hugonaut wrote:Charlie Connolly the tighthead isn't getting an academy spot? Would have thought that he was going to be a sure thing, looks like a very good No3.
Maybe he will earn one at the world cup? Altho you'd think Smyth would know everything he needs to know as he is connollys ex schools coach.
With Aungier maybe they dont want to offer two tightheads academy deals?
Seems rather silly.. only 4 players from 1997 age group seem to have been offered academy deals. Which is way less than usual.
With only 1 year contracts being offered its not exactly a huge commitment to make to a player and connolly has been the most impressive TH at this level since furlong. For instance i'd rate Connolly ahead of Heffernan right now and certainly two years down the line.
Almost reads as if a Leinster PR guy wrote that, Porter switch may work out but describing his performances at tighthead for UCD as a string of impressive performances is being very generous based on how he fared in the scrum against Trinity a few weeks back.
I wonder will one of him or Loughman move clubs now or will one always be required by Leinster?
As Mike Ross says in the piece, he's progressing and has received "flying lessons" from Peter Dooley.
The transition is never a straight line and he'll learn that a lapse in concentration can always cause a blip. Unlike the Loose-head side, you can't just step left or collapse down to ground. You're trapped between opposition tight-head and hooker in front and your own second-row and flanker behind. If however you've a strong core and back, you become a pylon to transmit their drive and your own through those two opponents.
Porter is very strong in legs and upper body and arms. With a good attitude to learning he can handle this transition and add to our THPs roster. It's a great decision for him, for Leinster and maybe ultimately for Ireland.
As Mike Ross says in the piece, he's progressing and has received "flying lessons" from Peter Dooley.
The transition is never a straight line and he'll learn that a lapse in concentration can always cause a blip. Unlike the Loose-head side, you can't just step left or collapse down to ground. You're trapped between opposition tight-head and hooker in front and your own second-row and flanker behind. If however you've a strong core and back, you become a pylon to transmit their drive and your own through those two opponents.
Porter is very strong in legs and upper body and arms. With a good attitude to learning he can handle this transition and add to our THPs roster. It's a great decision for him, for Leinster and maybe ultimately for Ireland.
Almost reads as if a Leinster PR guy wrote that, Porter switch may work out but describing his performances at tighthead for UCD as a string of impressive performances is being very generous based on how he fared in the scrum against Trinity a few weeks back.
I wonder will one of him or Loughman move clubs now or will one always be required by Leinster?
It doesn't matter what level you are at, trying to switch over is a bitch. Having the opportunity to learn against semi pro's in the AIL is fantastic. These are experienced lads who know what they are about. If Porter can move on from surviving to dominating at that level he will then be ready for Pro12.
Almost reads as if a Leinster PR guy wrote that, Porter switch may work out but describing his performances at tighthead for UCD as a string of impressive performances is being very generous based on how he fared in the scrum against Trinity a few weeks back.
I wonder will one of him or Loughman move clubs now or will one always be required by Leinster?
It doesn't matter what level you are at, trying to switch over is a bitch. Having the opportunity to learn against semi pro's in the AIL is fantastic. These are experienced lads who know what they are about. If Porter can move on from surviving to dominating at that level he will then be ready for Pro12.
I'm just pointing out that the narrative in that piece, suggests he hasn't struggled for UCD, which isn't true.
The game against Trinity was ugly for him, but I guess that's to be expected, he was up against a very good club prop in Eric O'Sullivan, who I believe might be headed to Ulster.
hugonaut wrote:Charlie Connolly the tighthead isn't getting an academy spot? Would have thought that he was going to be a sure thing, looks like a very good No3.
Maybe he will earn one at the world cup? Altho you'd think Smyth would know everything he needs to know as he is connollys ex schools coach.
With Aungier maybe they dont want to offer two tightheads academy deals?
Seems rather silly.. only 4 players from 1997 age group seem to have been offered academy deals. Which is way less than usual.
With only 1 year contracts being offered its not exactly a huge commitment to make to a player and connolly has been the most impressive TH at this level since furlong. For instance i'd rate Connolly ahead of Heffernan right now and certainly two years down the line.
The only thing I can think of is they've a limited capacity and possibly Aungier was getting attention from other teams.
hugonaut wrote:Charlie Connolly the tighthead isn't getting an academy spot? Would have thought that he was going to be a sure thing, looks like a very good No3.
Maybe he will earn one at the world cup? Altho you'd think Smyth would know everything he needs to know as he is connollys ex schools coach.
With Aungier maybe they dont want to offer two tightheads academy deals?
Seems rather silly.. only 4 players from 1997 age group seem to have been offered academy deals. Which is way less than usual.
With only 1 year contracts being offered its not exactly a huge commitment to make to a player and connolly has been the most impressive TH at this level since furlong. For instance i'd rate Connolly ahead of Heffernan right now and certainly two years down the line.
The only thing I can think of is they've a limited capacity and possibly Aungier was getting attention from other teams.
Limited by what? one year contracts? It's a small financial commitment offering a player an academy contract.
The academy is set to be smaller this year than last anyway.
It appears just to be a personally decision by Smyth, who chose Aungier over Connolly. Which in the long run, is probably a fair call, but risky given Connolly has proven himself at a higher level than Aungier.
Both should be given deals and see how they develop.
Right now who is a better prospect as a TH prop? Andrew Porter or Charlie Connolly?
mildlyinterested wrote:
Maybe he will earn one at the world cup? Altho you'd think Smyth would know everything he needs to know as he is connollys ex schools coach.
With Aungier maybe they dont want to offer two tightheads academy deals?
Seems rather silly.. only 4 players from 1997 age group seem to have been offered academy deals. Which is way less than usual.
With only 1 year contracts being offered its not exactly a huge commitment to make to a player and connolly has been the most impressive TH at this level since furlong. For instance i'd rate Connolly ahead of Heffernan right now and certainly two years down the line.
The only thing I can think of is they've a limited capacity and possibly Aungier was getting attention from other teams.
Limited by what? one year contracts? It's a small financial commitment offering a player an academy contract.
The academy is set to be smaller this year than last anyway.
It appears just to be a personally decision by Smyth, who chose Aungier over Connolly. Which in the long run, is probably a fair call, but risky given Connolly has proven himself at a higher level than Aungier.
Both should be given deals and see how they develop.
Right now who is a better prospect as a TH prop? Andrew Porter or Charlie Connolly?
It might be simply a case of Leinster having first world problems. Next year they'll probably have Furlong, Bent, Porter, Heffernan, Loughman and Aungier between senior and academy squads. Michael Bent just turned 31 this week. Thats not old for a prop especially one who doesn't have a lot of mileage. At 24 Furlong is just getting started and he is older than the others.
I'd agree with you in that I think Connolly should be brought in. Maybe they want to see how he goes in the U20 world championship. They usually bring a few in after that.
It might be simply a case of Leinster having first world problems. Next year they'll probably have Furlong, Bent, Porter, Heffernan, Loughman and Aungier between senior and academy squads. Michael Bent just turned 31 this week. Thats not old for a prop especially one who doesn't have a lot of mileage. At 24 Furlong is just getting started and he is older than the others.
I'd agree with you in that I think Connolly should be brought in. Maybe they want to see how he goes in the U20 world championship. They usually bring a few in after that.
Heffernan/Loughman/Porter aren't exactly proven top prospects at TH.
The use of language is a bit of a giveaway, "proven" and "prospect" are contrasting concepts. All three players are prospects who may have very different development requirements at this point and thus differing paths to senior careers if they do make it.
Certainly, each of them have shown sufficient progress to warrant the further investment of time. The normal Irish supply rate of quality THPs has traditionally been about one per decade. With the current seam, we should just keep processing.
Porter is not a great scrummager yet! Against any of the top 4 AIL teams he has struggled as has Loughman. Connolly went well in 6 nations but again at club level he has been ok but in no way dominant. Tightheads take time and are the cornerstone of a team. Aungier is raw and unproven and promoting a young prop so early is not always wise he should prove himself with his club in the AIL next season and see how he goes. Heffernan won't make the grade and search is on for top Tighthead to come through the system getting Mike Ross in at academy level for the young props would be a positive step in doing that.
Armchair wrote:Porter is not a great scrummager yet! Against any of the top 4 AIL teams he has struggled as has Loughman. Connolly went well in 6 nations but again at club level he has been ok but in no way dominant. Tightheads take time and are the cornerstone of a team. Aungier is raw and unproven and promoting a young prop so early is not always wise he should prove himself with his club in the AIL next season and see how he goes. Heffernan won't make the grade and search is on for top Tighthead to come through the system getting Mike Ross in at academy level for the young props would be a positive step in doing that.
How can you be so sure about Heffernan, when you say yourself that THs take time to develop and even the academy guys struggle sometimes at AIL level when in their early 20s?
"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Armchair wrote:Porter is not a great scrummager yet! Against any of the top 4 AIL teams he has struggled as has Loughman. Connolly went well in 6 nations but again at club level he has been ok but in no way dominant. Tightheads take time and are the cornerstone of a team. Aungier is raw and unproven and promoting a young prop so early is not always wise he should prove himself with his club in the AIL next season and see how he goes. Heffernan won't make the grade and search is on for top Tighthead to come through the system getting Mike Ross in at academy level for the young props would be a positive step in doing that.
How can you be so sure about Heffernan, when you say yourself that THs take time to develop and even the academy guys struggle sometimes at AIL level when in their early 20s?
Heffernan has had loads of time two years sub academy before he got full academy. I have seen enough of him to make up my mind, he wouldn't be in the top 5 tight heads in the AIL even
Armchair wrote:Porter is not a great scrummager yet! Against any of the top 4 AIL teams he has struggled as has Loughman. Connolly went well in 6 nations but again at club level he has been ok but in no way dominant. Tightheads take time and are the cornerstone of a team. Aungier is raw and unproven and promoting a young prop so early is not always wise he should prove himself with his club in the AIL next season and see how he goes. Heffernan won't make the grade and search is on for top Tighthead to come through the system getting Mike Ross in at academy level for the young props would be a positive step in doing that.
Probably would have a slightly more positive view on his scrummaging but no Irish prop is going to be the finished article at his age given that he only left school in 2014 and given Irish rules, that;s effectively when his scrummaging education began.
Armchair wrote:Porter is not a great scrummager yet! Against any of the top 4 AIL teams he has struggled as has Loughman. Connolly went well in 6 nations but again at club level he has been ok but in no way dominant. Tightheads take time and are the cornerstone of a team. Aungier is raw and unproven and promoting a young prop so early is not always wise he should prove himself with his club in the AIL next season and see how he goes. Heffernan won't make the grade and search is on for top Tighthead to come through the system getting Mike Ross in at academy level for the young props would be a positive step in doing that.
Probably would have a slightly more positive view on his scrummaging but no Irish prop is going to be the finished article at his age given that he only left school in 2014 and given Irish rules, that;s effectively when his scrummaging education began.
Of all the prospects Porter is best placed to succeed, he has the size just needs some good coaching over the next few years to learn the position and be a dominant scrummager confident he will get there but will be a year or two before or if he is to get to Champions Cup Standard
Armchair wrote:Porter is not a great scrummager yet! Against any of the top 4 AIL teams he has struggled as has Loughman. Connolly went well in 6 nations but again at club level he has been ok but in no way dominant. Tightheads take time and are the cornerstone of a team. Aungier is raw and unproven and promoting a young prop so early is not always wise he should prove himself with his club in the AIL next season and see how he goes. Heffernan won't make the grade and search is on for top Tighthead to come through the system getting Mike Ross in at academy level for the young props would be a positive step in doing that.
How can you be so sure about Heffernan, when you say yourself that THs take time to develop and even the academy guys struggle sometimes at AIL level when in their early 20s?
Heffernan has had loads of time two years sub academy before he got full academy. I have seen enough of him to make up my mind, he wouldn't be in the top 5 tight heads in the AIL even
@Armchair is very definitive about Heffernan but others would disagree and see many Ross-like characteristics about his development (including training for anything other than scrums). Talking to friends in TCRFC who have watched him closely this year tells me that when he is motivated (concentrating?) he can handle most of the LHPs in the AIL and although Terenure scrum suffered a fair bit this year, that was a function of lack of size in 2nd row and no depth in front-row.
Heffernon is a competitor who doesn't train well but will come through. Another summer season in Southern Hemisphere will be productive.
Loughman is potentially the most talented of the three with excellent ball skills (he was originally a centre in Athy) and proven ability at LHP as well as tight head. He has had a very unfortunate run of injuries but has gathered a lot of experience.
Watch these two, as well as Porter who has already emerged due to his phenomenal strength and family experience at top-class rugby, when they get past 25. This is the age at which "normal" props emerge from their cocoons.
Good to see Will Connors and a few of the academy backs are heading off to play 7s. It should help develop their timing, skills and reading of the game
leinsterforever wrote:Good to see Will Connors and a few of the academy backs are heading off to play 7s. It should help develop their timing, skills and reading of the game
Not really. Its a waste of time that will only be detrimental to their careers.
