learn that trade than New Zealand."

Mike Brewer, who spent two years as assistant coach of Scotland and a season in charge of English side Sale, said he tried to let his son do his own thing, but admitted his shift to loose forward would help him giving tips.

"I can give him a little bit more advice than when he was playing at second five," he said.

He said his son hoped to trade the green of Ireland for the green and white of the Turbos.

"He is going to see how he gets on and try and make the Manawatu team," he said.

"If he does not make the Manawatu team, he might try and get into a Heartland Championship team and get a bit of experience there."

[Dave Cahill]

Think a huge part of the reason for this situation was the existence of the greatest center partnership in Irish rugby history with D'Arcy and O'Driscoll. Over the years, good centers like Andy Trimble and Luke Fitzgerald were pushed to alternative positions because that road was blocked. Eoin O'Malley was also part of that equation too of course.

The idea behind the thread doens't really stand up to any kind of scrutiny. In 2010 Leinster had O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, O'Malley, Fitzgerald and McFadden in situ. Berne had been signed as a 5/8s. Macken made his debut that season, Madigan was starting to make the match day squads. Why in the name of jaysus would they want to be developing centres back then? There were no berths for them. Instead we concentrated on the positions we needed players in, developing Props and back row players - they were the two positions where we traditionally had a lot of imports and a high rate of attrition.

Now if the thread was titled "Centres through the Leinster Academy since 2014" or somesuch, then it would have some validity.

[Flash Gordon]

Think a huge part of the reason for this situation was the existence of the greatest center partnership in Irish rugby history with D'Arcy and O'Driscoll. Over the years, good centers like Andy Trimble and Luke Fitzgerald were pushed to alternative positions because that road was blocked. Eoin O'Malley was also part of that equation too of course.

The idea behind the thread doens't really stand up to any kind of scrutiny. In 2010 Leinster had O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, O'Malley, Fitzgerald and McFadden in situ. Berne had been signed as a 5/8s. Macken made his debut that season, Madigan was starting to make the match day squads. Why in the name of jaysus would they want to be developing centres back then? There were no berths for them. Instead we concentrated on the positions we needed players in, developing Props and back row players - they were the two positions where we traditionally had a lot of imports and a high rate of attrition.

Now if the thread was titled "Centres through the Leinster Academy since 2014" or somesuch, then it would have some validity.

Got to agree with that.

[goreyguy]

They'd have been developing centres because that would have meant there was not a gap when BOD, O'Malley and Darcy retired & McFadden moved to the wing.
They have largely failed to develop centres since 2010 this is reflected in the quality of the backline over recent years and the need to sign players at those postions to fill the gaps caused by this poor development.

Luckily Ringrose has come through at a very young age, but it still remains a fact that leinster have failed to develop high quality centres this decade. To suggest there hasn't been a need for Leinster to develop more homegrown top quality centres is bizarre, ideally that player development would have begun in 2010 and come to frution over the past 3 years.

[jezzer]

You have to wonder how Ronaldson didn't feed through the Academy into our senior squad.

[goreyguy]

You have to wonder how Ronaldson didn't feed through the Academy into our senior squad.

poor talent evaluation/spotting.

probably better of working with coaches in Connacht anyway, same for Niyi.

[simonokeeffe]

You have to wonder how Ronaldson didn't feed through the Academy into our senior squad.

Did he play for any Leinster or Ireland underage teams? Dont think he did; flew under a lot if radars til/possible late bloomer at outhalf, even later to centre

And sure he only went to Kilkenny like

[jezzer]

You have to wonder how Ronaldson didn't feed through the Academy into our senior squad.

Did he play for any Leinster or Ireland underage teams? Dont think he did; flew under a lot if radars til/possible late bloomer at outhalf, even later to centre

And sure he only went to Kilkenny like

He wasn't really a late bloomer. That Kilkenny team knocked Ian Madigan's Rock out of the Cup in the 1/4s before getting beaten by Noel Reid's Michaels in the semis. Ronaldson was the main man. As you said, he was in a backwater school as far as the blazerati are concerned and he came through along with Mads and Reid and others. But he was always talented. Lit it up with Lansdowne in the AIL and has been stellar for Connacht as a 12. He was a miss, as far as I'm concerned, for the Academy. These scouts and developemnt guys are paid to spot the talent and separate the sheep from the Conrad Smith's.

But I can't get too down on the Academy for the situation we're in as far as midfield options go. We have Reid, Ringrose and the young lads coming through like Daly and co., to go with Henshaw and maybe Luke for the odd game. I'm more worried about the wing spot. Scrum Half is a perrennial disgrace at Leinster.

[goreyguy]

You have to wonder how Ronaldson didn't feed through the Academy into our senior squad.

Did he play for any Leinster or Ireland underage teams? Dont think he did; flew under a lot if radars til/possible late bloomer at outhalf, even later to centre

And sure he only went to Kilkenny like

But I can't get too down on the Academy for the situation we're in as far as midfield options go. We have Reid, Ringrose and the young lads coming through like Daly and co., to go with Henshaw and maybe Luke for the odd game. I'm more worried about the wing spot. Scrum Half is a perrennial disgrace at Leinster.

Daly will be 23 and has yet to make his debut, hardly screams as a future 1st choice player for Leinster, maybe he will be a good squad player but even then i'm far from convinced he will be upto it. And the co. seem to be leaving Leinster:
Crosbie - leaving Leinster afaik
Farrell - Bedford Blues
Brewer - moved to backrow, playing in NZ

Apart from Ringrose, who was a prodigy and very advanced when entering the academy, the academy has failed to take talented underage centres and develop them into potential 1st choice players for Leinster. From Eoin O'Malley to Garry Ringrose there was 8 centres through the academy setup and the best of them has been Noel Reid, who is an exciting attacking player but ultimately too flawed in defense to be relied upon as 1st choice.

Now Leinster have two more talented u20 centres, will the academy be capable of developing Conor O'Brien and Jimmy O'Brien? Neither are as advanced as Ringrose at the same age, hopefully that doesn't doom them to the scrap heap due an inability to develop them as has done with many centres before Ringrose.

[simonokeeffe]

You have to wonder how Ronaldson didn't feed through the Academy into our senior squad.

Did he play for any Leinster or Ireland underage teams? Dont think he did; flew under a lot if radars til/possible late bloomer at outhalf, even later to centre

And sure he only went to Kilkenny like

He wasn't really a late bloomer. That Kilkenny team knocked Ian Madigan's Rock out of the Cup in the 1/4s before getting beaten by Noel Reid's Michaels in the semis. Ronaldson was the main man. As you said, he was in a backwater school as far as the blazerati are concerned and he came through along with Mads and Reid and others. But he was always talented. Lit it up with Lansdowne in the AIL and has been stellar for Connacht as a 12. He was a miss, as far as I'm concerned, for the Academy. These scouts and developemnt guys are paid to spot the talent and separate the sheep from the Conrad Smith's.

But I can't get too down on the Academy for the situation we're in as far as midfield options go. We have Reid, Ringrose and the young lads coming through like Daly and co., to go with Henshaw and maybe Luke for the odd game. I'm more worried about the wing spot. Scrum Half is a perrennial disgrace at Leinster.

He was an outhalf until very recently and in that period we were doing very well there Sexton, Madigan, McKinley

[sunshiner1]

He was an outhalf until very recently and in that period we were doing very well there Sexton, Madigan, McKinley

Agreed. He also had a trial with Bath in 06/07 and they passed on him as well so obviously he wasn't a dead cert. Lam converted him to a 12 and he's done very well but if he wasn't IQ I'm not sure that Connacht would have taken a punt on him either.

[goreyguy]

He was an outhalf until very recently and in that period we were doing very well there Sexton, Madigan, McKinley

Yeah they had Madigan(1989) and McKinley(1989) over him when his academy time came, aswell as in his 1990 age group Brian Kingston and Noel Reid were playing 10 ahead of him for Leinster u20.

When he was performing in the AIL he should have been looked at, but really he was better off in Connacht where he has gotten better coaching and more gametime opportunities.